AME pay scales on the rise !

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Pat Richard
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Re: AME pay scales on the rise !

Post by Pat Richard »

I appreciate Bede's suggestion, but I've also seen Bug's example of experienced guys getting ghosted play out regularly. I managed to do what Bede mentions once in all the decades I've been in this and tried multiple times.

Ultimately, there is general resent from companies that you have the balls to negotiate and are not falling over yourself to immediately take what they offer, irrespective of how desperate they are. AME's are supposed to know their place and presenting terms is a big step out of that shell, with that attitude still prevaling to this day.

Most companies want servitude from AME's not respectful business relationships. That's why so many are whining about TC's upcoming restrictions on AME duty days. Most business plans are going to being going up in smoke because they are so heavily centered on riding AME's hard.

Problem is many ways AME's are to blame because they constantly bend over for this treatment, reasons for which are multiple, but I wont start it here.

I think at this point the most likely outcome is some kind of collaspe of this industry in canada. I don't see how with the continuing crap offers being advertised how there going to recover or attract guys to this gong show.

Truthfully, a part of me is looking forward to it because the industry has worked hard to deserve it.
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: AME pay scales on the rise !

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

Pat Richard wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 11:43 am I appreciate Bede's suggestion, but I've also seen Bug's example of experienced guys getting ghosted play out regularly. I managed to do what Bede mentions once in all the decades I've been in this and tried multiple times.

Ultimately, there is general resent from companies that you have the balls to negotiate and are not falling over yourself to immediately take what they offer, irrespective of how desperate they are. AME's are supposed to know their place and presenting terms is a big step out of that shell, with that attitude still prevaling to this day.

Most companies want servitude from AME's not respectful business relationships. That's why so many are whining about TC's upcoming restrictions on AME duty days. Most business plans are going to being going up in smoke because they are so heavily centered on riding AME's hard.

Problem is many ways AME's are to blame because they constantly bend over for this treatment, reasons for which are multiple, but I wont start it here.

I think at this point the most likely outcome is some kind of collaspe of this industry in canada. I don't see how with the continuing crap offers being advertised how there going to recover or attract guys to this gong show.

Truthfully, a part of me is looking forward to it because the industry has worked hard to deserve it.
TC has been hinting at AME duty days for over 20 years now. I haven’t paid much attention in recent years but is that actually coming to a head?
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-42
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Re: AME pay scales on the rise !

Post by -42 »

The answer to every employers and the governments set dreams are TFW’s and new permanent residents preferably from a place and situation with little or no human rights, labour law/code and the strictest of work ethics. Basically fall asleep at the desk while working if at all possible and breath , eat and sleep your work. They will get it too through begging and playing poor me. All is lost for anyone even thinking of staying in any job as a young person with remotely thinking your free time and life is the most valuable thing. Good luck.
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chowda
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Re: AME pay scales on the rise !

Post by chowda »

I think he might be confusing the recently announced fatigue mngmnt for pilots as also applying to mechs. I also havent heard anything about regulating AME work hours in over 20 years so its still ride them hard and put them to bed wet

I guess there might be a spinoff effect on mechs if pilots are flying less but I havent really thought it out.
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Re: AME pay scales on the rise !

Post by Pat Richard »

chowda wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 4:18 pm I think he might be confusing the recently announced fatigue mngmnt for pilots as also applying to mechs. I also havent heard anything about regulating AME work hours in over 20 years so its still ride them hard and put them to bed wet

I guess there might be a spinoff effect on mechs if pilots are flying less but I havent really thought it out.

Yeh, I couldve sworn I heard it like that awhile back, but it is for piots only. Apologies for that.

Im guessing the same voices that shitcanned it 20 years ago continue to be heard.

Getting ridden hard still in effect :(
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: AME pay scales on the rise !

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

Pat Richard wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 11:43 am I appreciate Bede's suggestion, but I've also seen Bug's example of experienced guys getting ghosted play out regularly. I managed to do what Bede mentions once in all the decades I've been in this and tried multiple times.

Ultimately, there is general resent from companies that you have the balls to negotiate and are not falling over yourself to immediately take what they offer, irrespective of how desperate they are. AME's are supposed to know their place and presenting terms is a big step out of that shell, with that attitude still prevaling to this day.

Most companies want servitude from AME's not respectful business relationships. That's why so many are whining about TC's upcoming restrictions on AME duty days. Most business plans are going to being going up in smoke because they are so heavily centered on riding AME's hard.

Problem is many ways AME's are to blame because they constantly bend over for this treatment, reasons for which are multiple, but I wont start it here.

I think at this point the most likely outcome is some kind of collaspe of this industry in canada. I don't see how with the continuing crap offers being advertised how there going to recover or attract guys to this gong show.

Truthfully, a part of me is looking forward to it because the industry has worked hard to deserve it.
The “collapse” as you say is already happening in rotary. In the past five years some of the largest most financially backed helicopter companies have vanished.

The following are now defunct;
•Highland (over 60 years old)
•Universal (over 60 years old)
•Lakelse (around 20-25 years old )
•Great Slave (about 36 years old)
•Remote (39 years old)

There’s only around 800-1000 commercial and transport category helicopters registered in Canada. The above is about 1-200 aircraft total either left the country, parted out or re registered here (lots with smaller companies). Things were better in the early eighties, and that’s the worst it’s been to my knowledge.

We’re in a different economy and ultimately different world, Canadas flying game really never regained traction after the recession 2007-2009, and that is when I started seeing wages vanish from job postings.
Things are really weird now where everyone is crying labour shortage but won’t adjust wages and working conditions which have been stagnant since the aforementioned recession (14-16 years ago).

Even before that recession however the workforce was fighting tooth and nail and making slow but steady headway with wages and conditions which were a bit behind the times even then. I don’t see any complete collapse in fixed wing albeit it’s the part of the industry I’m least involved with, there is a matter of national security with maintaining transportation for civilians and cargo nationally and globally.
Helicopters are a much different story, they thrive on industrial inaccessibility (hydro electric, well heads etc), exploration and ultimately disaster (fires, floods, environmental contamination, Ems and earthquakes). All of these jobs still need to be manned but many like wildlife survey, pipeline and hydroelectric inspection can now be done by drones.

For AME’s that still want to do this in Canada, I suggest starting your own AMO. It’s not the easiest or most stable way to make a living, but it is the best way to control your work and remuneration .
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-42
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Re: AME pay scales on the rise !

Post by -42 »

National security? That’s hilarious actually. Canada went from 3rd strongest in World War 2 to what? Couple busted subs, some howitzers and a woke, underfunded, under appreciated, grossly, understaffed and demoralized labour pool. Canada and it’s current government couldn’t defend itself or help in a major disaster if it tried. The only thing Canada has is a direct resource bank for the U.S. at a discounted rate, without that we couldn’t fight our way out of a wet paper bag. The civilian side of things show it too, who wants to eat $$$$ for bum pay in Fort whatever or Lake somewhere? Not today Canadians that’s who.
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Re: AME pay scales on the rise !

Post by Vickers vanguard »

Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 2:42 pm
helicopterray wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 2:22 pm
Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 11:13 am

60-90USD, which is more than some in Canada max pay numerically in CAD$. I make much more working 1/10th of what that job would entail.
It's depressing when that is called 'high pay' in the ad.
The fact that someone will bite infuriates me. I made more than that on one astar in the arctic 20 f’n years ago and was home more than half of the year
I’m in type training, corporate airplanes, Bombardier products. Good part 91 or 135 customers ( private or management companies ) with Global platforms in the US pay their guys anything between 140,000 at the lowest of the scale ( typical 160,000 usd ), to 200,000 usd. I’ve been doing this for the last 12 years , and these numbers are very recent. Friend of mine, maintenance manager at Solairus Aviation out of Austin, Tx, has two guys wrenching on globals, 200,000 Usd for one of them and the other pretty close behind.
Better than that, same dude doing the same F...g job as me, a lot less qualified and capable, working for the same employer, but based out of Texas instead on YUL, makes 30% more !
The Canadian market is crap..period. It’s too small to start, and like someone mentioned before, the constant influx of large numbers of immigrants ( close to 600,000 people every year) WITHOUT an equivalent market to sustain this, makes it so that these people are competing for the few quality jobs out there, and since the new guys need to survive ( I’m not blaming anyone), people will be willing to work for less, as they have no choice to feed their kids.
I can go on and on about the other politics regarding immigration, but suffice to say, the country just can’t sustain that many people at once....housing , job market, health care etc etc...it’s a train wreck. They’re sacrificing a whole generation and hope for things to readjust themselves in the future. 25 years ago, an everage of 200,000-250,000 were being accepted into the country, today it’s 600,000 !
Don’t want to hurt any feelings, but this place would have been better if it was the 56th state....
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Re: AME pay scales on the rise !

Post by helicopterray »

Last year's 437000 was the highest number of immigrants ever. Your numbers are off by 50%

https://www.cicnews.com/2023/01/canada- ... #gs.micw78
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-42
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Re: AME pay scales on the rise !

Post by -42 »

Ah yes. Well I hate the term “I have to feed my family”. Your choice to breed makes it not my problem. As far as immigration is concerned suffice to say you need to check your math there and then look at your southern border being absolutely out of control. It’s only a matter of time for you I believe by 2050 if not sooner Caucasian’s will be a minority in the U.S. I have met a lot of Americans over the years and don’t want to judge a whole country but I got to say they are very different people. I am an immigrant so know the struggles but it’s the 2nd generation that figures it out, up until then it’s cheap labour as they feel intimidated. There’s a reason why white European immigration is always the lowest. It’s a fact. Worked with a guy from Bizjet years ago and couldn’t believe how little he made but hey that was years ago. As far as being another State no gracias I don’t particularly enjoy getting shot at or thinking about getting shot every time I go to the mall, a bar, school or anywhere where the gun and violence culture is thriving. A country divided by half says something about its people. Aviation sucks regardless of which side of the border your on, way better, easier ways to make money without doing graveyards and getting AIDS.
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: AME pay scales on the rise !

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

-42 wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:28 am National security? That’s hilarious actually. Canada went from 3rd strongest in World War 2 to what? Couple busted subs, some howitzers and a woke, underfunded, under appreciated, grossly, understaffed and demoralized labour pool. Canada and it’s current government couldn’t defend itself or help in a major disaster if it tried. The only thing Canada has is a direct resource bank for the U.S. at a discounted rate, without that we couldn’t fight our way out of a wet paper bag. The civilian side of things show it too, who wants to eat $$$$ for bum pay in Fort whatever or Lake somewhere? Not today Canadians that’s who.
What I meant by national security was maintaining airlines’ ability to serve basic flying demand, not defence. I agree with everything else you’ve stated.
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Re: AME pay scales on the rise !

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

Vickers vanguard wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 12:03 pm
Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 2:42 pm
helicopterray wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 2:22 pm

It's depressing when that is called 'high pay' in the ad.
The fact that someone will bite infuriates me. I made more than that on one astar in the arctic 20 f’n years ago and was home more than half of the year
I’m in type training, corporate airplanes, Bombardier products. Good part 91 or 135 customers ( private or management companies ) with Global platforms in the US pay their guys anything between 140,000 at the lowest of the scale ( typical 160,000 usd ), to 200,000 usd. I’ve been doing this for the last 12 years , and these numbers are very recent. Friend of mine, maintenance manager at Solairus Aviation out of Austin, Tx, has two guys wrenching on globals, 200,000 Usd for one of them and the other pretty close behind.
Better than that, same dude doing the same F...g job as me, a lot less qualified and capable, working for the same employer, but based out of Texas instead on YUL, makes 30% more !
The Canadian market is crap..period. It’s too small to start, and like someone mentioned before, the constant influx of large numbers of immigrants ( close to 600,000 people every year) WITHOUT an equivalent market to sustain this, makes it so that these people are competing for the few quality jobs out there, and since the new guys need to survive ( I’m not blaming anyone), people will be willing to work for less, as they have no choice to feed their kids.
I can go on and on about the other politics regarding immigration, but suffice to say, the country just can’t sustain that many people at once....housing , job market, health care etc etc...it’s a train wreck. They’re sacrificing a whole generation and hope for things to readjust themselves in the future. 25 years ago, an everage of 200,000-250,000 were being accepted into the country, today it’s 600,000 !
Don’t want to hurt any feelings, but this place would have been better if it was the 56th state....
I’m states side too and your salary numbers are definitely correct. Canada is a joke and aviation is shrinking because of the various factors already discussed in the forums. I’m in helicopters here and make a very comfortable living compared to the dog sh1t Canadas industry turned itself into. Anyone working full time in Canada as an AME on helicopters that isn’t an owner I truly feel bad for.
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Re: AME pay scales on the rise !

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

helicopterray wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 12:27 pm Last year's 437000 was the highest number of immigrants ever. Your numbers are off by 50%

https://www.cicnews.com/2023/01/canada- ... #gs.micw78
431,645 actually, below is an actual citable link for the correct number.
There are definitely socioeconomic differences and problems being generated by such a massive influx of newcomers.
Employers (some not all) are definitely taking advantage of new Canadians and their distressed situations which does drive down rates and increase competition / workload.


https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-re ... -2022.html

Here’s this wonderful liberal government’s plan moving forward below, it’s too many, too fast, with no infrastructure to support these people.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-re ... -2024.html

“A new poll suggests 30 per cent of new, young immigrants to Canada could leave the country in the next two years.
According to a national survey conducted by Leger for the Institute for Canadian Citizenship (ICC), 30 per cent of new Canadians aged 18-34, and 23 per cent of university-educated new Canadians, said they are likely to move to another country in the next two years.“

“ 75 per cent of new Canadians between the ages of 18 and 34 said they believe the rising cost of living means immigrants are less likely to stay in Canada, a statement with which 46 per cent of Canadians in the same age group also agreed.”

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/young-imm ... -1.5835140

And it’s only getting worse, it’s extremely expensive for each and every new Canadian we bring here as well as to Canadian tax payers only to see them bounce back home or states side, that’s money we don’t get back and the damage many create when they leave is abysmal “absconding on debts granted, legal fees, leaving a hole in their employment, etc.”.
We do need immigrants, but this gross negligence by our government piling these people on top of each-other and the rest of Canada is causing more harm than good.
It’s not fair to them and it’s not fair to domestic Canadians. The influx even with the ones that leave each year still out paces infrastructure and desirable property in Canada. That drives up the cost of everything. Look no further than Vancouver and Toronto as a crystal ball of what Canada as a whole is becoming, both unaffordable sh1tholes, and everyone is trapped in a miserable rat race.
There is definitely some enmity from this PMO towards natural born Canadians which I still can’t understand, but definitely makes me wonder what motivates these actions. They have the stats figured out better than any of us after all.
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Re: AME pay scales on the rise !

Post by SeptRepair »

Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 9:32 am For AME’s that still want to do this in Canada, I suggest starting your own AMO. It’s not the easiest or most stable way to make a living, but it is the best way to control your work and remuneration .
Man I wrestle with that thought daily. I have pretty much everything to start an AMO. Love working on my own, love being in control and setting my hours that suit me. But I hate people. The hours can be long somedays. Each day there is easily a couple hours that are not billable time. Guy needs to be gone from home 10-12 every day to make a decent living. Many customers work mon-fri so want to come drop aircraft off on the weekend or later at night in the spring/summer. Then there are the ones who want to "help". No dam way. I could hire an apprentice, but they demand too much money. Some want 25/hr!!! Greedy fucks. :lol:

I enjoy the company I currently work for and do my tours. They are easy going and the crew including pilots are all good people. We have a tight group and all get along well. When I come home off tour I have 2 weeks to go play with the small fixed wing. I'm an Aerosexual as someone here has put it. lol. I like working on the dam things, but I don't give away my labour. Doing it full time I would miss the guys I work with.

I have a clientele that are all private currently so no need for an AMO. The odd commercial aircraft or major repair that may be needed doing is not worth having an AMO for.
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Re: AME pay scales on the rise !

Post by frosti »

Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 2:33 pm TC has been hinting at AME duty days for over 20 years now. I haven’t paid much attention in recent years but is that actually coming to a head?
Wow, even the rcaf has a duty day policy for their aircraft techs. AMEs are getting hosed.
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Re: AME pay scales on the rise !

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

SeptRepair wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 9:01 am
Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 9:32 am For AME’s that still want to do this in Canada, I suggest starting your own AMO. It’s not the easiest or most stable way to make a living, but it is the best way to control your work and remuneration .
Man I wrestle with that thought daily. I have pretty much everything to start an AMO. Love working on my own, love being in control and setting my hours that suit me. But I hate people. The hours can be long somedays. Each day there is easily a couple hours that are not billable time. Guy needs to be gone from home 10-12 every day to make a decent living. Many customers work mon-fri so want to come drop aircraft off on the weekend or later at night in the spring/summer. Then there are the ones who want to "help". No dam way. I could hire an apprentice, but they demand too much money. Some want 25/hr!!! Greedy fucks. :lol:

I enjoy the company I currently work for and do my tours. They are easy going and the crew including pilots are all good people. We have a tight group and all get along well. When I come home off tour I have 2 weeks to go play with the small fixed wing. I'm an Aerosexual as someone here has put it. lol. I like working on the dam things, but I don't give away my labour. Doing it full time I would miss the guys I work with.

I have a clientele that are all private currently so no need for an AMO. The odd commercial aircraft or major repair that may be needed doing is not worth having an AMO for.

“Aerosexual” - that could have been and likely was me lol
How are you signing work for private guys, do you have a work order system you refer to, or do you just make an entry in the journeylog?
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Re: AME pay scales on the rise !

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

frosti wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 10:12 am
Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 2:33 pm TC has been hinting at AME duty days for over 20 years now. I haven’t paid much attention in recent years but is that actually coming to a head?
Wow, even the rcaf has a duty day policy for their aircraft techs. AMEs are getting hosed.
Probably the most abused workforce in Canada, it’s disgusting.
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Re: AME pay scales on the rise !

Post by orion3 »

Good day,
For your rest period please refer to the Canada Labour Code, Part III, para 169.2(1) which reads

Rest period
169.2 (1) Every employee is entitled to and shall be granted a rest period of at least eight consecutive hours between work periods or shifts.

This is why Transport Canada does not currently have it in the CAR's.

Cheers
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Re: AME pay scales on the rise !

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

orion3 wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 11:26 am Good day,
For your rest period please refer to the Canada Labour Code, Part III, para 169.2(1) which reads

Rest period
169.2 (1) Every employee is entitled to and shall be granted a rest period of at least eight consecutive hours between work periods or shifts.

This is why Transport Canada does not currently have it in the CAR's.

Cheers
You can’t read that in a vacuum, and the last I checked it was 11 for full time employees.
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Re: AME pay scales on the rise !

Post by SeptRepair »

Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 10:43 am “Aerosexual” - that could have been and likely was me lol
How are you signing work for private guys, do you have a work order system you refer to, or do you just make an entry in the journeylog?
Hahaha, I love the term. I use quite often in my conversations with people.
I just do detailed log book entries. I hate referencing work order numbers on an entry. It makes it tough for the next AME to look back and see exactly what work was accomplished. Also a good chance that a copy of that work order can be lost or misplaced by the owner.
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