Announced routes

[CaptDukeNukem]

Other than Flair, what airlines are pulling back?

WestJet has significantly reduced flying in the east coast.

A significant decision no doubt for WestJet. How will it be a different outcome for Porter?

Two fold: WestJet reducing its operation out east has reduced the available seats for customers. Porter’s expansion will at the very least replace those flights.

Another is an increase in slot availability at Toronto pearson. Porter could make use of those slots to open new markets or increase frequency to other ones.

[cdnavater]

Congratulations to all of you at Porter. It's nice to see further expansion and decent-paying jobs in the industry to give pilots more options.

Looking for a new job?

Nope, I've got more than enough work in my current organization managing our growth, but instead of tearing down a guy happy his airline is doing well, I'm happy to congratulate them. Best of luck to you in your negotiations at Jazz in 2035.

Thanks, I appreciate the well wishes, even though I see through your thinly veiled sarcasm. We are currently in negotiations and the next “opener” has a clause that has a guaranteed wage adjustment based on inflation, pretty sure this will apply.
As for you, you have to understand at this point, you have never admitted to doing harm to the industry by your choice to bypass the line, that implies you feel no remorse for it and that leaves many, myself included to dismiss you as a selfish individual who would step on their grandmother to get ahead.
Then it appears you are attempting to rub our faces in it.
If I were you, I would have started a new profile and at least attempted to turn over a new leaf, only a narcissist would continue down the same path with all the shade being chucked at them, you’re not taking the high road, you simply found a company that appreciates your lowering the bar.
Good luck to all Flair pilots, I hope it continues growing and creating good jobs, maybe next contract will appreciate FOs as much as the Captains.

[Hangry]

He will forever wear the scarlet S. There is no redemption.

[8895]

Looking for a new job?

Nope, I've got more than enough work in my current organization managing our growth, but instead of tearing down a guy happy his airline is doing well, I'm happy to congratulate them. Best of luck to you in your negotiations at Jazz in 2035.

Thanks, I appreciate the well wishes, even though I see through your thinly veiled sarcasm. We are currently in negotiations and the next “opener” has a clause that has a guaranteed wage adjustment based on inflation, pretty sure this will apply.
As for you, you have to understand at this point, you have never admitted to doing harm to the industry by your choice to bypass the line, that implies you feel no remorse for it and that leaves many, myself included to dismiss you as a selfish individual who would step on their grandmother to get ahead.
Then it appears you are attempting to rub our faces in it.
If I were you, I would have started a new profile and at least attempted to turn over a new leaf, only a narcissist would continue down the same path with all the shade being chucked at them, you’re not taking the high road, you simply found a company that appreciates your lowering the bar.
Good luck to all Flair pilots, I hope it continues growing and creating good jobs, maybe next contract will appreciate FOs as much as the Captains.

If every chief pilot was on Avcan facing the keyboard warriors like yourself then it would be great for the industry, as it would certainly add some degree of transparency.

As for yourself, I wouldn’t be putting down a fellow Canadian pilot, especially if you’re working at jazz of all places lol

[Mrs. Andry]

He will forever wear the scarlet S. There is no redemption.

Actually it's pink.

[cdnavater]

Nope, I've got more than enough work in my current organization managing our growth, but instead of tearing down a guy happy his airline is doing well, I'm happy to congratulate them. Best of luck to you in your negotiations at Jazz in 2035.

Thanks, I appreciate the well wishes, even though I see through your thinly veiled sarcasm. We are currently in negotiations and the next “opener” has a clause that has a guaranteed wage adjustment based on inflation, pretty sure this will apply.
As for you, you have to understand at this point, you have never admitted to doing harm to the industry by your choice to bypass the line, that implies you feel no remorse for it and that leaves many, myself included to dismiss you as a selfish individual who would step on their grandmother to get ahead.
Then it appears you are attempting to rub our faces in it.
If I were you, I would have started a new profile and at least attempted to turn over a new leaf, only a narcissist would continue down the same path with all the shade being chucked at them, you’re not taking the high road, you simply found a company that appreciates your lowering the bar.
Good luck to all Flair pilots, I hope it continues growing and creating good jobs, maybe next contract will appreciate FOs as much as the Captains.

If every chief pilot was on Avcan facing the keyboard warriors like yourself then it would be great for the industry, as it would certainly add some degree of transparency.

As for yourself, I wouldn’t be putting down a fellow Canadian pilot, especially if you’re working at jazz of all places lol

Well considering it’s March and I’ve already made 40 grand(zero OT), pretty hard to justify working elsewhere.

[ashtray]

WestJet has significantly reduced flying in the east coast.

A significant decision no doubt for WestJet. How will it be a different outcome for Porter?

Two fold: WestJet reducing its operation out east has reduced the available seats for customers. Porter’s expansion will at the very least replace those flights.

Another is an increase in slot availability at Toronto pearson. Porter could make use of those slots to open new markets or increase frequency to other ones.

WestJet pulled out of Eastern Canada because there was too much capacity in the market resulting in low yields. As for Pearson, WestJet is protecting those slots, so they won't be available for other airlines. That is the point of my question: What opportunity does Porter see, that WestJet wasn't able to take advantage of? What I see is that WestJet, Air Canada AND Porter are now having to match the ULCC prices on routes where they compete head-to-head. Porter's business model is not an ultra low cost or a low cost model. Its model is intended to compete against Air Canada and WestJet for economy class customers. It was WestJet 20 years ago that aggressively competed against Jetsgo, ultimately leading to that airline's demise. I see this happening again, but this time Porter is caught in the middle, in the fight between the big two carriers and the ULCCs.

[CaptDukeNukem]

A significant decision no doubt for WestJet. How will it be a different outcome for Porter?

Two fold: WestJet reducing its operation out east has reduced the available seats for customers. Porter’s expansion will at the very least replace those flights.

Another is an increase in slot availability at Toronto pearson. Porter could make use of those slots to open new markets or increase frequency to other ones.

WestJet pulled out of Eastern Canada because there was too much capacity in the market resulting in low yields. As for Pearson, WestJet is protecting those slots, so they won't be available for other airlines. That is the point of my question: What opportunity does Porter see, that WestJet wasn't able to take advantage of? What I see is that WestJet, Air Canada AND Porter are now having to match the ULCC prices on routes where they compete head-to-head. Porter's business model is not an ultra low cost or a low cost model. Its model is intended to compete against Air Canada and WestJet for economy class customers. It was WestJet 20 years ago that aggressively competed against Jetsgo, ultimately leading to that airline's demise. I see this happening again, but this time Porter is caught in the middle, in the fight between the big two carriers and the ULCCs.

You may be right. Porter’s product is somewhat different, (especially on the e2) and has a pretty good east coast base. Take a porter flight for yourself and come find out what the hype is about.

WestJet pulled out cuz they have the same issue as everyone else, lack of flight crew and ability to staff flights. Of course they will pull back from the worst markets on their sheets. The west is stronger for WJ. But it doesn’t mean there’s no room for other airlines to make progress in the east. It’s about how things connect to hubs and flight schedules.

[braaap Braap]

A significant decision no doubt for WestJet. How will it be a different outcome for Porter?

Two fold: WestJet reducing its operation out east has reduced the available seats for customers. Porter’s expansion will at the very least replace those flights.

Another is an increase in slot availability at Toronto pearson. Porter could make use of those slots to open new markets or increase frequency to other ones.

WestJet pulled out of Eastern Canada because there was too much capacity in the market resulting in low yields. As for Pearson, WestJet is protecting those slots, so they won't be available for other airlines. That is the point of my question: What opportunity does Porter see, that WestJet wasn't able to take advantage of? What I see is that WestJet, Air Canada AND Porter are now having to match the ULCC prices on routes where they compete head-to-head. Porter's business model is not an ultra low cost or a low cost model. Its model is intended to compete against Air Canada and WestJet for economy class customers. It was WestJet 20 years ago that aggressively competed against Jetsgo, ultimately leading to that airline's demise. I see this happening again, but this time Porter is caught in the middle, in the fight between the big two carriers and the ULCCs.

I think Westjet ran themselves into an identity crisis by trying to take on AC on one end with a premium product and Flair on the other end with the Pink disaster. They lost their special sauce by pissing off their employees then covid came along as the cherry on top.

Not saying Porter isn't immune to the same thing but I think they know whats worked (YTZ terminal being replicated at YHU) and are focused on delivering their product that they know is well received (high Net promoter scores).

[RoAF-Mig21]

You can imagine that'll likely be the plan if you look at how aggressively Porter is expanding with their E2 fleet. There is only so much talent you can acquire operating out of the east.

Most "talent" (not that I would call it that) is out East, since most Embraer pilots fly here. As soon as a Porter opens a YOW base for the E2 my resume will be in.

P.S. Not to say that non Embrarer pilots are not "talent". Any jet pilot can fly the E2 just as well as anyone else.

[braaap Braap]

You can imagine that'll likely be the plan if you look at how aggressively Porter is expanding with their E2 fleet. There is only so much talent you can acquire operating out of the east.

Most "talent" (not that I would call it that) is out East, since most Embraer pilots fly here. As soon as a Porter opens a YOW base for the E2 my resume will be in.

P.S. Not to say that non Embrarer pilots are not "talent". Any jet pilot can fly the E2 just as well as anyone else.

Obviously you know your situation best and there's definitely something to be said for not assuming anything is certain until it happens but I'd be trying to get in to ride the seniority wave as quick as I could. The YOW base is certainly coming (Hangar should be done Q1 of 2024) and until then the commuting policy should be able to make the commute easier (2 flights prior or removed from pairing with no penalty). There are ~14 flights/day from YOW to Toronto.

[goleafsgo]

You can imagine that'll likely be the plan if you look at how aggressively Porter is expanding with their E2 fleet. There is only so much talent you can acquire operating out of the east.

Most "talent" (not that I would call it that) is out East, since most Embraer pilots fly here. As soon as a Porter opens a YOW base for the E2 my resume will be in.

P.S. Not to say that non Embrarer pilots are not "talent". Any jet pilot can fly the E2 just as well as anyone else.

Obviously you know your situation best and there's definitely something to be said for not assuming anything is certain until it happens but I'd be trying to get in to ride the seniority wave as quick as I could. The YOW base is certainly coming (Hangar should be done Q1 of 2024) and until then the commuting policy should be able to make the commute easier (2 flights prior or removed from pairing with no penalty). There are ~14 flights/day from YOW to Toronto.

Is the commuting policy only for porter flights? How would it be for someone to commute from somewhere that porter doesnt serve?

[CaptDukeNukem]

Most "talent" (not that I would call it that) is out East, since most Embraer pilots fly here. As soon as a Porter opens a YOW base for the E2 my resume will be in.

P.S. Not to say that non Embrarer pilots are not "talent". Any jet pilot can fly the E2 just as well as anyone else.

Obviously you know your situation best and there's definitely something to be said for not assuming anything is certain until it happens but I'd be trying to get in to ride the seniority wave as quick as I could. The YOW base is certainly coming (Hangar should be done Q1 of 2024) and until then the commuting policy should be able to make the commute easier (2 flights prior or removed from pairing with no penalty). There are ~14 flights/day from YOW to Toronto.

Is the commuting policy only for porter flights? How would it be for someone to commute from somewhere that porter doesnt serve?

At the moment yes, only porter flights and also…. Between specific city pairs. Needs to be revamped. And will be.

Also, e2 YOW base is imminent. Phase 1 of hangars will be done q3. Phase 2 will be q1 of 2024.

[ashtray]

Two fold: WestJet reducing its operation out east has reduced the available seats for customers. Porter’s expansion will at the very least replace those flights.

Another is an increase in slot availability at Toronto pearson. Porter could make use of those slots to open new markets or increase frequency to other ones.

WestJet pulled out of Eastern Canada because there was too much capacity in the market resulting in low yields. As for Pearson, WestJet is protecting those slots, so they won't be available for other airlines. That is the point of my question: What opportunity does Porter see, that WestJet wasn't able to take advantage of? What I see is that WestJet, Air Canada AND Porter are now having to match the ULCC prices on routes where they compete head-to-head. Porter's business model is not an ultra low cost or a low cost model. Its model is intended to compete against Air Canada and WestJet for economy class customers. It was WestJet 20 years ago that aggressively competed against Jetsgo, ultimately leading to that airline's demise. I see this happening again, but this time Porter is caught in the middle, in the fight between the big two carriers and the ULCCs.

I think Westjet ran themselves into an identity crisis by trying to take on AC on one end with a premium product and Flair on the other end with the Pink disaster. They lost their special sauce by pissing off their employees then covid came along as the cherry on top.

Not saying Porter isn't immune to the same thing but I think they know whats worked (YTZ terminal being replicated at YHU) and are focused on delivering their product that they know is well received (high Net promoter scores).

I think it is more of WestJet quickly running out of growth imitating the Southwest model in Canada, and the only way the airline could grow was to re-position themselves. WestJet's costs also increased over time, as they always do. The problem with replicating what works in the US with what works in Canada, it that the two countries have dissimilar markets. Porter's growth was limited operating out of YTZ. Are they making the same error that WestJet made 20 years ago, and Wardair made in the 1980s, in search of growth? Porter has an advantage operating out of YTZ, little competition, a 'not busy' airport, and convenient location, all contributing to its Net Promoter scores. That will not be the case operating out of Pearson. It has to be one of the worst (and most expensive) airports in North America to operate out of, so I would not be relying on an airline's brand to attract customers. When it comes to air travel the vast majority of Canadians will opt for the airline offering the cheapest fares. On a flight from YYC to YYZ are you really going to pay $150 or more above a ULCC fare to fly on a particular airline? As for YHU, the ULCCs will also look to operate into/out of that airport in the hope of stopping Montrealers from flying out of Burlington to US destinations.

[CaptDukeNukem]

WestJet pulled out of Eastern Canada because there was too much capacity in the market resulting in low yields. As for Pearson, WestJet is protecting those slots, so they won't be available for other airlines. That is the point of my question: What opportunity does Porter see, that WestJet wasn't able to take advantage of? What I see is that WestJet, Air Canada AND Porter are now having to match the ULCC prices on routes where they compete head-to-head. Porter's business model is not an ultra low cost or a low cost model. Its model is intended to compete against Air Canada and WestJet for economy class customers. It was WestJet 20 years ago that aggressively competed against Jetsgo, ultimately leading to that airline's demise. I see this happening again, but this time Porter is caught in the middle, in the fight between the big two carriers and the ULCCs.

I think Westjet ran themselves into an identity crisis by trying to take on AC on one end with a premium product and Flair on the other end with the Pink disaster. They lost their special sauce by pissing off their employees then covid came along as the cherry on top.

Not saying Porter isn't immune to the same thing but I think they know whats worked (YTZ terminal being replicated at YHU) and are focused on delivering their product that they know is well received (high Net promoter scores).

I think it is more of WestJet quickly running out of growth imitating the Southwest model in Canada, and the only way the airline could grow was to re-position themselves. WestJet's costs also increased over time, as they always do. The problem with replicating what works in the US with what works in Canada, it that the two countries have dissimilar markets. Porter's growth was limited operating out of YTZ. Are they making the same error that WestJet made 20 years ago, and Wardair made in the 1980s, in search of growth? Porter has an advantage operating out of YTZ, little competition, a 'not busy' airport, and convenient location, all contributing to its Net Promoter scores. That will not be the case operating out of Pearson. It has to be one of the worst (and most expensive) airports in North America to operate out of, so I would not be relying on an airline's brand to attract customers. When it comes to air travel the vast majority of Canadians will opt for the airline offering the cheapest fares. On a flight from YYC to YYZ are you really going to pay $150 or more above a ULCC fare to fly on a particular airline? As for YHU, the ULCCs will also look to operate into/out of that airport in the hope of stopping Montrealers from flying out of Burlington to US destinations.

You raise valid points. There are a few differences…

Porter’s success model is much much different than ULCCs. They make the real money on estate transactions. They announced the E2 plans during a shutdown. Why? Cuz they made money on the purchase-sale-leaseback of up to 100 embraer aircraft. Embraer needed a North American launch partner. Porter fit the bill, got airplanes for cheap and turned around and sold them to the next guy in line and leased them back.

Look at Ytz terminal. They built it cheap then sold for a non-disclosed amount, believed to be near $750 million dollars. I believe YHU is just the next big plan. YHU has a non-international/transborder clause, but it’s just another option for people travelling domestically. So porter is planning on operating both airports in Montreal

So no, I don’t think they need to fill 80% of their seats to make a dime. They’re offering a product that’s different than most. Might just fly.

I also disagree with people booking the “cheapest fare”. Yes that may be the case with most, but I do believe the flight schedule can be an important factor as well. It’s all about how things connect to each other. And for sure some people will pay a little extra for wifi that makes a 4 hour flight seem like one hour. With beer and wine. From the feedback I’ve been getting, people are happy.

Time will tell, but there’s for sure a new player to the game.

[schnitzel2k3]

You can imagine that'll likely be the plan if you look at how aggressively Porter is expanding with their E2 fleet. There is only so much talent you can acquire operating out of the east.

Most "talent" (not that I would call it that) is out East, since most Embraer pilots fly here. As soon as a Porter opens a YOW base for the E2 my resume will be in.

P.S. Not to say that non Embrarer pilots are not "talent". Any jet pilot can fly the E2 just as well as anyone else.

Most talent in the East has or will be gobbled up by big Red. It's a high demand market for flight crew. Likely going out West and giving Westjet, Lynx and Canada Jetlines a run for their money while the blood is in the water will yield lots of jet rated pilots who can fill DEC positions. Problem is its mondo expensive to train out of province pilots between per diems and hotels.

I would imagine the need for E1 guys is slowly passing as the first few classes have now completed line indoc and will be transitioning to trainer roles.

Looking at their routing YOW and YUL bases can't be far down the line - particularly with them building a YOW mx facility and YHU terminal.

That said a YVR, YYC and YHZ base would serve them very well to round out their rollout to the U.S, Carribean and Mexico.

Fyi - very comfy in the back - Porter reserve is about the same as base fare Air Canada, food is decent, beers are ice cold, and coffee is brewed fresh. Oh and tons of legroom.

I think they nailed this segment of the market.

[Vincepilot]

What do you think about Porter rapid expansion?

''Out of Porter’s planned 253 flights departing from Toronto Pearson International Airport, 56 were cancelled, indicating there might be some difficulties keeping up with objectives." -DH Canada

-https://dailyhive.com/canada/porter-air ... -expansion
-https://www.insauga.com/porter-airlines ... ssissauga/
-https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busines ... l-flights/

[CaptDukeNukem]

What do you think about Porter rapid expansion?

''Out of Porter’s planned 253 flights departing from Toronto Pearson International Airport, 56 were cancelled, indicating there might be some difficulties keeping up with objectives." -DH Canada

-https://dailyhive.com/canada/porter-air ... -expansion
-https://www.insauga.com/porter-airlines ... ssissauga/
-https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busines ... l-flights/

Growing pains. The training schedule was rather ambitious and ran into some problems with only one sim. They’ve secured a second sim in Paris and things are catching up. I believe there was a couple pretty decent weather events during that period that didn’t help the statistics.

[newlygrounded]

WestJet pulled out of Eastern Canada because there was too much capacity in the market resulting in low yields. As for Pearson, WestJet is protecting those slots, so they won't be available for other airlines. That is the point of my question: What opportunity does Porter see, that WestJet wasn't able to take advantage of? What I see is that WestJet, Air Canada AND Porter are now having to match the ULCC prices on routes where they compete head-to-head. Porter's business model is not an ultra low cost or a low cost model. Its model is intended to compete against Air Canada and WestJet for economy class customers. It was WestJet 20 years ago that aggressively competed against Jetsgo, ultimately leading to that airline's demise. I see this happening again, but this time Porter is caught in the middle, in the fight between the big two carriers and the ULCCs.

I think Westjet ran themselves into an identity crisis by trying to take on AC on one end with a premium product and Flair on the other end with the Pink disaster. They lost their special sauce by pissing off their employees then covid came along as the cherry on top.

Not saying Porter isn't immune to the same thing but I think they know whats worked (YTZ terminal being replicated at YHU) and are focused on delivering their product that they know is well received (high Net promoter scores).

I think it is more of WestJet quickly running out of growth imitating the Southwest model in Canada, and the only way the airline could grow was to re-position themselves. WestJet's costs also increased over time, as they always do. The problem with replicating what works in the US with what works in Canada, it that the two countries have dissimilar markets. Porter's growth was limited operating out of YTZ. Are they making the same error that WestJet made 20 years ago, and Wardair made in the 1980s, in search of growth? Porter has an advantage operating out of YTZ, little competition, a 'not busy' airport, and convenient location, all contributing to its Net Promoter scores. That will not be the case operating out of Pearson. It has to be one of the worst (and most expensive) airports in North America to operate out of, so I would not be relying on an airline's brand to attract customers. When it comes to air travel the vast majority of Canadians will opt for the airline offering the cheapest fares. On a flight from YYC to YYZ are you really going to pay $150 or more above a ULCC fare to fly on a particular airline? As for YHU, the ULCCs will also look to operate into/out of that airport in the hope of stopping Montrealers from flying out of Burlington to US destinations.

I priced out a round trip to YVR, carryon alone added like $90 a flight!

[totalflyer]

You were recruiting and you know it, good to know you’re not blind to what’s happening around us, I would not be surprised to see Porter delay some deliveries until summer starts to shape up.

Deliveries ARE being delayed but this is not the companies choice. Pratt is having a difficult time delivering the engines to Embraer. It's an on going issue with the Pratt geared engines... same problem for the A220 from what I'm hearing...