Mainline hiring

[goingmissed]

You need to realize the Sunwing pilots will be WestJet pilots arguing that they should be second class pilots will be a poor way to start merger talks. Perhaps those of us that have been through mergers before both realize the complexity of the process and are mature enough to understand that the next time the shoe could be on the other foot.

Arguing that Encore pilots aren't already WestJet pilots and considering them second class pilots is a poor way to talk about your coworkers.

[SWALLOW_v_ALPA]

Arguing that Encore pilots aren't already WestJet pilots and considering them second class pilots is a poor way to talk about your coworkers.

I have just read JS's claim against the Association and I understand that his argument essentially turns on precisely the point you raise: his contention is that WestJet Encore pilots are not WestJet pilots.

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[quote=sarg post_id=<a href="tel:1195052">1195052</a> time=<a href="tel:1652819896">1652819896</a> user_id=5055]
You need to realize the Sunwing pilots will be WestJet pilots arguing that they should be second class pilots will be a poor way to start merger talks. Perhaps those of us that have been through mergers before both realize the complexity of the process and are mature enough to understand that the next time the shoe could be on the other foot.

Arguing that Encore pilots aren't already WestJet pilots and considering them second class pilots is a poor way to talk about your coworkers.
[/quote]

You just nailed the issue. This all revolves around common employer. If your not common employer your not Westjet airlines. It’s up to encore pilots what class they’d like to be. The same argument the air ontario pilots had with air Canada. That didn’t work out well for them.

[truecolours]

Unfortunately (or not depending on your position), an arbitrator has already ruled on the “are Encore pilots WestJet pilots” debate. The layoff pay grievance has finally given us an answer.

Jumping over to the PTA and lawyer discussion. If you are willing to use a majority vote to defend the PTA, would that not mean another majority vote could un-do (or reorganize) the seniority list?

I think the pta vote might be happening this time around. There are a growing number of former PTA supporters who have voiced opposition to it in light on the 230 agenda sent out last week.

[aerobod]

In the end, the situation may just be status quo, as there are good arguments for Onex to keep WS and WG separate, so the pilot groups would stay separate, too.

The benefit to the merger would be price and schedule coordination (assuming no monopoly on a given route) and the ability to handle IROPS with aircraft from the other operator. WestJet and Sunwing Vacations require mainly point-to-point flying in winter to sun destinations and bargain east-west flying in the summer that can easily be fulfilled by WG (perhaps with a name and brand change to SunJet ). WO pilots could be re-absorbed into the WS future growth and WG could be re-branded Swoop and take on the WO fleet, too, recruiting to fill the WO pilot seats that were vacated when those pilots moved back to WS. Or Swoop could disappear as a brand and Sunwing would be retained as the ULCC unit.

There are several solutions not involving merging any pilot group or changing any current agreements that would also meet the merger needs. One interesting scenario with no member switching bargaining units is Sunwing re-branded as Swoop and absorbing the almost identically equipped Swoop fleet, that would then mean besides a paint and logo job, Swoop would then be WG using the WG operating certificate.

[SWALLOW_v_ALPA]

I have reached out to colleagues familiar with Canadian labor law and the consensus seems to favor a common employer attempt by a labor union or a corporation party to the purchase. I suspect, from a commercial perspective, operating the entities separately may not achieve the desired economies of scale.

Canada would seem a challenging market for an airline compared to the USA with our population density. I am not an airline expert, but I think you are likely to see some sort of merged operation(s). Efficiency is everything in business.

The situation with the civil suit against ALPA is unique. Here in the USA, the matter would have remained, most likely, statutorily bound to the RLA with the assistance of the NMB before heading to the court for adjudication.

While I am not familiar with ALPA's policies, if JS can substantiate the seniority policy, the Constitutional argument he presented seems valid, while rare, at least.

[TeePeeCreeper]

I have reached out to colleagues familiar with Canadian labor law and the consensus seems to favor a common employer attempt by a labor union or a corporation party to the purchase. I suspect, from a commercial perspective, operating the entities separately may not achieve the desired economies of scale.

Canada would seem a challenging market for an airline compared to the USA with our population density. I am not an airline expert, but I think you are likely to see some sort of merged operation(s). Efficiency is everything in business.

The situation with the civil suit against ALPA is unique. Here in the USA, the matter would have remained, most likely, statutorily bound to the RLA with the assistance of the NMB before heading to the court for adjudication.

While I am not familiar with ALPA's policies, if JS can substantiate the seniority policy, the Constitutional argument he presented seems valid, while rare, at least.

How many different user names can a poster have on this site?

8, 9? By my count…

I don’t have a dog in this race but I do care about my colleges that do.

“I am not familiar with ALPA policies” should say plenty about this poster.

Food for thought!

[SWALLOW_v_ALPA]

I appreciate the concern and if it were true it might being suspicion to my posts. As it is, my significant other is a Sunwing pilot, and he might be surprised to find out I am a man.

Following the annoncement of the merger, we both were actually excited as it will make his commute from here in the USA to his Toronto base much easier, given Westjet's network.

He brought up his concerns regarding the merger to me some time ago. While my discipline is not law, per se, I have more than a passing familiarity with many legal topics.

I don’t want him to lose ground in this merger. I understand how important seniority is to pilots. He has had an excellent schedule in his time at Sunwing and we both hope that he doesn’t suffer a loss, if any, as a result of this merger, should it happen.

So, we are watching what happens.

[chris.y]

Hello,

Question about new hire getting yyz base, how long will it take approximately to get yvr or yyc transfer ? Thx

[Greasy Greaser]

Hello,

Question about new hire getting yyz base, how long will it take approximately to get yvr or yyc transfer ? Thx

Pretty quick with the current trend, I'd bet less than a year easily. Pretty sure YVR is only a little more junior than YYC so expect that first.
Though with anything and everything, things do change.

[flyer 1492]

mainline does not have a pilot base in YYC

[flyer 1492]

Jazz has a pilot base in YYC not mainline.

[Tbayer2021]

mainline does not have a pilot base in YYC

You do realize this is a WestJet forum, right? WestJet doe indeed have a YYC base and its the most senior one.

[rooster]

mainline does not have a pilot base in YYC

What are you smoking?!

[chris.y]

Hello,

Question about new hire getting yyz base, how long will it take approximately to get yvr or yyc transfer ? Thx

Pretty quick with the current trend, I'd bet less than a year easily. Pretty sure YVR is only a little more junior than YYC so expect that first.
Though with anything and everything, things do change.

Woaw I was really expecting you to say around 2-4 years for base transfer.
Reserve time and upgrades are the same time as 2019 or with the current trend it’s better ?
6-8 years reserve and >10 years for upgrade ?
Thank you

[Canadaflyer46]

Hello,

Question about new hire getting yyz base, how long will it take approximately to get yvr or yyc transfer ? Thx

Pretty quick with the current trend, I'd bet less than a year easily. Pretty sure YVR is only a little more junior than YYC so expect that first.
Though with anything and everything, things do change.

Woaw I was really expecting you to say around 2-4 years for base transfer.
Reserve time and upgrades are the same time as 2019 or with the current trend it’s better ?
6-8 years reserve and >10 years for upgrade ?
Thank you

Depends on the base. YYZ is the junior base, it's currently around 5 years seniority to be off reserve. In YYC it's around 7 years to be off reserve. Upgrades currently at 9 years for YYZ. Must be the slowest narrowbody upgrade in North America.

[Inverted2]

Pretty quick with the current trend, I'd bet less than a year easily. Pretty sure YVR is only a little more junior than YYC so expect that first.
Though with anything and everything, things do change.

Woaw I was really expecting you to say around 2-4 years for base transfer.
Reserve time and upgrades are the same time as 2019 or with the current trend it’s better ?
6-8 years reserve and >10 years for upgrade ?
Thank you

Depends on the base. YYZ is the junior base, it's currently around 5 years seniority to be off reserve. In YYC it's around 7 years to be off reserve. Upgrades currently at 9 years for YYZ. Must be the slowest narrowbody upgrade in North America.

Question: if it takes 9 years to upgrade do you go to year 9 captain pay or start all over at 1?

[Canadaflyer46]

Woaw I was really expecting you to say around 2-4 years for base transfer.
Reserve time and upgrades are the same time as 2019 or with the current trend it’s better ?
6-8 years reserve and >10 years for upgrade ?
Thank you

Depends on the base. YYZ is the junior base, it's currently around 5 years seniority to be off reserve. In YYC it's around 7 years to be off reserve. Upgrades currently at 9 years for YYZ. Must be the slowest narrowbody upgrade in North America.

Question: if it takes 9 years to upgrade do you go to year 9 captain pay or start all over at 1?

Year 9.

[IOV747]

HELP NEEDED.

Looking for some advice here, specially if there is someone from WJ here. Would you recommend going WJ mainline right now? Is there a good future there rn? Are people within happy?
Would you guys recommend Jazz or Cargojet instead?

Thanks!

[cjet]

The job is good but there are some huge drawbacks. Mostly to do with upgrades. I'm just guessing here but upgrades for new hires are 15 plus years away. A new hire is at the bottom of our senioroty list of curently at 2200 pilots. LOts of retirements to go before you'll get an upgrade. LIfe in the right seat is good though. Good sked and the money is OK. I would say AC is the place to be but WJ would be a good spot to wait until hey call.

CJET