New pay scales

[Malfunction]

Any information on the new pay scales announced?

[Daniel Cooper]

WJA's pay rates plus 2.5% according to Pilot Career Center.

[ant_321]

I haven’t seen anything official but this was posted in one of the flair threads.

1A242127-1DD2-4B6D-B598-CF15A27AC198.jpeg (232.85 KiB) Viewed 10643 times

23F0F01F-CA15-4B98-8B2E-17A85825D53C.jpeg (428.66 KiB) Viewed 10641 times

[Jean-Pierre]

$99k for Swoop captain. Honey warm up the van.

[piperdriver]

$99k for Swoop captain. Honey warm up the van.

Jesus Christ!!! How can a human being fly a 737 for $99 000 and look at themselves in the mirror?

[JHR]

Absolute dogshit

[Malfunction]

What's the upgrade time look like?

[daedalusx]

What's the upgrade time look like?

> 3 years. Probably > 10-15 years if WJ merge the list by DOH

[rudder]

Anyway you slice it, that entire pay summary defines the embarrassing state of affairs of the airline piloting profession in Canada.

We only have ourselves to blame.

[Aspiredtofly]

These are only garunteed minimums, I'm sure you can make more than that if you pick up some overtime to make a few more bucks

[daedalusx]

These are only garunteed minimums, I'm sure you can make more than that if you pick up some overtime to make a few more bucks

You could say the same thing about Jazz ... Just because you can work 120 hours per month and keep up with inflation doesn’t mean it’s a historical pay scale.

[Canadaflyer46]

These are only garunteed minimums, I'm sure you can make more than that if you pick up some overtime to make a few more bucks

I hope this was intended as sarcasm. Or else it’s the most depressing comment I’ve read in a long time.

[Aspiredtofly]

These are only garunteed minimums, I'm sure you can make more than that if you pick up some overtime to make a few more bucks

I hope this was intended as sarcasm. Or else it’s the most depressing comment I’ve read in a long time.

Take that in both ways I guess . We need help though, I first want to see that new flair pay scale being turned down by majority of pilots working there. We must condemn ourselves for accepting lower standards, if the majority does not reject the offer.

[Dry Guy]

Is Westjet buying Sunwing still or whatever happened with that? I remember Transat pilots getting a big raise when they thought there was going to be a pilot merger with Air Canada.

[digits_]

It's interesting to see for which pilot group they can still enlarge the hiring pool (lower experience requirements) and for which they can't...

[fruz]

These are only garunteed minimums, I'm sure you can make more than that if you pick up some overtime to make a few more bucks

I hope this was intended as sarcasm. Or else it’s the most depressing comment I’ve read in a long time.

Take that in both ways I guess . We need help though, I first want to see that new flair pay scale being turned down by majority of pilots working there. We must condemn ourselves for accepting lower standards, if the majority does not reject the offer.

I'll take it one way. The alternative shouldn't be oh well....there will lots of opportunities to work your bag off and make OT . This comment is exactly the reason our industry is in the state it is in Canada. It's this mentality that needs to be abolished.

[Instructor_Mike]

Pay is big but what about other details in the contract? Reserve rules, min contracted rest, per diems etc?

Hypothetically (and I'd bet this isn't the case) if there was zero per diems then you'd be losing money by comparison to others in the industry. Need to see the big picture.

[safetyfirst123]

Pay is big but what about other details in the contract? Reserve rules, min contracted rest, per diems etc?

Hypothetically (and I'd bet this isn't the case) if there was zero per diems then you'd be losing money by comparison to others in the industry. Need to see the big picture.

This is a mid-contract LOU that is being voted on to raise the wages. The details you mention remain the same as per the current contract, which you can get here:

http://safeflights.ca/uploads/Labour_Ag ... _FINAL.pdf

[Inverted2]

These are only garunteed minimums, I'm sure you can make more than that if you pick up some overtime to make a few more bucks

You could say the same thing about Jazz ... Just because you can work 120 hours per month and keep up with inflation doesn’t mean it’s a historical pay scale.

There’s guys at Jazz that make well over 200k a year but they’re usually the ones that look like a walking dead extra, are divorced or hate their wives and have no life outside of work and enjoy working 24 days a month.

[daedalusx]

These are only garunteed minimums, I'm sure you can make more than that if you pick up some overtime to make a few more bucks

You could say the same thing about Jazz ... Just because you can work 120 hours per month and keep up with inflation doesn’t mean it’s a historical pay scale.

There’s guys at Jazz that make well over 200k a year but they’re usually the ones that look like a walking dead extra, are divorced or hate their wives and have no life outside of work and enjoy working 24 days a month.

I know. There was a jazzie bscaler first year capt that was bragging that he broke 100K on his first year left seat. He would pick up straight time on flica and work out of base and even pay for his hotels. He was working 24-25 days a month and his performance was shit because he was always tired.
For reasons totally unrelated, he was single.
Wonder if it’s the same dude although I doubt that a bscaler would ever be able to break 200k with the new duty regs.

[Ash Ketchum]

The Sunwing pay looks decent on the captain side but still looks a bit low on the FO side. In my opinion a mid sized jet (737, 320, etc) FO should be making $100/hour year one to survive the cost of living in major Canadian cities.

[rudder]

The Sunwing pay looks decent on the captain side but still looks a bit low on the FO side. In my opinion a mid sized jet (737, 320, etc) FO should be making $100/hour year one to survive the cost of living in major Canadian cities.

For too long, carriers have institutionalized ‘probation pay’. That is how they historically have justified low entry level compensation (typically on the FO scale but most recently on the entry level CA scale as well for DEC).

If you don’t want to hire ‘career’ FO’s or are selling rapid upgrade opportunities, start at appropriate FO pay for equipment and just don’t let FO tenure increase beyond a reasonable scale (say 6-8 years assuming all affected pilots are eligible for upgrade within this time frame).

If a pilot is qualified, they should be paid as qualified from Day 1.

[Instructor_Mike]

This is a mid-contract LOU that is being voted on to raise the wages. The details you mention remain the same as per the current contract, which you can get here:

http://safeflights.ca/uploads/Labour_Ag ... _FINAL.pdf

Thanks for that. Some interesting stuff in there. Some is pretty good.

[Ash Ketchum]

The Sunwing pay looks decent on the captain side but still looks a bit low on the FO side. In my opinion a mid sized jet (737, 320, etc) FO should be making $100/hour year one to survive the cost of living in major Canadian cities.

For too long, carriers have institutionalized ‘probation pay’. That is how they historically have justified low entry level compensation (typically on the FO scale but most recently on the entry level CA scale as well for DEC).

If you don’t want to hire ‘career’ FO’s or are selling rapid upgrade opportunities, start at appropriate FO pay for equipment and just don’t let FO tenure increase beyond a reasonable scale (say 6-8 years assuming all affected pilots are eligible for upgrade within this time frame).

If a pilot is qualified, they should be paid as qualified from Day 1.

Agreed. These aren't entry level jobs (unlike some 737 FOs in Europe) but the FO pay is entry level. I think it's realistic for a first year FO to make 2/3 of a first year captain on the same airframe.

[Blueontop]

What is the most realistic upgrade time now?