Do they hire pilots with open work permits (PGWP)?

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digits_
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Re: Do they hire pilots with open work permits (PGWP)?

Post by digits_ »

yashu10 wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 1:46 pm I would suggest you get a flight instructor rating and go that route. I graduated just before covid and I was told it was possible to get a job as an international student anywhere. That hasn't worked out for me yet. I had no prior work experience and this would be my first job ever. The hiring practices in Canada are archaic where word of mouth or knowing someone pays off. More than half the companies want a Canadian Citizen forget PR. Regionals will hire you with PR.
Hmmm... I don't think this is entirely correct. There are plenty of companies that would hire you as a PR. If you have the right to work without limitations (as in 'not limited in time, you can stay with the company forever'), the majority of the company's concerns have been satisfied.

A few thoughts:
- requiring citizenship is an easy way to turn down any PR applicant. That doesn't mean it is really a requirement
- some small companies operating internationally might require you to hold a Canadian passport to make border crossings easier
- there will be much more flexibility for captain positions vs FO positions. The majority of 703 and 704 operators now would likely even hire captains with temporary work permits
- small 703 operators flying domestically should not (and likely won't) care about PR vs Citizenship
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
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-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
yashu10
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Re: Do they hire pilots with open work permits (PGWP)?

Post by yashu10 »

photofly wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:22 pm
yashu10 wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:13 pm Wouldn't training for an instructor rating be considered professional training?
Other useful information:

You don't need a study permit for any course shorter than six months:
https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentr ... 484&top=15

I also understand from various online resources that you can apply for a study permit while you already hold a PGWP, and hold both at the same time. But I can't find an official confirmation. A study permit would qualify as your authorization to study, and the process to get such authorization would simply be to apply for a new study permit.
I was aware that you didn't need a study permit for a course shorter than six months but I thought you couldn't hold a study permit and PGWP at the same time? Could you share your source for that information?
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photofly
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Re: Do they hire pilots with open work permits (PGWP)?

Post by photofly »

digits_ wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:31 pm
A few thoughts:
- requiring citizenship is an easy way to turn down any PR applicant.
I'm 99% sure that refusing to employ someone who is a Permanent Resident because they are not a Canadian citizen is a human rights violation, unless the job has a genuine occupational requirement for citizenship.

Air Canada's recruitment page includes the following requirement for pilots:
"Canadian citizenship or landed immigrant status"

According the PilotCareerCentre website, WestJet requires "current valid passport and Canadian permanent resident card if you are not a holder of a Canadian passport" and for Sunwing the "legal right to live/work in Canada".
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
yashu10
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Re: Do they hire pilots with open work permits (PGWP)?

Post by yashu10 »

photofly wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:47 pm
digits_ wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:31 pm
A few thoughts:
- requiring citizenship is an easy way to turn down any PR applicant.
I'm 99% sure that refusing to employ someone who is a Permanent Resident because they are not a Canadian citizen is a human rights violation, unless the job has a genuine occupational requirement for citizenship.

Air Canada's recruitment page includes the following requirement for pilots:
"Canadian citizenship or landed immigrant status"

According the PilotCareerCentre website, WestJet requires "current valid passport and Canadian permanent resident card if you are not a holder of a Canadian passport" and for Sunwing the "legal right to live/work in Canada".
The Keewatin AD on Avcanada states that a Canadian passport is required which means they don't want someone with PR
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photofly
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Re: Do they hire pilots with open work permits (PGWP)?

Post by photofly »

yashu10 wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:42 pm I was aware that you didn't need a study permit for a course shorter than six months but I thought you couldn't hold a study permit and PGWP at the same time? Could you share your source for that information?
If you google for it, you'll see the same resources as I did. Opinion seems to be split on the subject. Either way, I would not be dissuaded from getting an FI rating if on a PGWP. Your mileage might vary, as you will be the one to lose status in Canada if you get it wrong, not me.
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
photofly
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Re: Do they hire pilots with open work permits (PGWP)?

Post by photofly »

yashu10 wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:50 pm The Keewatin AD on Avcanada states that a Canadian passport is required which means they don't want someone with PR
Appreciating that it might not make any practical difference to a potential applicant to hear this, that may not be a lawful requirement. Alternatively, it may just have been carelessly written.
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
tanxiaoneng
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Re: Do they hire pilots with open work permits (PGWP)?

Post by tanxiaoneng »

yashu10 wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:42 pm
photofly wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:22 pm
yashu10 wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:13 pm Wouldn't training for an instructor rating be considered professional training?
Other useful information:

You don't need a study permit for any course shorter than six months:
https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentr ... 484&top=15

I also understand from various online resources that you can apply for a study permit while you already hold a PGWP, and hold both at the same time. But I can't find an official confirmation. A study permit would qualify as your authorization to study, and the process to get such authorization would simply be to apply for a new study permit.
I was aware that you didn't need a study permit for a course shorter than six months but I thought you couldn't hold a study permit and PGWP at the same time? Could you share your source for that information?
Frankly I think this is a question worth asking an immigration consultant or some consultants, especially if you really want/need FIR training.
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Aspiredtofly
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Re: Do they hire pilots with open work permits (PGWP)?

Post by Aspiredtofly »

tanxiaoneng wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:07 pm
yashu10 wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:42 pm
photofly wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:22 pm
Other useful information:

You don't need a study permit for any course shorter than six months:
https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentr ... 484&top=15

I also understand from various online resources that you can apply for a study permit while you already hold a PGWP, and hold both at the same time. But I can't find an official confirmation. A study permit would qualify as your authorization to study, and the process to get such authorization would simply be to apply for a new study permit.
I was aware that you didn't need a study permit for a course shorter than six months but I thought you couldn't hold a study permit and PGWP at the same time? Could you share your source for that information?
Frankly I think this is a question worth asking an immigration consultant or some consultants, especially if you really want/need FIR training.
Just follow the instructor path and you'll be fine, work for a year or two, get good language profeciency score then look at the diffrent PR programs your eligible for and apply. I know a guy who works at WJ, he went the same exact route and he's doing pretty well
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the_strange__r
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Re: Do they hire pilots with open work permits (PGWP)?

Post by the_strange__r »

tanxiaoneng wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 12:01 am Hi folks,

I'm an international student finishing my CPL and soon multi-IFR. I know many if not most flight schools have no problem hiring graduated candidates with a work permit, but what are the chances at local airlines?

A PGWP work permit doesn't require sponsorship or anything. It is work authorization for graduates to work any job. But somehow I have a feeling that it'll be a problem with airlines.

Anybody has any practical experiences?

Cheers,
Hi, it's been more than 6 months since you posted about this, so did you find a job on your PGWP ?? or You went on the instructor path?
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tanxiaoneng
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Re: Do they hire pilots with open work permits (PGWP)?

Post by tanxiaoneng »

the_strange__r wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:17 pm
tanxiaoneng wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 12:01 am Hi folks,

I'm an international student finishing my CPL and soon multi-IFR. I know many if not most flight schools have no problem hiring graduated candidates with a work permit, but what are the chances at local airlines?

A PGWP work permit doesn't require sponsorship or anything. It is work authorization for graduates to work any job. But somehow I have a feeling that it'll be a problem with airlines.

Anybody has any practical experiences?

Cheers,
Hi, it's been more than 6 months since you posted about this, so did you find a job on your PGWP ?? or You went on the instructor path?
Hey, I'm still in training due to various reasons including the fact that I want a long enough PGWP.

Good news is from talking to representatives from local airlines, they do hire pilots on PGWP. Major airlines would require PR.
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the_strange__r
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Re: Do they hire pilots with open work permits (PGWP)?

Post by the_strange__r »

That's a good thing to know, I am joining MFC in Saskatoon soon as an international student and isn't planning to go with the Instructor path. I know Mainline requires PR, but wasn't sure that local airlines also need PR or work permit actually work.
Thank you
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canadian_aviator_4
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Re: Do they hire pilots with open work permits (PGWP)?

Post by canadian_aviator_4 »

With most 705s you need at least a PR. I’m sure there are exceptions. Plus, if you fly with a mainline not having citizenship could make customs more complicated: if you come from a country with a passport requiring entry visas to the mainline destinations, you will be responsible for obtaining these entry visas.
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fox12
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Re: Do they hire pilots with open work permits (PGWP)?

Post by fox12 »

I am on an open work permit with +800hs, I've been applying for jobs other than Instructing but with no luck. It seems like recruiters prefer candidates without least PR
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HariaM
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Re: Do they hire pilots with open work permits (PGWP)?

Post by HariaM »

fox12 wrote: Mon Jun 19, 2023 5:05 pm I am on an open work permit with +800hs, I've been applying for jobs other than Instructing but with no luck. It seems like recruiters prefer candidates without least PR
If you don't mind me asking how long have you been trying to apply and where have you applied? I have applied at JAZZ and PAL for example and their application portal has the option to select "Valid Open Work Permit". I am in the same boat as you and only started applying a week ago. I do have 1000 hrs of Total time though.
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fox12
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Re: Do they hire pilots with open work permits (PGWP)?

Post by fox12 »

HariaM wrote: Thu Jun 29, 2023 6:45 pm
fox12 wrote: Mon Jun 19, 2023 5:05 pm I am on an open work permit with +800hs, I've been applying for jobs other than Instructing but with no luck. It seems like recruiters prefer candidates without least PR
If you don't mind me asking how long have you been trying to apply and where have you applied? I have applied at JAZZ and PAL for example and their application portal has the option to select "Valid Open Work Permit". I am in the same boat as you and only started applying a week ago. I do have 1000 hrs of Total time though.
it has been a month now, I only got a phone interview from a medieval company, will keep trying
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tupues
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Re: Do they hire pilots with open work permits (PGWP)?

Post by tupues »

canadian_aviator_4 wrote: Sat May 13, 2023 4:33 pm With most 705s you need at least a PR. I’m sure there are exceptions. Plus, if you fly with a mainline not having citizenship could make customs more complicated: if you come from a country with a passport requiring entry visas to the mainline destinations, you will be responsible for obtaining these entry visas.
This is wrong. There are very few countries that require a visa for certain nationalities and not for others when you enter the country as crew. USA is one of them, which is why most Canadian airlines will want a US crew visa if no Canadian passport is held. That's about it. All other destinations you will be traveling on a general declaration, which is the same for everyone on the crew, Canadian or not.
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