2022 and beyond Jazz Pilot Movement to AC

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a2btrail
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2022 and beyond Jazz Pilot Movement to AC

Post by a2btrail »

Morning Everyone,

With respect to the MEC's email this week pertaining to Movement to Air Canada and Member Resignation stating that: "With the resumption of hiring, members have begun transitioning to Air Canada in accordance with our flow agreement." does anyone have concrete visibility as to what seniority levels have started transitioning to AC?

Has anyone out there recently been called for the interview or know of someone who has been within the last 1.5 months appx and/or going through the hiring process currently?

If so, what is their seniority class (MM/YY)? My understanding is there were a few folks here at Jazz who had been offered the job just before covid but had their classes cancelled due to the hiring freeze.

Is it reasonable to say AC will start from the very top of the seniority list and work their way down? Or will they start where they left pre-covid? I know most folks with seniority year 2016 and back had no interest of moving to AC.

I do apologize for all the questions. Just hoping for some visibility.
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rudder
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Re: 2022 and beyond Jazz Pilot Movement to AC

Post by rudder »

Jazz pilots from mainline 2020 cancelled courses are being assigned PIT courses. After that, all ‘new’ offers will be in Jazz seniority.

AC not currently interviewing Jazz pilots. Initial PIT courses will be (mostly) OTS. AC has until year-end to comply with 60% requirement.

With the addition of the former SKV pilots, there may be a slight shuffling of the deck in respect of where the ‘front-of-the-line’ DOH will be circa 2022.

AC planning to hire approx 500 Jazz pilots over next 19-22 months. I presume that will empty the shelves at Jazz of any interested and qualified applicants. It may also result in opportunities for pilots that are not working at Jazz yet to be processed in the AC preferred hiring process.
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a2btrail
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Re: 2022 and beyond Jazz Pilot Movement to AC

Post by a2btrail »

Got it makes sense. Thanks Rudder. I appreciate your insight.
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Ash Ketchum
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Re: 2022 and beyond Jazz Pilot Movement to AC

Post by Ash Ketchum »

rudder wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 9:41 am Jazz pilots from mainline 2020 cancelled courses are being assigned PIT courses. After that, all ‘new’ offers will be in Jazz seniority.

AC not currently interviewing Jazz pilots. Initial PIT courses will be (mostly) OTS. AC has until year-end to comply with 60% requirement.

With the addition of the former SKV pilots, there may be a slight shuffling of the deck in respect of where the ‘front-of-the-line’ DOH will be circa 2022.

AC planning to hire approx 500 Jazz pilots over next 19-22 months. I presume that will empty the shelves at Jazz of any interested and qualified applicants. It may also result in opportunities for pilots that are not working at Jazz yet to be processed in the AC preferred hiring process.
I think it will be hard for Jazz to stay staffed up properly once AC starts hiring Jazz pilots. I wonder if Jazz will have to raise starting pay to attract 703 pilots over places like Flair or Porter.
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flyingcanuck
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Re: 2022 and beyond Jazz Pilot Movement to AC

Post by flyingcanuck »

Hopefully but doubt it
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jpilot77
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Re: 2022 and beyond Jazz Pilot Movement to AC

Post by jpilot77 »

Ash Ketchum wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 3:53 pm
rudder wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 9:41 am Jazz pilots from mainline 2020 cancelled courses are being assigned PIT courses. After that, all ‘new’ offers will be in Jazz seniority.

AC not currently interviewing Jazz pilots. Initial PIT courses will be (mostly) OTS. AC has until year-end to comply with 60% requirement.

With the addition of the former SKV pilots, there may be a slight shuffling of the deck in respect of where the ‘front-of-the-line’ DOH will be circa 2022.

AC planning to hire approx 500 Jazz pilots over next 19-22 months. I presume that will empty the shelves at Jazz of any interested and qualified applicants. It may also result in opportunities for pilots that are not working at Jazz yet to be processed in the AC preferred hiring process.
I think it will be hard for Jazz to stay staffed up properly once AC starts hiring Jazz pilots. I wonder if Jazz will have to raise starting pay to attract 703 pilots over places like Flair or Porter.
They won’t, the 60% (or whatever it is) of new hire AC pilots have to come through Jazz. The carrot is the job at AC not the starting wage. If you go to flair or porter you’ll get a better starting wage but you might not make it to AC.
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rudder
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Re: 2022 and beyond Jazz Pilot Movement to AC

Post by rudder »

jpilot77 wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 4:33 pm
They won’t, the 60% (or whatever it is) of new hire AC pilots have to come through Jazz. The carrot is the job at AC not the starting wage. If you go to flair or porter you’ll get a better starting wage but you might not make it to AC.
There are pilots that will be hired at Jazz in 2022 that will be at AC by the end of 2024. All they will need is to meet the AC qualification requirements. And being left seat at Jazz is the single most important asset AC is looking for in the preferred hiring process.
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jpilot77
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Re: 2022 and beyond Jazz Pilot Movement to AC

Post by jpilot77 »

rudder wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 4:55 pm
jpilot77 wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 4:33 pm
They won’t, the 60% (or whatever it is) of new hire AC pilots have to come through Jazz. The carrot is the job at AC not the starting wage. If you go to flair or porter you’ll get a better starting wage but you might not make it to AC.
There are pilots that will be hired at Jazz in 2022 that will be at AC by the end of 2024. All they will need is to meet the AC qualification requirements. And being left seat at Jazz is the single most important asset AC is looking for in the preferred hiring process.
Oh 100%. Also it’s important to get as much PIC as you can get your hands on. Pre Covid people were bypassed for less junior pilots cause they didn’t have their ATPLs.
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rudder
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Re: 2022 and beyond Jazz Pilot Movement to AC

Post by rudder »

jpilot77 wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 5:04 pm Oh 100%. Also it’s important to get as much PIC as you can get your hands on. Pre Covid people were bypassed for less junior pilots cause they didn’t have their ATPLs.
If they did not have 2000TT and ATPL they were not ‘bypassed’. They did not meet the AC minimum hiring requirements and therefore were not eligible to apply.
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jpilot77
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Re: 2022 and beyond Jazz Pilot Movement to AC

Post by jpilot77 »

rudder wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 5:16 pm
jpilot77 wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 5:04 pm Oh 100%. Also it’s important to get as much PIC as you can get your hands on. Pre Covid people were bypassed for less junior pilots cause they didn’t have their ATPLs.
If they did not have 2000TT and ATPL they were not ‘bypassed’. They did not meet the AC minimum hiring requirements and therefore were not eligible to apply.
Yeah. Same thing in the end. But you’re right.
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Re: 2022 and beyond Jazz Pilot Movement to AC

Post by Loon-A-Tic »

jpilot77 wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 5:33 pm
rudder wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 5:16 pm
jpilot77 wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 5:04 pm Oh 100%. Also it’s important to get as much PIC as you can get your hands on. Pre Covid people were bypassed for less junior pilots cause they didn’t have their ATPLs.
If they did not have 2000TT and ATPL they were not ‘bypassed’. They did not meet the AC minimum hiring requirements and therefore were not eligible to apply.
Yeah. Same thing in the end. But you’re right.
Not the same thing at all. Some years ago I had he pleasure of listening to a pilot expain to me how he'd been "bypassed" for the left seat even with his "better" senority number. A few simple questions revealed he didn't have even have an ATPL, that's not a bypass in anyway shape or form.
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sportingrifle
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Re: 2022 and beyond Jazz Pilot Movement to AC

Post by sportingrifle »

20 years ago he wouldn’t have been in the right seat of a B1900, much less a Dash 8. Lol. But sorry to hear that his lot in life is so unfair🙄.
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Loon-A-Tic
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Re: 2022 and beyond Jazz Pilot Movement to AC

Post by Loon-A-Tic »

sportingrifle wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 1:45 pm 20 years ago he wouldn’t have been in the right seat of a B1900, much less a Dash 8. Lol. But sorry to hear that his lot in life is so unfair🙄.
The "entitlement" that's developing within some is absolutely mind boggling.
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iflyroads
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Re: 2022 and beyond Jazz Pilot Movement to AC

Post by iflyroads »

rudder wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 9:41 am
AC not currently interviewing Jazz pilots. Initial PIT courses will be (mostly) OTS. AC has until year-end to comply with 60% requirement.
Brining in some Jazz Pilots for interviews, medical and cognitive tests next week.
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rudder
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Re: 2022 and beyond Jazz Pilot Movement to AC

Post by rudder »

iflyroads wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 8:59 am
Brining in some Jazz Pilots for interviews, medical and cognitive tests next week.
Makes sense. Job offers need to be in order of Jazz applicant seniority (notwithstanding the Jazz pilots from cancelled 2020 AC PIT courses).

I could see further Jazz pilots on course by July/August PIT courses.
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iflyroads
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Re: 2022 and beyond Jazz Pilot Movement to AC

Post by iflyroads »

rudder wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 9:53 am
iflyroads wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 8:59 am
Brining in some Jazz Pilots for interviews, medical and cognitive tests next week.
I could see further Jazz pilots on course by July/August PIT courses.
That's the plan..likely August. But you've seen how inaccurate my posts have been lately when it comes to timelines. The plan is constantly changing.
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lownslow
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Re: 2022 and beyond Jazz Pilot Movement to AC

Post by lownslow »

The number I heard was 160 to AC this year, I assume in order of seniority but I have no horse in that race. Am I correct in my understanding that’s about 10% of Jazz’ total pilot roster?
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rudder
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Re: 2022 and beyond Jazz Pilot Movement to AC

Post by rudder »

lownslow wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 5:30 pm The number I heard was 160 to AC this year, I assume in order of seniority but I have no horse in that race. Am I correct in my understanding that’s about 10% of Jazz’ total pilot roster?
Looks like a more accurate number is now available.

Not broken down by calendar year, but 327 pilots forecast to leave Jazz for AC over next 12 months. That is 27% of the current active pilots.
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lownslow
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Re: 2022 and beyond Jazz Pilot Movement to AC

Post by lownslow »

Interesting. Has AC even posted that many vacancies?
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rudder
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Re: 2022 and beyond Jazz Pilot Movement to AC

Post by rudder »

lownslow wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 5:16 pm Interesting. Has AC even posted that many vacancies?
There are lines of communication between AC and Jazz that do not involve waiting for equipment bid posting.

It is fairly common knowledge that AC is looking at hiring 800 or more pilots between now and the end of 2023. 800 x 0.6 = 480. Apparently, Jazz has already been informed that pace of attrition to AC will be fairly aggressive. AC must meet the 60% threshold on an annualized basis. It does therefore allow AC to back load Jazz hiring in each calendar year. Focus for both carriers in terms of Pilot staffing is always summer peak flying volume.

Jazz is looking at increasing size of new-hire classes. Training capacity is the choke point. Same for AC.
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