IFR training

[Mike294]

Hey all!

I’m new around here, I’ve done lots of reading, research etc… but I just wanted some more “fresh” input. I’m starting IFR training in YWG this coming February and I was hoping to get a little insight from anyone who may have input to offer.

I know it requires full commitment, to live and breath the information being taught verbatim and being able to apply it to continually new and more complex situations. With that being said I wanted to get some personal experiences from licensed controllers.
What’s your QOL like? How intense is the program? What’s the expectations in terms of passing grades? How much time outside of schedules training time do you need to study in the various stages? Any tips or insight on ways to better your chances of success? I know it’s a low rate when it comes to IFR. Is it reaonsablw to be able to purchase a house and manage the process and move while navigating the program?

Really I just want to know peoples personal experiences in the program and strategies they found beneficial or helpful or whatnot.

Thanks I’m advance,
Mike

[BoardManPaid]

I've copied and pasted my reply from a previous thread. Congrats on getting into the course. May not be the exact answer you're looking for but hope this helps a bit.

I have read many posts on this forum, reddit and the take charge website that make it very clear that IFR (and VFR / FSS for that matter) training is challenging, and I fully get the message. My focus is more on IFR due to the lower check out rate.

I would appreciate any feedback on the following questions:

1) What exactly makes the training difficult? (does it just come down to committing the necessary amount of time or are the concepts difficult to grasp)

2) What would be the main reason students CT?

3) If one is committed and puts in the required time to study do success rates improve for that type of student?

4) I understand that there are 7-8 tests during training, all requiring 80% to pass. What format are the tests, how long are they and are they difficult for those that are prepared to write them... etc?

Thanks to those that respond!

Mofoman
Current Status: YYZ FEAST ASSESSMENT SEPT 2019

1. Training is one of the most difficult things you'll ever do in your life. It's long, intimidating, stressful, frustrating, and humbling. At the beginning the amount of time you put in is directly related to how you will do. Memorizing rules and procedures is the majority of the first 8 months along with basic simulation if you practice you'll be fine. After that while speciality training is similar in studying and memorizing maps, freqs, and details during the later parts of simulation it becomes more about underatanding and being able to apply the rules rather than being able to recite them verbatim. Once you hit the floor working live traffic it has almost nothing to do with the time you put in outside of dont show up late or be sick all the time and stuff like that. Sure there could be situations where you need to review something outside of work but if using breaks as time to review and practice phraseology that should be plenty. It's also important to not do it 24/7 many trainees have burned themselves out or over thought things to where it becomes a negative.

2. Not being able to do the job. Every specialty is different but training comes down to 60-120ish working days where you need to do the job without major mistakes and working busier traffic. Having an O.I during final phase of training or a situation that would of resulted in one with your oji correcting it can end someone's training. Being a dick, late, rude is also never going to help your case regardless of the scenario tho.

3. Yes and No. Getting through the "school" portion is a major achievement but the floor requires you to be able to do the job. Not know everything.

4. Probably more like 10-12 tests. And 8-10 sim evals. If you put in the time you'll pass the tests. Most is just rote memorization and verbatim rules. Simulation evals are stressful and difficult. Most intense part of the school aspect imo.

A huge hurdle in training is being able to know when to stick up for your self and when to fall on your sword. As petty as that may seem.

People commenting that people fail to protect overtime is simply not true. Maybe it's happened in the past but like in every walk of life some guys are dicks who want everyone to fail because they're bitter about something. The opinions that matter are that of your OJI and training supervisor.

Realistically .5% of people who apply or less qualify. But if you can get through it it's one of the best jobs around

[Mike294]

I've copied and pasted my reply from a previous thread. Congrats on getting into the course. May not be the exact answer you're looking for but hope this helps a bit.

I have read many posts on this forum, reddit and the take charge website that make it very clear that IFR (and VFR / FSS for that matter) training is challenging, and I fully get the message. My focus is more on IFR due to the lower check out rate.

I would appreciate any feedback on the following questions:

1) What exactly makes the training difficult? (does it just come down to committing the necessary amount of time or are the concepts difficult to grasp)

2) What would be the main reason students CT?

3) If one is committed and puts in the required time to study do success rates improve for that type of student?

4) I understand that there are 7-8 tests during training, all requiring 80% to pass. What format are the tests, how long are they and are they difficult for those that are prepared to write them... etc?

Thanks to those that respond!

Mofoman
Current Status: YYZ FEAST ASSESSMENT SEPT 2019

1. Training is one of the most difficult things you'll ever do in your life. It's long, intimidating, stressful, frustrating, and humbling. At the beginning the amount of time you put in is directly related to how you will do. Memorizing rules and procedures is the majority of the first 8 months along with basic simulation if you practice you'll be fine. After that while speciality training is similar in studying and memorizing maps, freqs, and details during the later parts of simulation it becomes more about underatanding and being able to apply the rules rather than being able to recite them verbatim. Once you hit the floor working live traffic it has almost nothing to do with the time you put in outside of dont show up late or be sick all the time and stuff like that. Sure there could be situations where you need to review something outside of work but if using breaks as time to review and practice phraseology that should be plenty. It's also important to not do it 24/7 many trainees have burned themselves out or over thought things to where it becomes a negative.

2. Not being able to do the job. Every specialty is different but training comes down to 60-120ish working days where you need to do the job without major mistakes and working busier traffic. Having an O.I during final phase of training or a situation that would of resulted in one with your oji correcting it can end someone's training. Being a dick, late, rude is also never going to help your case regardless of the scenario tho.

3. Yes and No. Getting through the "school" portion is a major achievement but the floor requires you to be able to do the job. Not know everything.

4. Probably more like 10-12 tests. And 8-10 sim evals. If you put in the time you'll pass the tests. Most is just rote memorization and verbatim rules. Simulation evals are stressful and difficult. Most intense part of the school aspect imo.

A huge hurdle in training is being able to know when to stick up for your self and when to fall on your sword. As petty as that may seem.

People commenting that people fail to protect overtime is simply not true. Maybe it's happened in the past but like in every walk of life some guys are dicks who want everyone to fail because they're bitter about something. The opinions that matter are that of your OJI and training supervisor.

Realistically .5% of people who apply or less qualify. But if you can get through it it's one of the best jobs around

Hey thanks so much! That’s great insight that definitely helps my understanding of what I need to do and expect. Couple follow ups if that’s okay;
1.do you have any other general tips or advice for survival? I’m ready to commit myself 100% but just curious if you found ways to help with your success?
2: like I asked in my initial post, and I get this is entirely subjective, but is it possible to juggle major life events while in the earlier stages like buying a home or should I put that on hold for a while?
3:what are the hours like and the flexibility if I have something like a doctors appointment?
Thanks again

[wordstwice]

sorry to takeover the conversation but I think I can help a bit.....

1. Be ready to commit your life to this course if you want to be successful. I have seen many people fail the course and the vast majority of them just didn't put the required time in. That being said, be sure to give yourself a balance and enjoy your life when you can. Go our with friends once in awhile, go to the gym etc etc, but make this course the number 1 priority. Most people review the days work each night for an hour or so and then maybe do a bit more review the Sunday night before they go back on Monday. Studying for exams will be more work of course. I have also seen some people study every night for 3 hours and all day Saturday and Sunday because that it was they needed to do or it just works for them. Although I don't recommend this, if that it what's needed then do it.

2. A major life event may or may not impede your success depending on what it is. For example, buying a house seems fairly benign to me but if you have a baby that would definitely be a hurdle.It all comes down to your tolerance and how you manage your time and stress. Life doesn't need to stop because you're on this course but if you can delay it until you've done training I think it would be better. Remember, after your basic course you have specialty training followed by OJT which doesn't get any easier.

3. Your hours will vary depending on where your course is(for example YVR vs YYZ). you will work Mon-Fri approx 7am-3pm. Some places may do 8-4 or 6-2. Some places the instructors only work 4 days a week so one of the days you show up is called a "study day" where you will be expected to be there but its a free study day. Other places the instructors work 5 days so you don't get this extra free day. If you can book things outside the class schedule that would be preferred but if you have a serious appointment to attend it will be accommodated.

Hope that helps.

[stabilizedapproach]

1.do you have any other general tips or advice for survival? I’m ready to commit myself 100% but just curious if you found ways to help with your success?
2: like I asked in my initial post, and I get this is entirely subjective, but is it possible to juggle major life events while in the earlier stages like buying a home or should I put that on hold for a while?
3:what are the hours like and the flexibility if I have something like a doctors appointment?

1. It's good that you realize the dedication and commitment required. I took meticulous notes on my sim runs so I can mentally debrief myself at home. I often stayed behind to practice and went in on weekends (half-days) to practice more in the simulator. You just have to do what works for you, but the more you practice in the basic simulator, the more you'll expose yourself to scenarios and force your brain to think of workable ways to solve situations.

In OJT, I took lots of notes on phraseology and scenarios. If you have the option to listen to your sits on LiveATC, I highly recommend it. You can critique yourself on phraseology and think of ways to say it/do it better.

Make sure your loved ones know what's going on and why you may not always be at the dinner table for the next couple of years. It sucks and it'll drain you but it's worth it.

2. Depends what you're doing. Maybe don't get a 100 year old fixer-upper that will stress you out, but don't put life on hold either. Whatever you are doing that will add stress to your life, try to make it something that won't affect your rest too much (i.e., having a newborn during training might not be a great idea, but moving into a new place, while stressful, can still give you decent rest).

3. The one-off appointments can be accommodated, but don't make it a habit to book appointments during the course. There are many aspects of the course that cannot move ahead without the entire cohort there.

[bigboypilot]

Study hard man to pass INRAT and procedure for flight training