Jets at YTZ

[Timetoflyagain]

Wow..a pro aviation politician….in todays National Post (July21)

Poilievre promises to approve jets at Toronto's Billy Bishop if plan is revived.

Toronto’s downtown core is solidly liberal and ndp so he’s not losing any future votes or sleep announcing this.

Let the lefty howling begin!

[photofly]

He knows nothing about operations at CYTZ and cares nothing about aviation. He does care about headlines though.

Ask CYTZ tower if they can accommodate “way more flights”.

[TheAlcalde]

I want to see porter get jets. There are some fantastic people working there.

But PD is like that friend that posts their New Years resolutions on Facebook. They talk about cutting back on booze, they may even buy some gym clothes. As if telling everyone about it is the same thing as executing it.

They have been spouting off about jets for over 10 years (whisper jets anyone?). I think some of the newer airlines have gone from conception to first flight in less time.

Two failed IPOs lead me to suspect the investors just want their money back and they will hype themselves shamelessly to get it.

[Loon-A-Tic]

If it jets for one it has to be jets for all; AC, Jazz, Swoop, Westjet, Sunwing, Flair, there are others as well and any corporate operator also. Or better still kick the 705 operators to CYYZ and open CYTZ to corporate/private operators a la Teterboro, that should attract the Liberal vote.

[photofly]

If it jets for one it has to be jets for all; AC, Jazz, Swoop, Westjet, Sunwing, Flair, there are others as well

But apart from AC they don’t hold any slots, which are all allocated. So yes, any permission to fly jets would apply to all operators, but only two have permission to operate any kind of commercial service.

[Loon-A-Tic]

Or any and all corporate travel

[photofly]

IF there is permission for jets, it will be for a limited range of models only. If a corporate operator wants to cue up an Airbus A200 for trips in here, I'm sure that will be fine. Other business jets - no.

Regardless of what PP says, the airport is governed by the terms of the tri-partite agreement, between the Federal government, the City of Toronto, and the provincial government. It can only be changed with the agreement of all three, and that's the document that specifies jets are not permitted to operate.

[Loon-A-Tic]

It would be very hard to restrict by make & model however noise certification is a know limiter. It's reasonable to expect that aircraft meeting the required noise levels would/could/should be permitted. That includes a lot of modern corporate airplane and they come with an army of lawyers who will be more than happy to argue their point of view.

I say kick the 705's to CYYZ, turn CYTZ into a corporate hub and thereby offload the air carriers along with their associated infrastructure.

[photofly]

It would be very hard to restrict by make & model however ...

It would be trivial. Any amendment to the TPA can list permitted models by type.

CYTZ will never become a bizjet hub. There's not enough ramp space, the terminal building is all wrong, and the City won't put up with it. They'll shut the airport and turn it into a park before allowing that.

[vanislepilot]

It would be very hard to restrict by make & model however ...

It would be trivial. Any amendment to the TPA can list permitted models by type.

CYTZ will never become a bizjet hub. There's not enough ramp space, the terminal building is all wrong, and the City won't put up with it. They'll shut the airport and turn it into a park before allowing that.

A park? LOL
I bet condo developers have already called dibs if YTZ went bust.

[Loon-A-Tic]

I bet it’s worth more as condos they it could ever generate as an airport

[Old fella]

Pierre Polio and the freedumb associates making headlines again.

[Col. Panic]

It would be very hard to restrict by make & model however ...

It would be trivial. Any amendment to the TPA can list permitted models by type.

CYTZ will never become a bizjet hub. There's not enough ramp space, the terminal building is all wrong, and the City won't put up with it. They'll shut the airport and turn it into a park before allowing that.

Runway length will also have an effect on which jets could land there. I don’t think any of the jets at AC or WJ can legally use a 4000’ runway.

[780Pilot]

Like others have said, space is an issue, but it’s also not. Corporate and private operators alike already fly clients to places where you can’t leave the plane. I can promise you if YTZ opened up to jets, biz jets would pour in from all over even if they needed to fly to YYZ, or YHM to stay the night.

Slots would definitely have to manage this, you probably can’t fit more then a few mid size biz jets on the Porter FBO ramp. Probably no last minute flights into YTZ would be my guess, especially if biz jet slots would be days out like certain private airports in the USA.

[photofly]

It would be very hard to restrict by make & model however ...

It would be trivial. Any amendment to the TPA can list permitted models by type.

CYTZ will never become a bizjet hub. There's not enough ramp space, the terminal building is all wrong, and the City won't put up with it. They'll shut the airport and turn it into a park before allowing that.

Runway length will also have an effect on which jets could land there. I don’t think any of the jets at AC or WJ can legally use a 4000’ runway.

If you recall, the plan was to extend the runway at both ends (some amount) to accomodate the A220. It was opposed particularly by the boating people who didn't want the marine exclusion zones to get any bigger.

The two private FBOs at CYTZ have zero room for jets. There are (and always have been) exciting plans to build new GA facilities on the south field. Don't hold your breath.

The airport is also encroaching on its noise limits; the number of flights is already pretty much capped. There really isn't much room for many more flights; PP is talking from a place of ignorance. Not unusually, for a politician.

[newlygrounded]

It would be trivial. Any amendment to the TPA can list permitted models by type.

CYTZ will never become a bizjet hub. There's not enough ramp space, the terminal building is all wrong, and the City won't put up with it. They'll shut the airport and turn it into a park before allowing that.

Runway length will also have an effect on which jets could land there. I don’t think any of the jets at AC or WJ can legally use a 4000’ runway.

If you recall, the plan was to extend the runway at both ends (some amount) to accomodate the A220. It was opposed particularly by the boating people who didn't want the marine exclusion zones to get any bigger.

The two private FBOs at CYTZ have zero room for jets. There are (and always have been) exciting plans to build new GA facilities on the south field. Don't hold your breath.

The airport is also encroaching on its noise limits; the number of flights is already pretty much capped. There really isn't much room for many more flights; PP is talking from a place of ignorance. Not unusually, for a politician.

The exclusion zone wouldn't be extended. Are the current gates big enough for the e jets? Perhaps porter can shed some Q flights since the e2 will fit way more people anyways

[photofly]

The exclusion zone wouldn't be extended. Are the current gates big enough for the e jets? Perhaps porter can shed some Q flights since the e2 will fit way more people anyways

There aren't any commercially viable jets that can land on a 3990' runway. Comparably, EGLC was extended from 3,543' to 4,948' to allow the A220 and A319 to land there. At CYTZ even the Q400's have to run light. For the kind of jets that will get PP extra votes extending the runway is a prerequisite. Transport Canada will therefore require the MEZs to be enlarged, for safety. It's not an option.

[Bingo Fuel]

RESA requirements already call for an extension to the runway at YTZ. The only question is how far they go with it.

[photofly]

RESA requirements already call for an extension to the runway at YTZ. The only question is how far they go with it.

That's an interesting point. TP312 requires a RESA of 150m. There was an RESA included in the plans when Porter was proposing to operate the A220 but I don't recall how long it was.

[Loon-A-Tic]

I always felt that the CSeries runway extension was simply a "political" ploy to justify a runway extension without an plans to actually purchase any. It would however have nicely expanded the route structure for the 400 operation. If Porter had truly wanted to be the launch customer for the CSeries they could have been based in CYOW or CYHZ at the time.