New Flair Staff Travel

[twa22]

These pilots came from their oversees jobs making what they did and were willing to accept shit pay to start up an airline when the whole industry put a ban on accepting those positions.

They then manipulated and negotiated their crap contract just recently when they had the opportunity to do so much better.

Completely wrong...almost every single pilot you accuse of coming home and contributing to lowering the bar were actually let go. Emirates, Etihad, Cathay and those who worked in China and other expat pilot centric postings were terminated, lost bases, and sent home. To accuse those who, through no fault of their own, as the creators of what the management teams in this industry created themselves shows how little you actually know about the Canadian industry. Please get it right before you toss out your crap.

I have a few friends at these various companies you mentioned, and as far as I know, and have been told, there was never a moment in the last 20 years, other then covid, that any of these airlines terminated pilots without cause, so if Flairs management pilots are mostly expats and were let go during good times, please enlighten us as to why, as your statement raises a few red flags right from the get go....

[Vanguard]

These pilots came from their oversees jobs making what they did and were willing to accept shit pay to start up an airline when the whole industry put a ban on accepting those positions.

They then manipulated and negotiated their crap contract just recently when they had the opportunity to do so much better.

Completely wrong...almost every single pilot you accuse of coming home and contributing to lowering the bar were actually let go. Emirates, Etihad, Cathay and those who worked in China and other expat pilot centric postings were terminated, lost bases, and sent home. To accuse those who, through no fault of their own, as the creators of what the management teams in this industry created themselves shows how little you actually know about the Canadian industry. Please get it right before you toss out your crap.

I probably know way more than you may even understand.

So it’s okay for them to return to Canada and accept 98k for 737 CA position just because their egos don’t allow them to sit in the right seat anymore? Left seat or nothing eh…

You do realize what that did to our Canadian industry when people are willing to accept 98k for a 737 captain. Let’s wake up and look around.


Also accept that job knowing there is a IFALPA ban in place and that WJ was in a middle of a battle?

[GRK2]

IFALPA ban....oooh, that'll make em sit up and lie awake at night hey? There's no doubt that some "housecleaning" took place and a few were sent packing. However the majority were sent home due to a downsizing, or Covid or base closures and age limits in foreign countries. Out of work and wondering how to stay afloat financially is hardly any reason to not want to support a family. Stop blaming someone who needs to make ends meet for taking a job. By the way, the number isn't 98K anymore, it's climbing and if we all keep the pressure on the ownership and management it'll keep going. Crawl, walk, run...

[twa22]

However the majority were sent home due to a downsizing, or Covid or base closures and age limits in foreign countries. Out of work and wondering how to stay afloat financially is hardly any reason to not want to support a family. Stop blaming someone who needs to make ends meet for taking a job.

Not quite sure if this is in any shape a reply to what I posted, but I don't know which of those airlines you mentioned downsized anytime in the last 20 years, other then the covid layoffs. Mandatory age retirements? Where? All those airlines you mentioned are 60 plus and have been for a while, much like every other airline in the world, so I find it hard to believe anyone was forced to leave due to age limits.

Look, 737 CA making 98k is an utter joke, and saying that now it's going up is irrelevant, it should've never been that to begin with, no matter the excuse

Also, if you were an expat for years and couldn't stay afloat for a little bit till your next job, that's a big, big problem, as we all know how much expats make, especially CAs in some of these places

[CaptDukeNukem]

These pilots came from their oversees jobs making what they did and were willing to accept shit pay to start up an airline when the whole industry put a ban on accepting those positions.

They then manipulated and negotiated their crap contract just recently when they had the opportunity to do so much better.

Completely wrong...almost every single pilot you accuse of coming home and contributing to lowering the bar were actually let go. Emirates, Etihad, Cathay and those who worked in China and other expat pilot centric postings were terminated, lost bases, and sent home. To accuse those who, through no fault of their own, as the creators of what the management teams in this industry created themselves shows how little you actually know about the Canadian industry. Please get it right before you toss out your crap.

I probably know way more than you may even understand.

So it’s okay for them to return to Canada and accept 98k for 737 CA position just because their egos don’t allow them to sit in the right seat anymore? Left seat or nothing eh…

You do realize what that did to our Canadian industry when people are willing to accept 98k for a 737 captain. Let’s wake up and look around.


Also accept that job knowing there is a IFALPA ban in place and that WJ was in a middle of a battle?

What are you going on about? IFALFA? Yea, cuz we’re gonna respect that… for sure….. when unions and companies here ain’t doing anything either.

Im also curious as much as the above members questioning your last post, which airline in Canada pays 98k$ for a 737 captain?

[khedrei]

These pilots came from their oversees jobs making what they did and were willing to accept shit pay to start up an airline when the whole industry put a ban on accepting those positions.

They then manipulated and negotiated their crap contract just recently when they had the opportunity to do so much better.

Completely wrong...almost every single pilot you accuse of coming home and contributing to lowering the bar were actually let go. Emirates, Etihad, Cathay and those who worked in China and other expat pilot centric postings were terminated, lost bases, and sent home. To accuse those who, through no fault of their own, as the creators of what the management teams in this industry created themselves shows how little you actually know about the Canadian industry. Please get it right before you toss out your crap.

I probably know way more than you may even understand.

So it’s okay for them to return to Canada and accept 98k for 737 CA position just because their egos don’t allow them to sit in the right seat anymore? Left seat or nothing eh…

You do realize what that did to our Canadian industry when people are willing to accept 98k for a 737 captain. Let’s wake up and look around.


Also accept that job knowing there is a IFALPA ban in place and that WJ was in a middle of a battle?

What are you going on about? IFALFA? Yea, cuz we’re gonna respect that… for sure….. when unions and companies here ain’t doing anything either.

Im also curious as much as the above members questioning your last post, which airline in Canada pays 98k$ for a 737 captain?

Swoop. According to the last pay scale that was posted several months ago. I think it was 99k to be more accurate.

[Vanguard]

IFALPA ban....oooh, that'll make em sit up and lie awake at night hey? There's no doubt that some "housecleaning" took place and a few were sent packing. However the majority were sent home due to a downsizing, or Covid or base closures and age limits in foreign countries. Out of work and wondering how to stay afloat financially is hardly any reason to not want to support a family. Stop blaming someone who needs to make ends meet for taking a job. By the way, the number isn't 98K anymore, it's climbing and if we all keep the pressure on the ownership and management it'll keep going. Crawl, walk, run...

LOL. THE NUMBER ISNT 98K ANYMORE? It sure was and they did it. Now they brought it up to 140k? which is still quite low but clearly you won’t agree to that and they accepted 97k at that time.


DO THE MATH. No more excuses. Scabs will be scabs. These guys are the worst of the industry. I find it fascinating they don't even keep SWOOP on their beefed up linkedin profiles.

My god. I wonder if you are one of those idiots.

To ACCEPT a job at that rate because you need to make ends meet? We have heard this excuse before. Brutal. People like you should just quit aviation. It is exactly this mentality that keeps us so far from proper wages in Canada. I feel for all those people who lost their upgrades for years because of these pilots but you are quite wrong if you don’t think they caused damage to every pilot in Canada.

[flyinhigh]

To ACCEPT a job at that rate because you need to make ends meet? We have heard this excuse before. Brutal. People like you should just quit aviation. It is exactly this mentality that keeps us so far from proper wages in Canada. I feel for all those people who lost their upgrades for years because of these pilots but you are quite wrong if you don’t think they caused damage to every pilot in Canada.

Ok let’s cool down abit here. Everyone always says this drivel about making ends meet. Reality is, if someone has a family to feed, house to pay for and is out of work with nothing to fall back on, then yes they are going to take what they can. I personally will not fault anyone for doing so.

Hell, we have 4000 none expat pilots in Canada that force just this exact issue everyday. Everyone complains about it, yet the next day 99% of the pilots here will jump on the pony and ride off into the sunset.

The main key is fixing the WAWCON as it stands. They did bump it up, (although epically failed while doing so) which made Porter bump there’s. Next was sunwing, with WestJet soon to follow. The effect will continue to a point where we can all agree that we are happy…….errrr nevermind we are pilots and will always complain.