Why do AC Pilots ALWAYS take concessions?

[FelixGustof]

I'm following along this saga while debating getting into aviation myself but I have to ask:

Why do AC Pilots always take concessions?

Seems like the one consistent thing from that pilot group

Consistent Concessions

What gives?

Do they not see the pilot shortage? I literally have my pick of jobs out of high school that pay more. It's insane!

[YC87DRVR]

I'm following along this saga while debating getting into aviation myself but I have to ask:

Why do AC Pilots always take concessions?

Seems like the one consistent thing from that pilot group

Consistent Concessions

What gives?

Do they not see the pilot shortage? I literally have my pick of jobs out of high school that pay more. It's insane!

Nice try troll.

Still bitter about a PFO?

[FelixGustof]

I'm following along this saga while debating getting into aviation myself but I have to ask:

Why do AC Pilots always take concessions?

Seems like the one consistent thing from that pilot group

Consistent Concessions

What gives?

Do they not see the pilot shortage? I literally have my pick of jobs out of high school that pay more. It's insane!

Nice try troll.

Still bitter about a PFO?

Lol

No I'm serious. Every job on the planet is getting raises and yet AC pilots are taking concessions for 1% "gains"

Im curious how it got to this point. Are the propoganda emails that convincing? That scary?

Couldn't they negotiate 'temporary lets' vice permanent concessions??

[teacher]

I'm following along this saga while debating getting into aviation myself but I have to ask:

Why do AC Pilots always take concessions?

Seems like the one consistent thing from that pilot group

Consistent Concessions

What gives?

Do they not see the pilot shortage? I literally have my pick of jobs out of high school that pay more. It's insane!

Nice try troll.

Still bitter about a PFO?

PFO or not they are not wrong. Just look at the last 20 years of contracts. It’s always been a net loss. For pilots in general, not just AC. I’ve been doing this a LONG time and it’s been a constant “give” year after year, job after job. Why? Because we love it? Because it’s “so cool”?

The time is now to put an end to the multi decade reduction in pilot wages and working conditions. Today it’s The AC pilots turn, tomorrow it’ll be another pilot group.

I’ll support anyone who stands up to improve our profession that’s been in decline since I got my license a few decades ago!

[RVR6000]

It would be interesting to see how other unions at AC have done since 2003 vs ACPA. And how much the pay gap has decreased between Transat/Westjet pilots and AC pilots since 2003.

[TalkingPie]

It would be interesting to see how other unions at AC have done since 2003 vs ACPA. And how much the pay gap has decreased between Transat/Westjet pilots and AC pilots since 2003.

If you mean other unions of other professions within AC, I'd say that they've done similarly or worse than the pilot group. Working conditions and pay at in-flight, for instance, have slid steadily over the last 10+ years. Crew complement was decreased even while service levels were increased, and new cabin configurations are constantly sacrificing work and stowage areas in the name of cramming in more passengers. The 737 Max is especially egregious, and CUPE cried bloody murder while management ignored them back when the cabin configurations were being finalized. The creation of Rouge introduced a second, lower tier with just awful WAWCON, and as we all know, that happened while the company was making record profits. We're talking forced drafts when cabin crew arrive at the end of a pairing, forced to near 100 hours/month, and all at a lower wage tier than mainline, which follows crew even after they transfer to mainline.

As for other service workers within the company, rampies and customer service agents have seen a couple of small bumps in pay recently... because the lower scale was starting to bump against minimum wage. Full-time rampie pay was bumped up considerably a few months ago - from $16 to $21/hour (part-timers are still at $16) - because just nobody was willing to do that job for that wage after everyone got shit-canned during the pandemic, and flights were getting delayed and cancelled as a result.

I regularly saw ads for customer service agents where AC was asking for at least two - preferably three - spoken languages, to deal with irate passengers all day, for a dollar or two above minimum wage. I've seen the pay scale for crew schedulers (Unifor). It starts at $16/hr.

It's been over a decade since I've had regular contact with AMEs, but the impression I get there isn't a good one, either.

Top management got some sweet bonuses while everyone else was laid off, though.

[altiplano]

FAs are making more than they were on '03.

Rampies are making more than they were in '03.

Agents are making more than they were in '03.

Management is making more than they were in '03.

Pilots just got back to what they were making in '03.

That's how we have done.

[Blueontop]

I'm following along this saga while debating getting into aviation myself but I have to ask:

Why do AC Pilots always take concessions?

Seems like the one consistent thing from that pilot group

Consistent Concessions

What gives?

Do they not see the pilot shortage? I literally have my pick of jobs out of high school that pay more. It's insane!

Nice try troll.

Still bitter about a PFO?

PFO or not they are not wrong. Just look at the last 20 years of contracts. It’s always been a net loss. For pilots in general, not just AC. I’ve been doing this a LONG time and it’s been a constant “give” year after year, job after job. Why? Because we love it? Because it’s “so cool”?

The time is now to put an end to the multi decade reduction in pilot wages and working conditions. Today it’s The AC pilots turn, tomorrow it’ll be another pilot group.

I’ll support anyone who stands up to improve our profession that’s been in decline since I got my license a few decades ago!

Double+1

[DanWEC]

WJ and TS both renegotiate a year or so after AC. TS pilots were told by the union be able to expect "transformative" gains by negoting after AC's.
So the thought process is already in motion, they just have to put pen to paper and make the gains first to lead the pack for the rest!

[Aspiredtofly]

I'm following along this saga while debating getting into aviation myself but I have to ask:

Why do AC Pilots always take concessions?

Seems like the one consistent thing from that pilot group

Consistent Concessions

What gives?

Do they not see the pilot shortage? I literally have my pick of jobs out of high school that pay more. It's insane!

Nice try troll.

Still bitter about a PFO?

PFO or not they are not wrong. Just look at the last 20 years of contracts. It’s always been a net loss. For pilots in general, not just AC. I’ve been doing this a LONG time and it’s been a constant “give” year after year, job after job. Why? Because we love it? Because it’s “so cool”?

The time is now to put an end to the multi decade reduction in pilot wages and working conditions. Today it’s The AC pilots turn, tomorrow it’ll be another pilot group.

I’ll support anyone who stands up to improve our profession that’s been in decline since I got my license a few decades ago!

Goated

+1

[Bede]

It would be interesting to see how other unions at AC have done since 2003 vs ACPA. And how much the pay gap has decreased between Transat/Westjet pilots and AC pilots since 2003.

At WJ, the last CA in 2018 saw a gain of 13.6% over the previous agreement. A good chunk of that was from the years of service that was arbitrated in.

[DanWEC]

Transat up over 30% total in 3 years on some levels through one renewal and one LOU/extension. More if you consider the removal of the NB pay scale. Only 2.5%-3% per year now till 2025 but "promised" much more at that point.

[rudder]

New DAL rates effective 01/01/23:

Year 12 WB CA (777/787/350/330) USD 417/hr

Year 1 FO USD 108/hr
Year 2 FO USD 160-206/hr

[Canadaflyer46]

New DAL rates effective 01/01/23:

Year 12 WB CA (777/787/350/330) USD 417/hr

Year 1 FO USD 108/hr
Year 2 FO USD 160-206/hr

Doing the conversion WB captains there will top out at $567 Canadian an hour and WB FOs at $433 Canadian an hour.
Meanwhile year 1 WB FOs at AC are still being paid less than the FAs in the back.

[Inverted2]

New DAL rates effective 01/01/23:

Year 12 WB CA (777/787/350/330) USD 417/hr

Year 1 FO USD 108/hr
Year 2 FO USD 160-206/hr

Doing the conversion WB captains there will top out at $567 Canadian an hour and WB FOs at $433 Canadian an hour.
Meanwhile year 1 WB FOs at AC are still being paid less than the FAs in the back.

Paid less than a city worker who drives garbage trucks as well.

[rudder]

New DAL rates effective 01/01/23:

Year 12 WB CA (777/787/350/330) USD 417/hr

Year 1 FO USD 108/hr
Year 2 FO USD 160-206/hr

Doing the conversion WB captains there will top out at $567 Canadian an hour and WB FOs at $433 Canadian an hour.
Meanwhile year 1 WB FOs at AC are still being paid less than the FAs in the back.

Don’t forget, employer also contributes an additional 17% of W2 (US version of T4) to a 401k plan.

So that is an aggregate of C$668/hr

[rudder]

.

[newcomer]

At least there are some people on Air Canada's payroll that are brave enough not to take any concessions and got a big raise

[a2btrail]

At least there are some people on Air Canada's payroll that are brave enough not to take any concessions and got a big raise

I threw up hearing the earnings call today LOL. A 100% INCREASE in BASE pay for management. To all AC pilots in the environment we cannot give into concessions whatsoever. It's time they pay up. Enough is enough..