Looks like Porter is trying to poach Jazz EMB Capts

[schnitzel2k3]

*Preference given to those with time on variant E170.

I think they'll have to make their salaries more competitive me thinks for that to happen based on whatI've seen in the thread that relayed their projected 2022 Porter salaries for the E2.

If Porter makes it attractive to jump ship, could put Jazz in for a world of hurt, between ACs projected flow and Porter's growth plans.

[lownslow]

Poaching? Is that to say Jazz has a right to the ownership of their employees? If so they should sell their ironclad contract language to the companies looking to beef up their training bonds.

[schnitzel2k3]

Poaching? Is that to say Jazz has a right to the ownership of their employees? If so they should sell their ironclad contract language to the companies looking to beef up their training bonds.

Uhhh poaching happens anytime specific training is given for a particular role, regardless of bonds.

in this case while they arent directly reaching out, they are providing notice that they (Emb pilots) will be given preference.

[McKinley]

What’s porter’s pay vs Jazz?

If Porter’s WAWCON is better … I don’t see an issue with pilots going over.

Typical industry employees , XYZ airline is “poaching pilots from Jazz.” So what??! A company offering better pay etc should be celebrated. Said workers willing to leave company with less desirable WAWCON should be encouraged.

Also, flow to AC has been reduced apparently…

What’s with the Vax requirement though ?


It’s time employees stand up to abusive and or exploitative working conditions and that we celebrate our colleagues who have the balls to do so.

[Loon-A-Tic]

Just keep in mind the last time Porter planned to expand into jet operations it never happened and there are no E2’s on the ramp yet.

[maverick12]

Just keep in mind the last time Porter planned to expand into jet operations it never happened and there are no E2’s on the ramp yet.

Damn that video of the E2 being painted must be a hoax video

[Loon-A-Tic]

Just keep in mind the last time Porter planned to expand into jet operations it never happened and there are no E2’s on the ramp yet.

Damn that video of the E2 being painted must be a hoax video

In the grand scheme it’s cheep PR to put a coat of paint on an airplane, especially one as easy as Porter’s

[altiplano]

Poach away.

Compete for qualified labour.

It's good for the pilots that go, it's good for them pilots that stay, it's good for Canadian pilots.

[schnitzel2k3]

Poach away.

Compete for qualified labour.

It's good for the pilots that go, it's good for them pilots that stay, it's good for Canadian pilots.

Agreed.

[rudder]

Poach away.

Compete for qualified labour.

It's good for the pilots that go, it's good for them pilots that stay, it's good for Canadian pilots.

Some E175 pilots who are not waiting in queue for AC will leave Jazz for Porter. In particular, ACP (TRI/TRE) qualified E175 pilots will be in high demand. In this instance, they should name their price. Where else does Porter think they will find such pilots that will be TC approved?

It is not a given that the Porter E2 operation will be a long term success. But there are lots of jobs in CDN aviation right now. None are particularly great paying but DEC opportunities are now commonplace.

$120/hr starting pay on the E2 is not enough for the most qualified E175 pilots (I am not talking about a recent E175 upgrade with <500 hours on type). Porter will have to supplement with a type endorsed signing bonus and a hefty override for type endorsed training pilots.

[schnitzel2k3]

Poach away.

Compete for qualified labour.

It's good for the pilots that go, it's good for them pilots that stay, it's good for Canadian pilots.

Some E175 pilots who are not waiting in queue for AC will leave Jazz for Porter. In particular, ACP (TRI/TRE) qualified E175 pilots will be in high demand. In this instance, they should name their price. Where else does Porter think they will find such pilots that will be TC approved?

It is not a given that the Porter E2 operation will be a long term success. But there are lots of jobs in CDN aviation right now. None are particularly great paying but DEC opportunities are now commonplace.

$120/hr starting pay on the E2 is not enough for the most qualified E175 pilots (I am not talking about a recent E175 upgrade with <500 hours on type). Porter will have to supplement with a type endorsed signing bonus and a hefty override for type endorsed training pilots.

It'll be interesting to see how the industry navigates the new supply of seats in 2023, with similar qualified crew shortages.

Only thing helping out our industry is the ability to take guys at the airlines with frozen AAs down to 250 hours.

[altiplano]

Poach away.

Compete for qualified labour.

It's good for the pilots that go, it's good for them pilots that stay, it's good for Canadian pilots.

Some E175 pilots who are not waiting in queue for AC will leave Jazz for Porter. In particular, ACP (TRI/TRE) qualified E175 pilots will be in high demand. In this instance, they should name their price. Where else does Porter think they will find such pilots that will be TC approved?

It is not a given that the Porter E2 operation will be a long term success. But there are lots of jobs in CDN aviation right now. None are particularly great paying but DEC opportunities are now commonplace.

$120/hr starting pay on the E2 is not enough for the most qualified E175 pilots (I am not talking about a recent E175 upgrade with <500 hours on type). Porter will have to supplement with a type endorsed signing bonus and a hefty override for type endorsed training pilots.

As I said:
Compete for qualified labour.

All the operators in this country have had it far too easy for too long when it comes to the operators in the front end. It's time to bump all these ticket prices up by a couple bucks and pay up.

$120 is fucking ridiculous. That's an FO rate. Barely.

It'll be interesting to see how the industry navigates the new supply of seats in 2023, with similar qualified crew shortages.

Only thing helping out our industry is the ability to take guys at the airlines with frozen AAs down to 250 hours.

I don't think there's any crew shortage. There's a shortage of pay. Guys are leaving or checking out or not coming back to Canada when given the opportunity. All the airline's in this country - every single one of them - pay the shits and the highest paying one punishes new hires for 4 years to welcome them.

If Canadian airlines paid like US Majors and LCCs we'd have a pile of experienced guys in this country to do the work.

Maybe Canadian pilots are finally smartening up and not taking the bait and false promises anymore... that's how this countries airlines have been getting crewed for the past 20 years. But maybe we're starting to wise up to demand real compensation for our skillset.

We are in demand, it's time that these airlines paid like it. Particularly a company like Porter or another upstart that isn't established and offers little in terms of security or longevity... hardly career companies at this point, what would attract an experienced guy if not pay? I think nothing.

[schnitzel2k3]

Poach away.

Compete for qualified labour.

It's good for the pilots that go, it's good for them pilots that stay, it's good for Canadian pilots.

Some E175 pilots who are not waiting in queue for AC will leave Jazz for Porter. In particular, ACP (TRI/TRE) qualified E175 pilots will be in high demand. In this instance, they should name their price. Where else does Porter think they will find such pilots that will be TC approved?

It is not a given that the Porter E2 operation will be a long term success. But there are lots of jobs in CDN aviation right now. None are particularly great paying but DEC opportunities are now commonplace.

$120/hr starting pay on the E2 is not enough for the most qualified E175 pilots (I am not talking about a recent E175 upgrade with <500 hours on type). Porter will have to supplement with a type endorsed signing bonus and a hefty override for type endorsed training pilots.

As I said:
Compete for qualified labour.

All the operators in this country have had it far too easy for too long when it comes to the operators in the front end. It's time to bump all these ticket prices up by a couple bucks and pay up.

$120 is fucking ridiculous. That's an FO rate. Barely.

It'll be interesting to see how the industry navigates the new supply of seats in 2023, with similar qualified crew shortages.

Only thing helping out our industry is the ability to take guys at the airlines with frozen AAs down to 250 hours.

I don't think there's any crew shortage. There's a shortage of pay. Guys are leaving or checking out or not coming back to Canada when given the opportunity. All the airline's in this country - every single one of them - pay the shits and the highest paying one punishes new hires for 4 years to welcome them.

If Canadian airlines paid like US Majors and LCCs we'd have a pile of experienced guys in this country to do the work.

Maybe Canadian pilots are finally smartening up and not taking the bait and false promises anymore... that's how this countries airlines have been getting crewed for the past 20 years. But maybe we're starting to wise up to demand real compensation for our skillset.

We are in demand, it's time that these airlines paid like it. Particularly a company like Porter or another upstart that isn't established and offers little in terms of security or longevity... hardly career companies at this point, what would attract an experienced guy if not pay? I think nothing.

I see unionization, likely with ALPA, in Porters future, especially with potential Jazz crews headed there.

[altiplano]

It would certainly benefit them.

[rudder]

As I said:
Compete for qualified labour.

All the operators in this country have had it far too easy for too long when it comes to the operators in the front end. It's time to bump all these ticket prices up by a couple bucks and pay up.

$120 is fucking ridiculous. That's an FO rate. Barely.

TBH - $120 ($127?) for starting E2 CA is no worse than a certain airline that pays year 1-4 330/787/777 FO $60-88k.

Other CDN carriers paying 737/757/767 year 1 CA $125-130k.

Low pilot pay syndrome is endemic in Canada. Market forces still not yet having an impact. Ability for pilots to exit to US would have devastating affect on CDN airline industry.

[eeeroger]

It would certainly benefit them.

An air canada pilot suggesting the benefits of a union. Lol that’s rich. It seems a lot of this forum involves throwing stones from glass houses. Perhaps there is a reason why the Porter group hasn’t seriously pushed for a union in its 16 years? Those I know at Porter are quite looking forward to the future; a ton of applications I’ve heard as well. I hope the industry as a whole continues to prosper. Why not?

[schnitzel2k3]

It would certainly benefit them.

An air canada pilot suggesting the benefits of a union. Lol that’s rich. It seems a lot of this forum involves throwing stones from glass houses. Perhaps there is a reason why the Porter group hasn’t seriously pushed for a union in its 16 years? Those I know at Porter are quite looking forward to the future; a ton of applications I’ve heard as well. I hope the industry as a whole continues to prosper. Why not?

It's less to say that current pilots are unhappy, and more to do with the fact Porter is seeking pilots from a wide array of operations in the Canadian industry. Most, if not all of those DEC applicants are going to come from a unionized environment. It is likely to assume, given time and pressure, those pilots will seek representation and push more Porter pilots to do the same.

Will be very interesting seeing the growth an how it affects the industry. Canadian pilots usually have to wait for AC to hire before things move, now with Porter in the mix, things may move continuously.

[Bluenoser Skipper]

Low pilot pay syndrome is endemic in Canada. Market forces still not yet having an impact. Ability for pilots to exit to US would have devastating affect on CDN airline industry.

I 100% agree the US opening its borders would help solve their crewing problems and force Canadian operators to increase the salaries of their employees to try and keep them. The best thing a Canadian pilot can do right now is to get your FAA Qualifications and to be ready when the US market opens up.

[yepivedonethat]

I believe that most imported from Sky caps at Jazz would go willingly, especially with a better package being offered by Porter and fly brand new birds instead of the old clapped out original ACA EMB's.

If that sparks a long overdue bidding war for pilots in this country, so be it. They will be the first of many dominoes to fall.

[Jack Klumpus]

Porter got quite a bit of zoom pilots when it went bust. They pushed hard for a union, and it was still voted down. DEC coming from jazz are doing so willingly, as opposed to those from zoom who were out of a job, which leads me to think that there wouldn’t be a push for a union anytime soon.