Hey,john.gottiteflon69 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 8:52 am I feel like a broken record so I’ll explain again online.
Jazz is not the place to be!
Old Jazz pilots are upset Air Georgian and Sky Regional were created and will make it known to you if you come from that operation from the past. They forget to realize they are former Air BC, Air Ontario Etc…they also fail to realize they were treating the job they had as the one and only when clearly it was not
There is no DB pension. That was sold off along time ago so we could get a flow agreement of 60% annual to AC.
There is currently no flow as it stands. Was delayed in the spring summer then subsequently stopped October. It remains to be seen if it will come back for November December. My hunch is no.
There is no upgraded dead heads like the old guard has and there is zero chance it will ever be awarded to the younger group.
Here’s food for thought, the older pilot group always says we have to give something up in order to get something in return.
Why doesn’t the old guard for-fit there c2 passes and dh upgrades for the greater good of the pilot group so we can ask for more pay. This will never happen.
As for pay is abuse. First 4 years as captain and 4 years at FO are a joke and not worth a dime in this current climate.
Lots of FO have to work a second job in order to make ends meet. It’s great for the company because it makes people who otherwise wouldn’t pick up over time do it anyway which helps the pilot shortage issue.
As for the pilot shortage, coming here with a CPL you will be made fun of by all the ATPL pilots. You will be lumped into the Seneca college group which brings the working conditions down dramatically. Don’t forget your crosswind landing limitations!
If you come with an ATPL and manage to upgrade the one
positive is that you transition over to a higher pay scale to afford your gf/bf’s birthday gift. I believe year 4 FO starts at year 2 Captain. Not great but a start.
Have you ever wanted to travel over seas. Our C4 passes will barely get you there. You have to pray an Air Canada call center employees parents don’t try and fly on the same flight as you.
Maintenance generally is okay yet they lack the knowledge for on the fly work. If it goes into maintenance over night it will be repaired. If the aircraft breaks at an outstation with no maintenance base Jazz does not hire contractors to fix the plane. They fly mx out. Good for you if you want an extra day in LGA or BNA. Considering the lay overs are min rest and you never see a single destination longer then it takes to order a pizza and pass out from stress.
Another positive I’ll say is the crew shuttles are fairly good.
Recently they have been scaling back private shuttles.
This has been creating delays for departure because we’re waiting for the hotel shuttle to arrive and wait for the other cattle to get on the bus. This made crew scheduling bring back private shuttles.
Worst case scenario is a dead head day 1 to YUL then you fly to DFW to then take a hotel cattle shuttle for a min rest night at a hotel. Following day is a 3 legs and a dead head back to YUL. Dead head is back of the plane. If you’re lucky you avoid the middle seat.
Dispatch is probably the only positive thing at Jazz. Very new people in the office tho. Make sure you check they placed a sid departure in the flight plan or you’ll look funny asking for more fuel last minute or a reroute to the clearance after requesting a PDC.
Dispatch does not shy away from giving you lots of gas which is a bonus.
Crew scheduling is hit and miss. 50% great people the other %50 are out to screw you and our contract. Make sure you know your alpa contract and your rights for duty day. They WILL push you to fly and break duty.
If you want to come to Jazz to get over worked paid garbage with awful flight benefits great.
Maintenance is average
Lay overs short
Pay garbage
Pension garbage
Alpa mec support garbage
Flow to ac non existent
Speak to any old Jazz pilot and they will tell you how great our contract is. And the reason why they are saying it’s so great is because it secures there retirement. When these pilots leave, they will have left Jazz worse off then when they arrived. They forget to realize that Air Georgian and Sky Regional airlines shut down, and Air Canada paid the penalty to have the CBA canceled. Nothing different than what could happen at Jazz in the next five years if we can’t get something sorted regarding the flow to Air Canada for Jazz pilots. Watch Porter become Jazz 2.0. For Air Canada.
JAZZ is not invincible and has pissed on its pilots the contract and annoyed Air Canada
Moral at Jazz is lower than low and not getting better. If you are new coming to jazz don’t expect much and don’t come here to complain. You knew what you were getting your self into signing up for this operation.
If you are coming from up north, or a smaller operation with 1000 to 3000 hours of flight time, do not come to Jazz. Go to Westjet, Porter, or Air Transat. All of these places would be better career options. Plus you get better flight benefits and pension options. A first officer after three years of flying at WestJet will make the same as a 2nd year captain at Jazz. PIC time on a jet means nothing in this day and age so coming to Jazz to upgrade is worthless considering encore FO are being hired with bare mins to AC.
Over the long term you make more money staying away from Jazz than you would if you stayed. And obviously people come to Jazz wanting to go to Air Canada but don’t bank on that ever happening ever again.
My horse has finished the race at Jazz and I am currently interviewing elsewhere as we speak!
If you read this and following my post is a bunch of trump messages, those are the old Jazz heads mad I am telling it how it is.
Old Jazz Head here, I’m not mad at your post, in fact I find it kind of amusing. There is way too much to unpack but suffice to say you have some of your facts wrong. I don’t know what Air BC and Air Ontario have to do with anything, they were wholly owned by AC and opposite ends of the country but whatever, you hold on to that thought.
Hate to break it to you, you won’t find a DB pension anywhere except government jobs perhaps, maybe that’s where you should focus your career.
So what have you done to improve Jazz, you came here knowing full well the pay and conditions with the sole intention of leaving, in essence suppressing the wages by accepting them, your colleagues thank you!
You can improve Jazz and I do want you to take it the way I intend, leave, leave now, your attitude is poisonous and I’m sure you’re a joy to be around. I have not seen the low morale you speak of, no doubt there is some, but it’s the ones who refuse to accept the consequences of their choices.
I wish you well on your journey, and you leaving will help the Jazz pilots as a whole, the more of “you” the better. After all when we signed the contract, the original 10 year, I specifically asked a VP if they were worried that by lowering the starting pay to that level we wouldn’t be able to hire enough pilots, his response was, I’m paraphrasing, we’ll know in a few months if we went too far.
I voted for it based on that, if pilots didn’t come wages would go up without losing any bargaining capital, guess what, they just kept coming and here we are, listening to whiny children blaming everyone except themselves.
Good luck with you interviews, I hope you get it, for your sake and ours, remember though your choice to leave will have consequences! Maybe good, maybe bad who will you blame, the old Jazz heads?
“Maintenance is average( I have found the maintenance, both line and heavy to be top notch and trustworthy, I’m offended that you even suggested this!)
Lay overs short(Welcome to regional flying)
Pay garbage(See above post)
Pension garbage(See above re pension)
Alpa mec support garbage( if you are referring to support on the flow, they’ve retained lawyers and are working on a plan, they also communicated that it doesn’t seem AC will be able to fulfill their obligations but since it’s an annual requirement, there was literally nothing they could do until the tally at the end of the year, what more do you want)
Flow to ac non existent”(See above)