MEC update

[Ratherbe]

MEC Dissenting Opinion

We take no offense to other MEC members disagreeing and voting contrary to us. That is the democratic process and dissent is healthy. We approach each vote as they come, by researching, thinking, and debating them.

Make no mistake, the leaders of the loud “no” camp are the same members who voted against LOA 20-05 and advocated for furloughs instead of saving jobs. In hard times, their solution was simply motivated by cowardice and greed. They wanted pilots laid off, and didn't care if pilots could pay their bills, or if their children had medical care….

One doesn’t have to squint very hard to see through their true motivations when during our most recent MEC meeting, it became abundantly clear during our survey input discussion that many of the fundamentals of the TA language were grossly misunderstood by these members. If they don’t understand the very contents of the agreement that we as representatives are responsible for articulating to you in order to make an informed decision, it’s very clear their time has been spent spinning and selling their “no vote” campaign based on their own “facts.”

[Arnie Pye]

Instead of blaming the "No" leaders, wouldn't this be a failure of the "Yes" camp to sell their side as the best way forward?

[rudder]

At this point, does it really matter what anybody on the ACPA MEC thinks? The membership have spoken.

ACPA’s biggest problem is not the employer. It is the disconnect that (apparently) exists between the membership and the elected reps (and ultimately the professional advisors and CEO).

Get on the same page. That will take time. And it will probably take some new faces and new voices.

The next normal course bargaining round for the AC pilots may be the most consequential in ACPA’s history. Between now and then there may be up to 1000 new members added to the bargaining unit. The demographic shift is obvious and may have been a significant contributing factor in the rejection of the MOA. It will be imperative to have the agenda and priorities aligned with the constituency.

So unless the company returns for MOA2.0 bargaining with a blank cheque, there should be no further reason to bargain in 2022. Elected reps cannot indulge their own hurt feelings. Their duty of representation is to the sentiments of their members. And if they don’t understand that, then move on.

[Cavalier44]

With a historic turnout of 93.3%, nearly 80% of eligible voters voted "no" to this MOA. It was a deeply flawed MOA, one that gave significant concessions to the company in return for minimal gains, at a time when the company is primed for enormous growth and pilot hiring. Whether or not there were MEC members promoting the "no" vote or not, it would have remained deeply unpopular with the membership - that is to say, there is no way that it would have passed.

It is simply not believable to me that 80% of the pilot group would vote "no" based on a misunderstanding of the facts surrounding the proposed MOA - I believe that as pilots we are capable of reviewing any proposal independently and coming to an informed decision regardless of what we're being sold by the MEC, we don't need to have the facts "articulated" to us by either camp. In this case, the result was a resounding condemnation of the direction that ACPA has been taking the pilot group and a signal that the pilot group is ready to take its relationship with the company in a new direction going forward.

Coming on an anonymous forum after the vote after the fact and slandering the MEC members who advocated for the "no" vote while presenting your dissenting opinion does not give the "yes" camp any more credibility - it's embarrassing and shows how out of touch you are with the membership. If you are truly a member of the MEC and you are in disagreement with 80% of the pilot group that you were elected to represent, you should take a clue from others and resign your position.

[unionism101]

MEC Dissenting Opinion

We take no offense to other MEC members disagreeing and voting contrary to us. That is the democratic process and dissent is healthy. We approach each vote as they come, by researching, thinking, and debating them.

Make no mistake, the leaders of the loud “no” camp are the same members who voted against LOA 20-05 and advocated for furloughs instead of saving jobs. In hard times, their solution was simply motivated by cowardice and greed. They wanted pilots laid off, and didn't care if pilots could pay their bills, or if their children had medical care….

One doesn’t have to squint very hard to see through their true motivations when during our most recent MEC meeting, it became abundantly clear during our survey input discussion that many of the fundamentals of the TA language were grossly misunderstood by these members. If they don’t understand the very contents of the agreement that we as representatives are responsible for articulating to you in order to make an informed decision, it’s very clear their time has been spent spinning and selling their “no vote” campaign based on their own “facts.”

Lol 'Ratherbe a Manager'

Truth is this regime and its supporters actually thought they had legitimacy and it was only a few "angry members on the forum"

The never ending asks for concessions and sales jobs had taken its toll on the membership

Ignoring clear messaging of recall & election results, emails, and day to day chatter led to an epic fail of this organization

This week's blowup was a long time coming. Upward & Onward AC Pilots

[Ratherbe]

Actually that update is not from ACPA but from United.

Looking at the Airline Pilot Central forum it looks like there are very similar issues and views south of the border. The lack of trust is at ALPA, APA and others. ACPA is not alone.

Lots of recall campaigns and calls for militant action. There is also a lot of division over the ALPA President election next week. Seems like elected officials and their NC’s can’t do anything right.

[sportingrifle]

[Ratherbe]

Don’t encourage me! I have better things to do.

Here’s some more from a thread “A consistent group of malcontents.” I’m not agreeing with this poster just reporting what I see as similar circumstances.

“ Repeat the tactic; vilify an aggressor, assign victims and be the protector to restore calm with promises of superior leadership and results all based on unearned moral virtue and zero work. Rinse and repeat, over and over. A question union members could ask is do they want to play the victim to The Camps protector? What is alarming is The Camp actually believes they will deliver. If they can just get control of the union, if you would just give them a chance, all while your pilot career is fodder to their insatiable desire for narcissistic validation and power.

These same tactics, frames and tropes are used heavily by union busting consultants, articulated in a book titled Confessions of Union Buster, by M. Levitt. The use of lies, malicious rumor and reputation destruction to instill animosity, anger and distrust to bust unions are being used internally by our own union members against us. How often have we seen these malevolent two-faced actors portrayed in stage, stories and cinema over the course of human civilization?”

[RRJetPilot]

all while your pilot career is fodder to their insatiable desire for narcissistic validation and power.

I think you accurately described yourself.

[canadian_aviator_4]

No idea how Ratherbe can actually be comparing Canada with the US. At least the American pilots can dry their tears with $100 bills, not Kleenex stolen from a layover hotel.

[RippleRock]

Don’t encourage me! I have better things to do.

Here’s some more from a thread “A consistent group of malcontents.” I’m not agreeing with this poster just reporting what I see as similar circumstances.

“ Repeat the tactic; vilify an aggressor, assign victims and be the protector to restore calm with promises of superior leadership and results all based on unearned moral virtue and zero work. Rinse and repeat, over and over. A question union members could ask is do they want to play the victim to The Camps protector? What is alarming is The Camp actually believes they will deliver. If they can just get control of the union, if you would just give them a chance, all while your pilot career is fodder to their insatiable desire for narcissistic validation and power.

These same tactics, frames and tropes are used heavily by union busting consultants, articulated in a book titled Confessions of Union Buster, by M. Levitt. The use of lies, malicious rumor and reputation destruction to instill animosity, anger and distrust to bust unions are being used internally by our own union members against us. How often have we seen these malevolent two-faced actors portrayed in stage, stories and cinema over the course of human civilization?”

OMG, please. You company mouthpieces are a joke. ALPA bad, ACPA good.

Can't make this garbage up. Go ahead and be "encouraged". I'm fascinated to see into the mind of those so eager to violate the Constitution and actively work against unity. I'd love to see the justification used.

I'll get my popcorn.

[rando]

Lol.

How many more pilots would AC have laid off if they voted no to that moa? None! You guys pretended to stop layoffs and paid for it. Permanent concessions for very short term gains if any.

[Ratherbe]

You’re missing my point. I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with the positions of these UAL pilots. Just noting that all is not well at ALPA either. Maybe you can relate better to this post?

“ Six Years with NOTHING to Show: Todd convinced the MEC to overturn the two-term limit granting himself an unprecedented third term as MEC Chairman. Now, after six failed years, he installed a replacement puppet who, while nice enough, is “not the fighter” (in his own words) the United pilots need. Then, Todd threw his replacement under the bus by denying ownership of the Tumi TA, blaming his replacement which has caused complete MEC Chaos. Over half of the UAL MEC has been or is facing recall with more to come. The National Union does not need this nightmare brought to Washington. UAL needs to get their house in order which we, the line pilots, are methodically doing. But for now, it is best we sit this one out. Todd Insler and his cabal were bad for UAL and will be bad for your constituents, too. Keep an eye out for an 11th hour Hail-Mary play whereby the UAL MEC drafts a replacement candidate who will not commit to keeping Todd from ANY appointed ALPA positions. You can cut the head off the snake, but this one will grow two more.


We can do better!”

[Freshredmeat]

I'd trade ACPA's dumpsterfire for United's dysfunction & pay any day

[BTD]

We can do better!”

No we can’t.

[Arnie Pye]

We can do better!”

No we can’t.

Can't or won't?

[Alkasultzer]

Pretty hard to do any worse

We managed to sign a 10 yrs deal before a pilot shortage & historic global airline growth

Then took permanent concessions during said 10 yrs deal

And nearly took more concessions during a historic labour shortage

[Fanblade]

Ratherbe,

ACPA has had more than enough time and chances to “do better”.

Too late.

ACPA should have been listening 3 years ago as this revolution started.

Instead.

They fought it. They tried to fire it. They tried to conflict of interest it. They sat on their hands while the company fired it.

Now the battle is almost over and ACPA is going to change?

[Ratherbe]

We can do better!”

No we can’t.

You're an idiot!! Lol....

That was ALPA you quoted not me! Maybe read before you launch.

[BTD]

We can do better!”

No we can’t.

You're an idiot!! Lol....

That was ALPA you quoted not me! Maybe read before you launch.

You are too kind…

This entire thread was started with you posting a bait and switch. Why title a thread in the Air Canada forum “MEC update” and provide no context that it wasn’t in fact an ACPA update, unless your intent is to deceive.

The implication from your posts seemed to be that because ALPA has some similar issues they are no better than ACPA. I disagree.

My comment was made partly tongue in cheek, but the emphasis should have been…. “WE can’t”(do better then UA with ACPA).

Signed…

Idiot