Sunwing axes TFW plans

[JHR]

A small victory but a potentially significant one!
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/lifestyle/tra ... r-AA151m8D

[schnitzel2k3]

Question is - what is their plan then, cause it's certainly not to pay more for flight crew?

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Question is - what is their plan then, cause it's certainly not to pay more for flight crew?

Nobody in Canada wants to pay, it’s hilarious they’re all doubling down on wages from 1990. Who knows what’s up their sleeve but it won’t be higher wages (not noticeably anyway).

[daedalusx]

Short term ? More OT ? Maybe more Canadian wet lease ? Maybe that Jet lines A320 will finally get some work and leave YYZ and end up down south ?

Maybe they’ll try for more intl wet lease but they might also run into issues since they’re most likely already maxed out, I think you’re not allowed more than 20%... but then again, easier to ask for forgiveness than permission?

Either way, that was an expensive mistake and they’ll probably lose a couple mores crews that will end up at AC by spring, might even see a few going to DEC at Flair. It will be an interesting winter for them.

[rudder]

Short term ? More OT ? Maybe more Canadian wet lease ? Maybe that Jet lines A320 will finally get some work and leave YYZ and end up down south ?

Maybe they’ll try for more intl wet lease but they might also run into issues since they’re most likely already maxed out, I think you’re not allowed more than 20%... but then again, easier to ask for forgiveness than permission?

Either way, that was an expensive mistake and they’ll probably lose a couple mores crews that will end up at AC by spring, might even see a few going to DEC at Flair. It will be an interesting winter for them.

There will not be any wet lease surprises. All wet leases require prior approval from the CTA.

Honest question - where should SW rank in preference for prospective pilots?

[DHC-1 Jockey]

There will not be any wet lease surprises. All wet leases require prior approval from the CTA.

As per the Sunwing MEC memo issued last week: "It should be known the Company can wet lease international carriers for up to 20% of their fleet as per government rules. Any more would not be legal."

If Sunwing is currently below the 20% threshold, couldn't they still add more wet leases? And, that 20% is international wet leases. I presume they could find more domestic lift if required. It seemed like there were more wet leases flying for Sunwing during the 737 MAX grounding than Sunwing-owned planes. This time though, only the company has itself to blame.

[daedalusx]

There will not be any wet lease surprises. All wet leases require prior approval from the CTA.

As per the Sunwing MEC memo issued last week: "It should be known the Company can wet lease international carriers for up to 20% of their fleet as per government rules. Any more would not be legal."

If Sunwing is currently below the 20% threshold, couldn't they still add more wet leases? And, that 20% is international wet leases. I presume they could find more domestic lift if required. It seemed like there were more wet leases flying for Sunwing during the 737 MAX grounding than Sunwing-owned planes. This time though, only the company has itself to blame.

I guess they could also increase their capacity by going with 767 wet leases instead of 738 although the last time they did, it was a bit of a disaster.

[fruz]

If they are under the allowable limit they'll top up. They are short crews now to staff their busy winter season. Outsourcing flying is an option however, are they even able to provide the lift themselves? Canada JetLines will operate a flight a day for Sunwing out of YYZ. This is still short. Sunwing has a busy winter ahead of them with few options to provide the lift.

[MaxAuto]

And just like that Sunwing awarded 9 captain positions for a bid that was issued back around August with an additional bid for 10 and another 10 to follow.

Funny how that worked out for flights ops. They wasted money putting TFW pilots through sim in Europe only to have to do it all over for our own guys who should've been awarded those positions in the first place. Now they'll have to sub charter a few local companies like Jetlines and OWG. They something use WAMOS or Hifly.

Good work by the Union and the pilots who wrote to their MPs. Thanks to the non swg pilots and unions who also voiced their concerns.

[pacman007]

It’s quite obvious they were trying to buy time with TFW untill the merger goes through. I don’t know if WestJet needs 400 ish pilots in their new plan. But who really knows. How many tails does Sunwing actually have?

[BigQ]

18 [Edit: +17 dryleased right now, with a few more incoming that haven't completed import checks]

[averageatbest]

It’s quite obvious they were trying to buy time with TFW untill the merger goes through. I don’t know if WestJet needs 400 ish pilots in their new plan. But who really knows. How many tails does Sunwing actually have?

WestJet is very short pilots too due to the same reasons as Sunwing.

[MaxAuto]

It’s quite obvious they were trying to buy time with TFW untill the merger goes through. I don’t know if WestJet needs 400 ish pilots in their new plan. But who really knows. How many tails does Sunwing actually have?

Summer deployment are still a go for next year and swg is still losing pilots to AC. Hiring and upgrades must continue. The VP said in a early summer memo that hiring and upgrades will continue indefinitely.

It's likely when the purchase is all said and done , a year or two after, the Swoop name will go away and WestJet Vacation, Sunwing Vacation, and Sunwing Airlines will all be managed by Steven Hunter under the partnership. Two 737 AOCs, WestJet and Sunwing Airlines.

[JasonE]

Now reported Sunwing cancelling flights out of the Prairies due to lack of pilots.

[mmm...bacon]

^ Well, if they paid more than $55k/yr to start, then they might have people willing to work for them..

[co-joe]

I hate to watch two strong airlines like Sunwing and Southwest come unglued like this. It hurts to watch. I can't imagine being a highly motivated employee who would bend over backwards for your job watching powerlessly from the sidelines as so many are right now. We all need to learn from this and be more aware of the warning signs at our own companies in the future. SWA is in far far worse shape than WG, they cancelled what 2900 flights in one day?

[Needswork2020]

As a Canadian typed on B737 working overseas... Why on earth would I accept Sunwing's pay.
A B737Capt can earn 15-20K a month easy. No tax, US dollars.

If Canadian airlines don't act, it's over. We live in a global market.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

As a Canadian typed on B737 working overseas... Why on earth would I accept Sunwing's pay.
A B737Capt can earn 15-20K a month easy. No tax, US dollars.

If Canadian airlines don't act, it's over. We live in a global market.

I think they’re pushing the limits of testing what people will actually work for. I see lots of fresher licenses moving into management roles over the older more experienced guys with 1000x the skill and experience.
This story is getting really old, but the fresh eager naive licenses will take less and work harder than the previous guy for whatever carrot management dangles in front of them. The shelf life of what management considers a good AME expires once said fresh license gets some self awareness.
It takes about 3-5 years for most guys (in my experience) to clue in that things aren’t good, once they see the same game being played on newer guys behind them and the guys fed up in front.
There’s very good reason I turn down 98% of offers in Canada, everyone knows I won’t put up with it and I’m damn well aware of “the game”.
Some of the lesser AME’s out there that will eagerly eat dog sh1t for their entire career for whatever personal reasons, are some of the most problematic to the industry while being the most beneficial to the employers.
It’s a fight I fought as an AME right up to and including PRM and higher roles.
I can tell you for certain that most employers are quite content to work understaffed and let aircraft sit rather than open Pandora’s box of paying commensurate with employee worth.
For those that don’t know, and the more naive, lots of these companies are dabbling in lots of other outside industries / investments and airlines are an extremely good and profitable area for some very “crafty” accounting.
That is at its core why most companies don’t need to pay more and will hardly ever give into the workforce’s valid complaints of crap work conditions and low pay.
They can blame, deflect, deny and abscond until the bitter end (which I have personally seen at larger companies I’ve worked with / for over my career).
The Managers and owners know the trends and will continue grinding through fresh licenses until there’s some major change in employment law, the aeronautics act or CAR’s enforcing better conditions.
The only reason I’m on forums like these is to help employees better their understanding of what this “industry” (if you want to call it that), actually is.

[billhill]

Well said. I concur. What the public sees and what most employees believe is not actually what is happening behind the scenes. Generally, to an outsider(one who is not privy to the inner workings, which is 99.9 % of us), the business model makes no sense. There is a reason for that and the owners laugh at us. This is why anybody with some smarts ultimately leaves the industry or simply collects a paycheque and let's the nonsense roll off their shoulders. Only way to stay healthy. They are enormous tax write offs for the people that can use them. And, therefore, very valuable to certain entities. They could care less what the "employee" thinks of the situation. Greed comes to mind.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Well said. I concur. What the public sees and what most employees believe is not actually what is happening behind the scenes. Generally, to an outsider(one who is not privy to the inner workings, which is 99.9 % of us), the business model makes no sense. There is a reason for that and the owners laugh at us. This is why anybody with some smarts ultimately leaves the industry or simply collects a paycheque and let's the nonsense roll off their shoulders. Only way to stay healthy. They are enormous tax write offs for the people that can use them. And, therefore, very valuable to certain entities. They could care less what the "employee" thinks of the situation. Greed comes to mind.

It’s a very good way to “reassign” monetary origin lets just say lol