Flair or Jazz

[proppilot123]

Hello! Hoping to get a bit of advice on what to choose. ATPL 1700 hour pilot with the option for Flair or Jazz. My goal has never necessarily been to go to AC but I obviously would like to choose the best career for pay and work life balance. Jazz appeals to me because of the direct flow to AC but is also less exciting. Flair appeals to me because of the opportunity it has to grow and seems more exciting but I'm also worried if they will survive long-term. Any advice helps

[indieadventurer]

I’d go Jazz for longer term stability and higher probability of getting to Air Canada and also sooner.

[780Pilot]

I’d go Jazz for longer term stability and higher probability of getting to Air Canada and also sooner.

+1 I don’t my a horse in that race myself however certainty is everything in this industry when you can get it, or the feeling of it lol. Jazz is the safe play long term.

[Blackdog0301]

Simply echoing the above responses. Jazz offers so much more for folks like you who are still early in their careers. Going to Flair is such a risky move right now.

[Boeingman]

Simply echoing the above responses. Jazz offers so much more for folks like you who are still early in their careers. Going to Flair is such a risky move right now.

Jazz provides stability, good career for those that want to go to AC, however poverty wages. Take home ends up being 50% deducted after taxes and deductions specifically LTDs.

Flair has a lot of potential quick upgrades, pay is above poverty wages, starting pay is better than other 737 FO positions, lots of bases, you'll move up in seniority quick due to the amount of new hires, health and travel benefits are provided from day 1 and its covered 100% by the company unlike Jazz where you and the company pay 50% and you're home every night. I wouldn't say there wouldn't be a risk, but I wouldn't call it super risky especially since the whole CTA situation is closed up, but the potential risk is there as its an "ULCC", however demand shows that people like cheap fares.

There are 2500-6000TT pilots at Flair/Swoop/WJ/Porter that have gotten interviews with AC within the first couple of months of being hired since AC is taking the first 40% now, and 60% closer to the end of the year. One might say OTS is the faster way of getting hired with AC.

[Blackdog0301]

Simply echoing the above responses. Jazz offers so much more for folks like you who are still early in their careers. Going to Flair is such a risky move right now.

you'll move up in seniority quick due to the amount of new hires

And the number of pilots jumping ship for other operators. Don't forget that!

[Boeingman]

Simply echoing the above responses. Jazz offers so much more for folks like you who are still early in their careers. Going to Flair is such a risky move right now.

you'll move up in seniority quick due to the amount of new hires

And the number of pilots jumping ship for other operators. Don't forget that!

that's true as well, can't deny that

[co-joe]

Hello! Hoping to get a bit of advice on what to choose. ATPL 1700 hour pilot with the option for Flair or Jazz. My goal has never necessarily been to go to AC but I obviously would like to choose the best career for pay and work life balance. Jazz appeals to me because of the direct flow to AC but is also less exciting. Flair appeals to me because of the opportunity it has to grow and seems more exciting but I'm also worried if they will survive long-term. Any advice helps

Tough call that only you can answer. Pay and equipment are better at Flair, if you live in one of our 6 bases you'll be home every night, and if you work your ass off, in 2 years when you upgrade, first year captain pay will be better than you'll make in 20 years at Jazz.

At jazz the training is more geared towards your first 705, and you have the guaranteed interview with AC... then you wait in line. So far AC has honoured the PML, unlike Westjet who hasn't even made an attempt to meet their contractual flow obligations from Encore. The risk is definitely there that AC stops taking all the Jazz pilots they have promised when it means parking large numbers of regional aircraft. Time will tell.

Good luck.

[lowoleo22]

I say go with Flair. The pay at Jazz isn't enough to live in the bases they operate. And if you do want to jump ship at some point, I bet a 737 max type rating goes a lot further in applying to AC than one at Jazz.

[music.is.the.answer]

You will absolutely go to Air Canada faster by going to Flair. This is not even a debate. You’d be flying a 737, which Air Canada also operates. You won’t have to wait for your number to come up, as you would at Jazz for flow through. And Air Canada has hired tons of Flair pilots in the last few courses.

Anyone who debates this is stupid. Trust me. If AC is your goal, go to Flair, not Jazz. Air Canada loves taking guys from the competition. They’ve also reassessed the flow through and it’s down to 60% now at Jazz.

Jazz would be a better run company, but you’ll make more money at Flair when they finally sign this new contract.

Bottom line, if you go to Jazz, you’ll watch your friends at flair go to AC a year or two before you flow through. Guaranteed.

[Loon-A-Tic]

Its all about security and which operator is best placed to weather the next "storm", rest assured there will be another "storm".

[yhz41]

Anyone who debates this is stupid. Trust me. If AC is your goal, go to Flair, not Jazz. Air Canada loves taking guys from the competition. They’ve also reassessed the flow through and it’s down to 60% now at Jazz.

It has always been 60% at Jazz, that hasn't changed.

[Ash Ketchum]

Flair, I almost went there recently and I am a junior captain at Jazz...

[vanislepilot]

I would say Flair, your salary will be X2 of what you'd get at jazz and you would be on a jet. Lifestyle seems pretty good there too from what I've heard.

[Canadaflyer46]

Rumour is a decent pay rise coming for Flair pilots which could be a game changer. Can anyone comment on when that’s coming?

[kiaszceski]

Rumour is a decent pay rise coming for Flair pilots which could be a game changer. Can anyone comment on when that’s coming?

I'm sure they'll advertise it once ALPA and the company finds common ground.

[capt_Z]

Hello! Hoping to get a bit of advice on what to choose. ATPL 1700 hour pilot with the option for Flair or Jazz. My goal has never necessarily been to go to AC but I obviously would like to choose the best career for pay and work life balance. Jazz appeals to me because of the direct flow to AC but is also less exciting. Flair appeals to me because of the opportunity it has to grow and seems more exciting but I'm also worried if they will survive long-term. Any advice helps

So what did you choose?

[canadian_aviator_4]

Hello! Hoping to get a bit of advice on what to choose. ATPL 1700 hour pilot with the option for Flair or Jazz. My goal has never necessarily been to go to AC but I obviously would like to choose the best career for pay and work life balance. Jazz appeals to me because of the direct flow to AC but is also less exciting. Flair appeals to me because of the opportunity it has to grow and seems more exciting but I'm also worried if they will survive long-term. Any advice helps

So what did you choose?

If he chose flair he is probably at air canada by now. If jazz, probably working multiple jobs to make ends meet.

[capt_Z]

Hello! Hoping to get a bit of advice on what to choose. ATPL 1700 hour pilot with the option for Flair or Jazz. My goal has never necessarily been to go to AC but I obviously would like to choose the best career for pay and work life balance. Jazz appeals to me because of the direct flow to AC but is also less exciting. Flair appeals to me because of the opportunity it has to grow and seems more exciting but I'm also worried if they will survive long-term. Any advice helps

So what did you choose?

If he chose flair he is probably at air canada by now. If jazz, probably working multiple jobs to make ends meet.

[cdnavater]

Hello! Hoping to get a bit of advice on what to choose. ATPL 1700 hour pilot with the option for Flair or Jazz. My goal has never necessarily been to go to AC but I obviously would like to choose the best career for pay and work life balance. Jazz appeals to me because of the direct flow to AC but is also less exciting. Flair appeals to me because of the opportunity it has to grow and seems more exciting but I'm also worried if they will survive long-term. Any advice helps

So what did you choose?

If he chose flair he is probably at air canada by now. If jazz, probably working multiple jobs to make ends meet.

Are you still at Jazz?
if so, why? It’s clearly not good for your mental state, I think you should do something about your situation.
Jazz has really good health care, so if you wanted to talk to a professional, it’s covered.

Jazz still has one of the best contracts in the industry, yes the pay is abysmal and it’s only that way because pilots don’t stop coming here. We are still running ground schools, still getting pilots with an ATPL or close to it, so how bad could it be.

canadian_aviator_4,
I don’t know if you’ve interviewed yet, but might I suggest that if you have a poor attitude about your situation, it will likely show up there and you could end up one of the 40% rejections, stuck at Jazz.
I’m also hearing rumbles about some fleet changes and getting rid of the flow, with Flair pausing hiring, depending on if you’re on the dash, your situation might not improve. I don’t think you’d be happy on the dash at Porter either, just saying. Time to make the hard choice, roll the dice with Jazz or move on, now is that time!
P.S. I used to fly with a guy who would say, “see you later and have the day of your choice” it is a choice to be happy or miserable, you choose.