Mainline hiring

[goingmissed]

That's not far off from what a first year first officer at Encore is taking home...

[Aspiredtofly]

Just curious. Everyone says take home pay is garbage for the first few years. But I don't understand your pay very well.

Without a pension obviously it's important to take advantage of the WSP so include that.

At AC as a 11 year skipper on the 320 (very similar to our 737 pay) I take home about 10k a month, with 10% share purchase done automatically, that's with no OT and about 75 hours of credit. How does that compare?

Is the captain upgrade for the 320 still there with 3-4 years of seniority after joining AC?

[Aspiredtofly]

Can we compare the first 5 years of income at Westjet vs Air Canada including retirement contribution. If someone could do that here then it would be great

[Tbayer2021]

Can we compare the first 5 years of income at Westjet vs Air Canada including retirement contribution. If someone could do that here then it would be great

Why don't you do it?

[Aspiredtofly]

Can we compare the first 5 years of income at Westjet vs Air Canada including retirement contribution. If someone could do that here then it would be great

Why don't you do it?

The WJ payscale still confuses me alot especially with that WSP plan thingy for AC I'm not sure if you can make more money through overtime considering that your first 4 years of salary is fixed. I'll post the 2021 version of the AC payscale just add 2% to it for the 2022 one and the WJ payscale is at the 1st page of this forum, if someone has the time to do it then it would help alot of us making a decision here thanks.

[Aspiredtofly]

AC pay 2021. Add 2% to get the 2022 rate

[landshark]

Your first four years are guaranteed 75hrs a month, but you get paid the greater of 75 or hours flown. Ex: if you fly120 credit hours, you get paid for 120hrs.

[bob99]

Just curious. Everyone says take home pay is garbage for the first few years. But I don't understand your pay very well.

Without a pension obviously it's important to take advantage of the WSP so include that.

At AC as a 11 year skipper on the 320 (very similar to our 737 pay) I take home about 10k a month, with 10% share purchase done automatically, that's with no OT and about 75 hours of credit. How does that compare?

Is the captain upgrade for the 320 still there with 3-4 years of seniority after joining AC?

Yes, mainly the 220. And it’s only that long because everything stopped during Covid. People that were furloughed have upgrade courses already.

[negative_g]

Just curious. Everyone says take home pay is garbage for the first few years. But I don't understand your pay very well.

Without a pension obviously it's important to take advantage of the WSP so include that.

At AC as a 11 year skipper on the 320 (very similar to our 737 pay) I take home about 10k a month, with 10% share purchase done automatically, that's with no OT and about 75 hours of credit. How does that compare?

Is the captain upgrade for the 320 still there with 3-4 years of seniority after joining AC?

Yes, mainly the 220. And it’s only that long because everything stopped during Covid. People that were furloughed have upgrade courses already.

You sure about that?

[bob99]

Yep. Yul 220.

[Aspiredtofly]

You guys can still correct me if I'm wrong
2022
AC: 75 hours/month(Not including perdiem's)
1st year : $58,522.5
2nd year: $62,726.94
3rd year: $71,484.66
4th year: $80,049.6
WJ: 77.5 hours/month(Not including perdiem's)
1st year: $60,375.6
2nd year: $65,425.5
3rd year: $83,588.4
4th year: $89,252.1

Comparison: 2.5 hours more at WJ
1st year: Your earning $1853.1 more at WJ/year
2nd year: Your earning $2698.56 more at WJ/year
3rd year: Your earning $12,103.74 more at WJ/year
4th year: Your earning $9,202.5 more at WJ/year

Deductibles(Income tax: Federal tax, Provincial tax; CPP deduction; EI deduction):
This could not be accurate since it depends upon the province you live in. I chose Ontario

AC: After deductibles income
1st year: $42,173
2nd year: $44,921
3rd year: $50,934
4th year: $56,812

WJ: After deductibles income(Without WSP)
1st year: $43,374
2nd year: $46,716
3rd year: $59,118
4th year: $63,118

WJ: After deductibles income(With WSP[-20%])
1st year: $34,699.2
2nd year: $37,372.8
3rd year: $47,389.6
4th year: $50,494.4
Perdiems and extra money can be added by your assumptions so I won't add that. Here's what the income would be from my perspective. You can still correct me if you want

[fish4life]

You guys can still correct me if I'm wrong
2022
AC: 75 hours/month(Not including perdiem's)
1st year : $58,522.5
2nd year: $62,726.94
3rd year: $71,484.66
4th year: $80,049.6
WJ: 77.5 hours/month(Not including perdiem's)
1st year: $60,375.6
2nd year: $65,425.5
3rd year: $83,588.4
4th year: $89,252.1

Comparison: 2.5 hours more at WJ
1st year: Your earning $1853.1 more at WJ/year
2nd year: Your earning $2698.56 more at WJ/year
3rd year: Your earning $12,103.74 more at WJ/year
4th year: Your earning $9,202.5 more at WJ/year

Deductibles(Income tax: Federal tax, Provincial tax; CPP deduction; EI deduction):
This could not be accurate since it depends upon the province you live in. I chose Ontario

AC: After deductibles income
1st year: $42,173
2nd year: $44,921
3rd year: $50,934
4th year: $56,812

WJ: After deductibles income(Without WSP)
1st year: $43,374
2nd year: $46,716
3rd year: $59,118
4th year: $63,118

WJ: After deductibles income(With WSP[-20%])
1st year: $34,699.2
2nd year: $37,372.8
3rd year: $47,389.6
4th year: $50,494.4
Perdiems and extra money can be added by your assumptions so I won't add that. Here's what the income would be from my perspective. You can still correct me if you want

The flawed part of the math would be how much each pilot has in a savings account/ RRSP/ pension plan.

AC has pension deductions to add.

[Apestogetherstrong]

Guys and gals not all things are bad. While other companies offer better WAWCON and some are offering retention bonuses, apparently Encore offered a free hot/cold beverage from Tim Hortons in Sep. So at least they’re doing something! Really appreciate the kind gesture. Makes me want to work at a company where employees are valued. Can you name any other company that does that?

[Airbrake]

Guys and gals not all things are bad. While other companies offer better WAWCON and some are offering retention bonuses, apparently Encore offered a free hot/cold beverage from Tim Hortons in Sep. So at least they’re doing something! Really appreciate the kind gesture. Makes me want to work at a company where employees are valued. Can you name any other company that does that?

Don’t forget the thank you video.

[YC87DRVR]

You guys can still correct me if I'm wrong
2022
AC: 75 hours/month(Not including perdiem's)
1st year : $58,522.5
2nd year: $62,726.94
3rd year: $71,484.66
4th year: $80,049.6
WJ: 77.5 hours/month(Not including perdiem's)
1st year: $60,375.6
2nd year: $65,425.5
3rd year: $83,588.4
4th year: $89,252.1

Comparison: 2.5 hours more at WJ
1st year: Your earning $1853.1 more at WJ/year
2nd year: Your earning $2698.56 more at WJ/year
3rd year: Your earning $12,103.74 more at WJ/year
4th year: Your earning $9,202.5 more at WJ/year

Deductibles(Income tax: Federal tax, Provincial tax; CPP deduction; EI deduction):
This could not be accurate since it depends upon the province you live in. I chose Ontario

AC: After deductibles income
1st year: $42,173
2nd year: $44,921
3rd year: $50,934
4th year: $56,812

WJ: After deductibles income(Without WSP)
1st year: $43,374
2nd year: $46,716
3rd year: $59,118
4th year: $63,118

WJ: After deductibles income(With WSP[-20%])
1st year: $34,699.2
2nd year: $37,372.8
3rd year: $47,389.6
4th year: $50,494.4
Perdiems and extra money can be added by your assumptions so I won't add that. Here's what the income would be from my perspective. You can still correct me if you want

That was a complete waste of time comparing the pay at both companies, unless you only plan at working at both the 4 years you broke down and even then still waste of time.
If you plan on spending the majority of your career at either company there’s one big reason WJ doesn’t even come close to AC for someone starting now, upgrades.
I can’t speak for current upgrade time at AC but have heard it’s possible to upgrade in a couple years.
Someone starting at Westjet now, who knows how long till they upgrade, could be 15 years or more. The upgrade times have been huge in recent years and with the company “refocusing on the West” (downsizing) who knows what that will do to upgrade times.

[goingmissed]

Guys and gals not all things are bad. While other companies offer better WAWCON and some are offering retention bonuses, apparently Encore offered a free hot/cold beverage from Tim Hortons in Sep. So at least they’re doing something! Really appreciate the kind gesture. Makes me want to work at a company where employees are valued. Can you name any other company that does that?

Management doesn't understand sarcasm, so I will translate it for you.

We cannot live off of one coffee per year.
We cannot live off of a pancake a year.
We cannot pay rent with thank you videos.

Our CEO says "business comes first and we don't do stupid things" at the same time that he alienates pilots encourages them to leave through poor management.

Pilots are reporting sleeping in the crew room because they can't afford a hotel and being unable to afford basic necessities. We have a serious problem regarding low pay at Encore and it needs to be fixed yesterday.

[GRK2]

While I understand that for some it's not easy, but you could always "vote with your feet..."

[goingmissed]

While I understand that for some it's not easy, but you could always "vote with your feet..."

Look around for the image titled "WestJet Encore August 2022 Flow Class" where it's eight pilots who left Encore for Air Canada. I believe that most, if not all of them accepted flow and then left before beginning training at mainline.

The exodus is happening. Unfortunately leaving is not practicable for many pilots due to personal reasons.

[Greasy Greaser]

You guys can still correct me if I'm wrong
2022
AC: 75 hours/month(Not including perdiem's)
1st year : $58,522.5
2nd year: $62,726.94
3rd year: $71,484.66
4th year: $80,049.6
WJ: 77.5 hours/month(Not including perdiem's)
1st year: $60,375.6
2nd year: $65,425.5
3rd year: $83,588.4
4th year: $89,252.1

Comparison: 2.5 hours more at WJ
1st year: Your earning $1853.1 more at WJ/year
2nd year: Your earning $2698.56 more at WJ/year
3rd year: Your earning $12,103.74 more at WJ/year
4th year: Your earning $9,202.5 more at WJ/year

Deductibles(Income tax: Federal tax, Provincial tax; CPP deduction; EI deduction):
This could not be accurate since it depends upon the province you live in. I chose Ontario

AC: After deductibles income
1st year: $42,173
2nd year: $44,921
3rd year: $50,934
4th year: $56,812

WJ: After deductibles income(Without WSP)
1st year: $43,374
2nd year: $46,716
3rd year: $59,118
4th year: $63,118

WJ: After deductibles income(With WSP[-20%])
1st year: $34,699.2
2nd year: $37,372.8
3rd year: $47,389.6
4th year: $50,494.4
Perdiems and extra money can be added by your assumptions so I won't add that. Here's what the income would be from my perspective. You can still correct me if you want

That was a complete waste of time comparing the pay at both companies, unless you only plan at working at both the 4 years you broke down and even then still waste of time.
If you plan on spending the majority of your career at either company there’s one big reason WJ doesn’t even come close to AC for someone starting now, upgrades.
I can’t speak for current upgrade time at AC but have heard it’s possible to upgrade in a couple years.
Someone starting at Westjet now, who knows how long till they upgrade, could be 15 years or more. The upgrade times have been huge in recent years and with the company “refocusing on the West” (downsizing) who knows what that will do to upgrade times.

Downsizing the 87 because of extreme wait at Boeing and shitty routes we chose for them. Parked airplanes do not make money.
Adding more 737s to mainline, not just Swoop but have to keep tally on them. More point to point again with the 737s (hubs suck in Canada especially when you rely on Qs LOL)
Encore is getting heavily reduced YYZ and somehow everyone even the FAs think it's them. Though it seems most posters here are encore.
Get off telegram, it's leaking.

But Yea, wait times at WJ for upgrades even for YYZ is around 9 or so years and that is abysmal. Seems those with 7k hours plus with decent jet times and whatnot get those quick upgrades on the NBs at AC which absolutely blows majority WJ guys out of the park so hopefully those going there are close to their matrix if upgrades keep happening like that.

Let those who want to leave, leave, wish everyone the best. Seems like people forget this industry is cyclical, we're on the downslope at WJ for the last few years and now, gotta fight just like everyone did in the past to get a half decent contract(s). Half the guys leaving weren't even flying when AC was the not great place to be and look at them now. This could be advantageous to us for negotiations.

[JHR]

Those numbers are a disgrace