Is Jazz the right choice

[cdnavater]

Worst airline I’ve ever worked for. FO pay is inhuman.

Curious, what other airlines you worked for that you are you using as your comparison?
Next question, did they lie to you about the pay before you accepted the job?
I here Encore is giving out some raises, Flair too, if it’s the worst why are you still there?
The title of this thread “is Jazz the right choice” as it implies, it is your choosing that got you here and you now have a choice to make, show Jazz how unhappy you are by leaving

[rudder]

……. show Jazz how unhappy you are by leaving

Sounds like a good t-shirt slogan.

Lowest starting pay in the industry is no badge of honour.

[twa22]

It's funny that while Jazz has the lowest base pay (what is it, something like 42K YR1 FO?), Q400 FOs at Porter aren't far behind at 44K according to this thread

viewtopic.php?t=130788

Why is Jazz such a bad choice compared to Porter? I hear no one complaining about the awful pay at Porter... Encore would've been in the same convo but seems like the latest MOA (if passed) at least try's to address the pay issue

So while Jazz is definitely not the place to go due to pay, let's not single out just Jazz, Porter isn't any better, and neither was Encore

[rudder]

It's funny that while Jazz has the lowest base pay (what is it, something like 42K YR1 FO?), Q400 FOs at Porter aren't far behind at 44K according to this thread

viewtopic.php?t=130788

Why is Jazz such a bad choice compared to Porter? I hear no one complaining about the awful pay at Porter... Encore would've been in the same convo but seems like the latest MOA (if passed) at least try's to address the pay issue

So while Jazz is definitely not the place to go due to pay, let's not single out just Jazz, Porter isn't any better, and neither was Encore

Which carriers appear to be moving forward and which carriers appear to have their feet stuck in cement?

[twa22]

It's funny that while Jazz has the lowest base pay (what is it, something like 42K YR1 FO?), Q400 FOs at Porter aren't far behind at 44K according to this thread

viewtopic.php?t=130788

Why is Jazz such a bad choice compared to Porter? I hear no one complaining about the awful pay at Porter... Encore would've been in the same convo but seems like the latest MOA (if passed) at least try's to address the pay issue

So while Jazz is definitely not the place to go due to pay, let's not single out just Jazz, Porter isn't any better, and neither was Encore

Which carriers appear to be moving forward and which carriers appear to have their feet stuck in cement?

From what I'm reading here and have heard directly from my friends, Jazz clearly is feet stuck in cement, Encore seems to be trying to address the problem, and Porter I have no idea as not much chatter about them here and haven't spoken to anyone who works there recently...

One would think that IF the Encore MOA passes, Jazz and Porter pay should go up... At least one can hope it would...

I'm not defending Jazz by any means, especially since the whole flow fiasco started

[canadian_aviator_4]

I feel like a broken record so I’ll explain again online.

Jazz is not the place to be!

Old Jazz pilots are upset Air Georgian and Sky Regional were created and will make it known to you if you come from that operation from the past. They forget to realize they are former Air BC, Air Ontario Etc…they also fail to realize they were treating the job they had as the one and only when clearly it was not

There is no DB pension. That was sold off along time ago so we could get a flow agreement of 60% annual to AC.

There is currently no flow as it stands. Was delayed in the spring summer then subsequently stopped October. It remains to be seen if it will come back for November December. My hunch is no.

There is no upgraded dead heads like the old guard has and there is zero chance it will ever be awarded to the younger group.

Here’s food for thought, the older pilot group always says we have to give something up in order to get something in return.
Why doesn’t the old guard for-fit there c2 passes and dh upgrades for the greater good of the pilot group so we can ask for more pay. This will never happen.

As for pay is abuse. First 4 years as captain and 4 years at FO are a joke and not worth a dime in this current climate.
Lots of FO have to work a second job in order to make ends meet. It’s great for the company because it makes people who otherwise wouldn’t pick up over time do it anyway which helps the pilot shortage issue.

As for the pilot shortage, coming here with a CPL you will be made fun of by all the ATPL pilots. You will be lumped into the Seneca college group which brings the working conditions down dramatically. Don’t forget your crosswind landing limitations!

If you come with an ATPL and manage to upgrade the one
positive is that you transition over to a higher pay scale to afford your gf/bf’s birthday gift. I believe year 4 FO starts at year 2 Captain. Not great but a start.

Have you ever wanted to travel over seas. Our C4 passes will barely get you there. You have to pray an Air Canada call center employees parents don’t try and fly on the same flight as you.

Maintenance generally is okay yet they lack the knowledge for on the fly work. If it goes into maintenance over night it will be repaired. If the aircraft breaks at an outstation with no maintenance base Jazz does not hire contractors to fix the plane. They fly mx out. Good for you if you want an extra day in LGA or BNA. Considering the lay overs are min rest and you never see a single destination longer then it takes to order a pizza and pass out from stress.


Another positive I’ll say is the crew shuttles are fairly good.

Recently they have been scaling back private shuttles.
This has been creating delays for departure because we’re waiting for the hotel shuttle to arrive and wait for the other cattle to get on the bus. This made crew scheduling bring back private shuttles.

Worst case scenario is a dead head day 1 to YUL then you fly to DFW to then take a hotel cattle shuttle for a min rest night at a hotel. Following day is a 3 legs and a dead head back to YUL. Dead head is back of the plane. If you’re lucky you avoid the middle seat.

Dispatch is probably the only positive thing at Jazz. Very new people in the office tho. Make sure you check they placed a sid departure in the flight plan or you’ll look funny asking for more fuel last minute or a reroute to the clearance after requesting a PDC.

Dispatch does not shy away from giving you lots of gas which is a bonus.

Crew scheduling is hit and miss. 50% great people the other %50 are out to screw you and our contract. Make sure you know your alpa contract and your rights for duty day. They WILL push you to fly and break duty.

If you want to come to Jazz to get over worked paid garbage with awful flight benefits great.

Maintenance is average
Lay overs short
Pay garbage
Pension garbage
Alpa mec support garbage
Flow to ac non existent

Speak to any old Jazz pilot and they will tell you how great our contract is. And the reason why they are saying it’s so great is because it secures there retirement. When these pilots leave, they will have left Jazz worse off then when they arrived. They forget to realize that Air Georgian and Sky Regional airlines shut down, and Air Canada paid the penalty to have the CBA canceled. Nothing different than what could happen at Jazz in the next five years if we can’t get something sorted regarding the flow to Air Canada for Jazz pilots. Watch Porter become Jazz 2.0. For Air Canada.

JAZZ is not invincible and has pissed on its pilots the contract and annoyed Air Canada


Moral at Jazz is lower than low and not getting better. If you are new coming to jazz don’t expect much and don’t come here to complain. You knew what you were getting your self into signing up for this operation.

If you are coming from up north, or a smaller operation with 1000 to 3000 hours of flight time, do not come to Jazz. Go to Westjet, Porter, or Air Transat. All of these places would be better career options. Plus you get better flight benefits and pension options. A first officer after three years of flying at WestJet will make the same as a 2nd year captain at Jazz. PIC time on a jet means nothing in this day and age so coming to Jazz to upgrade is worthless considering encore FO are being hired with bare mins to AC.

Over the long term you make more money staying away from Jazz than you would if you stayed. And obviously people come to Jazz wanting to go to Air Canada but don’t bank on that ever happening ever again.

My horse has finished the race at Jazz and I am currently interviewing elsewhere as we speak!


If you read this and following my post is a bunch of trump messages, those are the old Jazz heads mad I am telling it how it is.

This is %100 correct, and should not be forgotten.

[Setmaxpower]

That is the most accurate description of the current pilot life at Jazz. No doubt that will upset the people have chose to stay long term as well as the older pilots. But this is bang on.

[Malfunction]

I feel like a broken record so I’ll explain again online.

Jazz is not the place to be!

Old Jazz pilots are upset Air Georgian and Sky Regional were created and will make it known to you if you come from that operation from the past. They forget to realize they are former Air BC, Air Ontario Etc…they also fail to realize they were treating the job they had as the one and only when clearly it was not

There is no DB pension. That was sold off along time ago so we could get a flow agreement of 60% annual to AC.

There is currently no flow as it stands. Was delayed in the spring summer then subsequently stopped October. It remains to be seen if it will come back for November December. My hunch is no.

There is no upgraded dead heads like the old guard has and there is zero chance it will ever be awarded to the younger group.

Here’s food for thought, the older pilot group always says we have to give something up in order to get something in return.
Why doesn’t the old guard for-fit there c2 passes and dh upgrades for the greater good of the pilot group so we can ask for more pay. This will never happen.

As for pay is abuse. First 4 years as captain and 4 years at FO are a joke and not worth a dime in this current climate.
Lots of FO have to work a second job in order to make ends meet. It’s great for the company because it makes people who otherwise wouldn’t pick up over time do it anyway which helps the pilot shortage issue.

As for the pilot shortage, coming here with a CPL you will be made fun of by all the ATPL pilots. You will be lumped into the Seneca college group which brings the working conditions down dramatically. Don’t forget your crosswind landing limitations!

If you come with an ATPL and manage to upgrade the one
positive is that you transition over to a higher pay scale to afford your gf/bf’s birthday gift. I believe year 4 FO starts at year 2 Captain. Not great but a start.

Have you ever wanted to travel over seas. Our C4 passes will barely get you there. You have to pray an Air Canada call center employees parents don’t try and fly on the same flight as you.

Maintenance generally is okay yet they lack the knowledge for on the fly work. If it goes into maintenance over night it will be repaired. If the aircraft breaks at an outstation with no maintenance base Jazz does not hire contractors to fix the plane. They fly mx out. Good for you if you want an extra day in LGA or BNA. Considering the lay overs are min rest and you never see a single destination longer then it takes to order a pizza and pass out from stress.


Another positive I’ll say is the crew shuttles are fairly good.

Recently they have been scaling back private shuttles.
This has been creating delays for departure because we’re waiting for the hotel shuttle to arrive and wait for the other cattle to get on the bus. This made crew scheduling bring back private shuttles.

Worst case scenario is a dead head day 1 to YUL then you fly to DFW to then take a hotel cattle shuttle for a min rest night at a hotel. Following day is a 3 legs and a dead head back to YUL. Dead head is back of the plane. If you’re lucky you avoid the middle seat.

Dispatch is probably the only positive thing at Jazz. Very new people in the office tho. Make sure you check they placed a sid departure in the flight plan or you’ll look funny asking for more fuel last minute or a reroute to the clearance after requesting a PDC.

Dispatch does not shy away from giving you lots of gas which is a bonus.

Crew scheduling is hit and miss. 50% great people the other %50 are out to screw you and our contract. Make sure you know your alpa contract and your rights for duty day. They WILL push you to fly and break duty.

If you want to come to Jazz to get over worked paid garbage with awful flight benefits great.

Maintenance is average
Lay overs short
Pay garbage
Pension garbage
Alpa mec support garbage
Flow to ac non existent

Speak to any old Jazz pilot and they will tell you how great our contract is. And the reason why they are saying it’s so great is because it secures there retirement. When these pilots leave, they will have left Jazz worse off then when they arrived. They forget to realize that Air Georgian and Sky Regional airlines shut down, and Air Canada paid the penalty to have the CBA canceled. Nothing different than what could happen at Jazz in the next five years if we can’t get something sorted regarding the flow to Air Canada for Jazz pilots. Watch Porter become Jazz 2.0. For Air Canada.

JAZZ is not invincible and has pissed on its pilots the contract and annoyed Air Canada


Moral at Jazz is lower than low and not getting better. If you are new coming to jazz don’t expect much and don’t come here to complain. You knew what you were getting your self into signing up for this operation.

If you are coming from up north, or a smaller operation with 1000 to 3000 hours of flight time, do not come to Jazz. Go to Westjet, Porter, or Air Transat. All of these places would be better career options. Plus you get better flight benefits and pension options. A first officer after three years of flying at WestJet will make the same as a 2nd year captain at Jazz. PIC time on a jet means nothing in this day and age so coming to Jazz to upgrade is worthless considering encore FO are being hired with bare mins to AC.

Over the long term you make more money staying away from Jazz than you would if you stayed. And obviously people come to Jazz wanting to go to Air Canada but don’t bank on that ever happening ever again.

My horse has finished the race at Jazz and I am currently interviewing elsewhere as we speak!


If you read this and following my post is a bunch of trump messages, those are the old Jazz heads mad I am telling it how it is.

This is %100 correct, and should not be forgotten.

Pretty much just waiting for west jet to figure out there new contract and I'm out

[Outlaw58]

I feel like a broken record so I’ll explain again online.

Jazz is not the place to be!

Old Jazz pilots are upset Air Georgian and Sky Regional were created and will make it known to you if you come from that operation from the past. They forget to realize they are former Air BC, Air Ontario Etc…they also fail to realize they were treating the job they had as the one and only when clearly it was not

There is no DB pension. That was sold off along time ago so we could get a flow agreement of 60% annual to AC.

There is currently no flow as it stands. Was delayed in the spring summer then subsequently stopped October. It remains to be seen if it will come back for November December. My hunch is no.

There is no upgraded dead heads like the old guard has and there is zero chance it will ever be awarded to the younger group.

Here’s food for thought, the older pilot group always says we have to give something up in order to get something in return.
Why doesn’t the old guard for-fit there c2 passes and dh upgrades for the greater good of the pilot group so we can ask for more pay. This will never happen.

As for pay is abuse. First 4 years as captain and 4 years at FO are a joke and not worth a dime in this current climate.
Lots of FO have to work a second job in order to make ends meet. It’s great for the company because it makes people who otherwise wouldn’t pick up over time do it anyway which helps the pilot shortage issue.

As for the pilot shortage, coming here with a CPL you will be made fun of by all the ATPL pilots. You will be lumped into the Seneca college group which brings the working conditions down dramatically. Don’t forget your crosswind landing limitations!

If you come with an ATPL and manage to upgrade the one
positive is that you transition over to a higher pay scale to afford your gf/bf’s birthday gift. I believe year 4 FO starts at year 2 Captain. Not great but a start.

Have you ever wanted to travel over seas. Our C4 passes will barely get you there. You have to pray an Air Canada call center employees parents don’t try and fly on the same flight as you.

Maintenance generally is okay yet they lack the knowledge for on the fly work. If it goes into maintenance over night it will be repaired. If the aircraft breaks at an outstation with no maintenance base Jazz does not hire contractors to fix the plane. They fly mx out. Good for you if you want an extra day in LGA or BNA. Considering the lay overs are min rest and you never see a single destination longer then it takes to order a pizza and pass out from stress.


Another positive I’ll say is the crew shuttles are fairly good.

Recently they have been scaling back private shuttles.
This has been creating delays for departure because we’re waiting for the hotel shuttle to arrive and wait for the other cattle to get on the bus. This made crew scheduling bring back private shuttles.

Worst case scenario is a dead head day 1 to YUL then you fly to DFW to then take a hotel cattle shuttle for a min rest night at a hotel. Following day is a 3 legs and a dead head back to YUL. Dead head is back of the plane. If you’re lucky you avoid the middle seat.

Dispatch is probably the only positive thing at Jazz. Very new people in the office tho. Make sure you check they placed a sid departure in the flight plan or you’ll look funny asking for more fuel last minute or a reroute to the clearance after requesting a PDC.

Dispatch does not shy away from giving you lots of gas which is a bonus.

Crew scheduling is hit and miss. 50% great people the other %50 are out to screw you and our contract. Make sure you know your alpa contract and your rights for duty day. They WILL push you to fly and break duty.

If you want to come to Jazz to get over worked paid garbage with awful flight benefits great.

Maintenance is average
Lay overs short
Pay garbage
Pension garbage
Alpa mec support garbage
Flow to ac non existent

Speak to any old Jazz pilot and they will tell you how great our contract is. And the reason why they are saying it’s so great is because it secures there retirement. When these pilots leave, they will have left Jazz worse off then when they arrived. They forget to realize that Air Georgian and Sky Regional airlines shut down, and Air Canada paid the penalty to have the CBA canceled. Nothing different than what could happen at Jazz in the next five years if we can’t get something sorted regarding the flow to Air Canada for Jazz pilots. Watch Porter become Jazz 2.0. For Air Canada.

JAZZ is not invincible and has pissed on its pilots the contract and annoyed Air Canada


Moral at Jazz is lower than low and not getting better. If you are new coming to jazz don’t expect much and don’t come here to complain. You knew what you were getting your self into signing up for this operation.

If you are coming from up north, or a smaller operation with 1000 to 3000 hours of flight time, do not come to Jazz. Go to Westjet, Porter, or Air Transat. All of these places would be better career options. Plus you get better flight benefits and pension options. A first officer after three years of flying at WestJet will make the same as a 2nd year captain at Jazz. PIC time on a jet means nothing in this day and age so coming to Jazz to upgrade is worthless considering encore FO are being hired with bare mins to AC.

Over the long term you make more money staying away from Jazz than you would if you stayed. And obviously people come to Jazz wanting to go to Air Canada but don’t bank on that ever happening ever again.

My horse has finished the race at Jazz and I am currently interviewing elsewhere as we speak!


If you read this and following my post is a bunch of trump messages, those are the old Jazz heads mad I am telling it how it is.

This is %100 correct, and should not be forgotten.

Look at me!! Quoting myself!! LOL:

I chose Jazz 5 years ago, never regretted my choice, because Jazz was and still is the right place to be for ME, at this particular juncture in my life, experience, family balance and life goals. Just because it is right for me, doesn't mean it is for you. If you don't see the attraction, and I say this with the utmost respect, just move along to where you will be happy with your choices and what is right for YOU.

I try to respect other's opinion and leave these smear campaigns be. But please don't speak for me. That shouldn't be forgotten.

58

[Malfunction]

Pilots from Jazz negotiation committee are jumping ship. This should tell you everything..

[kiaszceski]

Pilots from Jazz negotiation committee are jumping ship. This should tell you everything..

TS? FLE? WJ?

[canadian_aviator_4]

The guys on the negotiating committee leaving I imagine do not have db pensions, or took the early retirement and are either done or going to other operators as DEC. I have seen guys up to 7-8 years of seniority leaving, however it’s the first I’m hearing of the negotiating committee leaving. Not that I don’t believe you, just the first I’m hearing it.

[canadian_aviator_4]

I feel like a broken record so I’ll explain again online.

Jazz is not the place to be!

Old Jazz pilots are upset Air Georgian and Sky Regional were created and will make it known to you if you come from that operation from the past. They forget to realize they are former Air BC, Air Ontario Etc…they also fail to realize they were treating the job they had as the one and only when clearly it was not

There is no DB pension. That was sold off along time ago so we could get a flow agreement of 60% annual to AC.

There is currently no flow as it stands. Was delayed in the spring summer then subsequently stopped October. It remains to be seen if it will come back for November December. My hunch is no.

There is no upgraded dead heads like the old guard has and there is zero chance it will ever be awarded to the younger group.

Here’s food for thought, the older pilot group always says we have to give something up in order to get something in return.
Why doesn’t the old guard for-fit there c2 passes and dh upgrades for the greater good of the pilot group so we can ask for more pay. This will never happen.

As for pay is abuse. First 4 years as captain and 4 years at FO are a joke and not worth a dime in this current climate.
Lots of FO have to work a second job in order to make ends meet. It’s great for the company because it makes people who otherwise wouldn’t pick up over time do it anyway which helps the pilot shortage issue.

As for the pilot shortage, coming here with a CPL you will be made fun of by all the ATPL pilots. You will be lumped into the Seneca college group which brings the working conditions down dramatically. Don’t forget your crosswind landing limitations!

If you come with an ATPL and manage to upgrade the one
positive is that you transition over to a higher pay scale to afford your gf/bf’s birthday gift. I believe year 4 FO starts at year 2 Captain. Not great but a start.

Have you ever wanted to travel over seas. Our C4 passes will barely get you there. You have to pray an Air Canada call center employees parents don’t try and fly on the same flight as you.

Maintenance generally is okay yet they lack the knowledge for on the fly work. If it goes into maintenance over night it will be repaired. If the aircraft breaks at an outstation with no maintenance base Jazz does not hire contractors to fix the plane. They fly mx out. Good for you if you want an extra day in LGA or BNA. Considering the lay overs are min rest and you never see a single destination longer then it takes to order a pizza and pass out from stress.


Another positive I’ll say is the crew shuttles are fairly good.

Recently they have been scaling back private shuttles.
This has been creating delays for departure because we’re waiting for the hotel shuttle to arrive and wait for the other cattle to get on the bus. This made crew scheduling bring back private shuttles.

Worst case scenario is a dead head day 1 to YUL then you fly to DFW to then take a hotel cattle shuttle for a min rest night at a hotel. Following day is a 3 legs and a dead head back to YUL. Dead head is back of the plane. If you’re lucky you avoid the middle seat.

Dispatch is probably the only positive thing at Jazz. Very new people in the office tho. Make sure you check they placed a sid departure in the flight plan or you’ll look funny asking for more fuel last minute or a reroute to the clearance after requesting a PDC.

Dispatch does not shy away from giving you lots of gas which is a bonus.

Crew scheduling is hit and miss. 50% great people the other %50 are out to screw you and our contract. Make sure you know your alpa contract and your rights for duty day. They WILL push you to fly and break duty.

If you want to come to Jazz to get over worked paid garbage with awful flight benefits great.

Maintenance is average
Lay overs short
Pay garbage
Pension garbage
Alpa mec support garbage
Flow to ac non existent

Speak to any old Jazz pilot and they will tell you how great our contract is. And the reason why they are saying it’s so great is because it secures there retirement. When these pilots leave, they will have left Jazz worse off then when they arrived. They forget to realize that Air Georgian and Sky Regional airlines shut down, and Air Canada paid the penalty to have the CBA canceled. Nothing different than what could happen at Jazz in the next five years if we can’t get something sorted regarding the flow to Air Canada for Jazz pilots. Watch Porter become Jazz 2.0. For Air Canada.

JAZZ is not invincible and has pissed on its pilots the contract and annoyed Air Canada


Moral at Jazz is lower than low and not getting better. If you are new coming to jazz don’t expect much and don’t come here to complain. You knew what you were getting your self into signing up for this operation.

If you are coming from up north, or a smaller operation with 1000 to 3000 hours of flight time, do not come to Jazz. Go to Westjet, Porter, or Air Transat. All of these places would be better career options. Plus you get better flight benefits and pension options. A first officer after three years of flying at WestJet will make the same as a 2nd year captain at Jazz. PIC time on a jet means nothing in this day and age so coming to Jazz to upgrade is worthless considering encore FO are being hired with bare mins to AC.

Over the long term you make more money staying away from Jazz than you would if you stayed. And obviously people come to Jazz wanting to go to Air Canada but don’t bank on that ever happening ever again.

My horse has finished the race at Jazz and I am currently interviewing elsewhere as we speak!


If you read this and following my post is a bunch of trump messages, those are the old Jazz heads mad I am telling it how it is.

This is %100 correct, and should not be forgotten.

Pretty much just waiting for west jet to figure out there new contract and I'm out

If big gains are made westjet could be the place to be, especially if they put in a ‘me too’ clause to match any future ac gains. The other issue at westjet is the long upgrade time. Maybe with a large fleet expansion this will be reduced.

[KenoraPilot]

Pilots from Jazz negotiation committee are jumping ship. This should tell you everything..

1 Member from the Negots committee resigned and went to WJ 1 year ago. The remaining 4 members are still at it + the 2 extras who have been doing it for 20+ years.

[truedude]

Pilots from Jazz negotiation committee are jumping ship. This should tell you everything..

1 Member from the Negots committee resigned and went to WJ 1 year ago. The remaining 4 members are still at it + the 2 extras who have been doing it for 20+ years.

But you still shouldn't come to Jazz, because there is no pay increase anywhere in sight, and the place is a dumpster fire. Stay far away from here unless for some reason Jazz is the place you want to work at. Otherwise there is absolutely no good reason to come here. You can make more flying a 1900 anywhere, than you will make at Jazz, particularly after deductions.

[canadian_aviator_4]

Pilots from Jazz negotiation committee are jumping ship. This should tell you everything..

1 Member from the Negots committee resigned and went to WJ 1 year ago. The remaining 4 members are still at it + the 2 extras who have been doing it for 20+ years.

But you still shouldn't come to Jazz, because there is no pay increase anywhere in sight, and the place is a dumpster fire. Stay far away from here unless for some reason Jazz is the place you want to work at. Otherwise there is absolutely no good reason to come here. You can make more flying a 1900 anywhere, than you will make at Jazz, particularly after deductions.

This is the frustrating thing about Jazz: No progress towards improving conditions, while all other operators are realizing gains. When you ask the union, they just indicate we have a long term contract in place and there is little they can do.
In fact, if nothing comes regarding improved conditions I would even question the stability of the operation, as it’s shrinking many others are expanding.

A question relating to frustrations with the company, anyone know how many monthly non ac-flow resignations there are(e.g. pilots leaving for all other airlines besides AC)?

[Rowdy]

Pilots from Jazz negotiation committee are jumping ship. This should tell you everything..

1 Member from the Negots committee resigned and went to WJ 1 year ago. The remaining 4 members are still at it + the 2 extras who have been doing it for 20+ years.

Perhaps this is part of the problem...

[CaptDukeNukem]

Pilots from Jazz negotiation committee are jumping ship. This should tell you everything..

1 Member from the Negots committee resigned and went to WJ 1 year ago. The remaining 4 members are still at it + the 2 extras who have been doing it for 20+ years.

Perhaps this is part of the problem...

Yes. Certainly raises eyebrows.

[cdnavater]

1 Member from the Negots committee resigned and went to WJ 1 year ago. The remaining 4 members are still at it + the 2 extras who have been doing it for 20+ years.

Perhaps this is part of the problem...

Yes. Certainly raises eyebrows.

First, I know these guys personally, they are stand up guys and if you read my previous posts on the subject, all, ALL, ALL improvements to the contract have gone to the junior members. So your insinuation is not only ignorant but downright rude!
Second, you need experienced guys negotiating, they have been taking more junior pilots and bringing them into the committee, low and behold you invest resources and they leave, they get training from the experienced guys and down south and then @#$! off so, no, I much prefer guys at the helm who are staying and benefit from long term improvements.

[Little Star]

AC doesn't want to pay Jazz more than what has agreed to under the current CPA. Jazz doesn't want to reduce the profit from the CPA, therefore not going to pay Jazz pilots more. AC up gauges and Jazz shrink its fleet as per current CPA. Jazz trains more college kids and pays them peanuts then they go to AC. That's cheap labour for 8 years. AC hires more OTS pilots to fly the new planes which weaken the competitors. Jazz pilots can grieve the CBA as the employer has violated the 60% rule. Jazz loses the grievance but the financial impact on the company is really small. There's really no financial impact to AC and Jazz unless a pilot flows after the flat pay is over.

If Jazz loses more E1 pilots to the competitors, no problem. Replace the E1 flights with mainline 737 or Jazz Q4. Cancel a few flights here and there and optimize the load.

Jazz and AC win. No need to negotiate or raise the salary.