New Bid id out- almost 600 more

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:12 pm

Just looking quickly it looks like 126 EMJ Captains in YYZ as well as 86 777 Capts.

EMJ YVR base

In total something like 500+ openings.

backon3 · Post by **backon3** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:37 pm

Where can you see this bid... myacops?

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:29 pm

acpa.ca
login.
or acaeronet, tools.
Enjoy.

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:15 pm

Just did a quick peak earlier but it looks like this

YUL increases by 10 Capts 7 F/Os' and no R/Ps'

YYZ increases by 239 Capts 234 F/Os' and 42 R/Ps'

YWG decreases by 8 Capts' and 7 F/O's

YVR increases by 35 Capts' 18 F/Os' and loses 4 R/Ps'

Total required is another 566 pilots. All those hired up to March 2006 are eligible to bid.

socrates · Post by **socrates** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:25 pm

Just a question about the bid

Does it represent how many pilots are required for all the new a/c deliveries or just how many pilots are now required until the next bid

Thanks for the info Jaques

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:55 pm

JS,

Thanks for the info.

29chev · Post by **29chev** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:47 pm

I believe the bid has a 12 month window meaning, thats what we need for the next 12 months........to do it we need to start hireing 50 a month......I'll believe it when it happens not before!

sportingrifle · Post by **sportingrifle** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:13 am

Few thoughts on AC bids in general. At most airlines, the primary purpose of an equipment bid is to crew the airline. Not so at AC. At AC, the primary purpose of the bid is to be either the carrot or stick (upbid or downbid) to get the pilots to agree to Flt. Ops. managements' wants/needs/wishes. Example, the A340 going to YWG, the airline running out of pilots last summer and cancelling flights, etc. etc. etc. The distant secondary purpose of the equipment bid is crewing the airline. The bids look farther forward than the known business plans and several more will come along before the current one is ever even close to implemented. Remember that right now AC needs its cranky pilots to give them big time "lets" to keep things even close to on the rails this summer - time for the tried and true "carrot" bid. My advice is that if you are showing furlough, don't slit your wrists just yet. And if you are showing 777 left seat, don't go out and get a new house/car/boat/wife just yet!

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:50 am

Actually

This bid takes into account all the retirements up to March 2007. That should be in the 150 pilot area.

It includes the introduction of the 777 into YYZ. Around 173 pilots. ( The following bid should show additional 777s' in YVR )

It includes more Embraers ( some in YVR ) which are arriving at a rate of close to 2 per month. That is around another 300 pilots give or take.

Socrates

To answer your question, there are 2 bids per year. This bid takes into account the retirements as stated above, the remaining Embraers and only some of the 777s'. The next arrivals will be going to YVR apparently.

At some point, the 340 will show as surplus because they will be going back to Airbus. At that point the pilots on those aircraft will move to other airframes. Normally they would displace other junior pilots however, retirements are over 150 per year at this point.

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:57 am

Few thoughts on AC bids in general. At most airlines, the primary purpose of the equipment bid is to crew the airline. Not so at AC. The primary purpose of the bid at AC is to crew the airline. Yep. I look forward to bids. I find it exciting and rewarding to advance my career and fly nice airplanes on a very nice route structure. This one in particular will please many pilots from senior ones to the most junior.

balls · Post by **balls** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:55 am

tonysoprano wrote:Few thoughts on AC bids ingeneral. At most airlines, the primary purpose of the equipment bid is to crew the airline. Not so at AC. The primary purpose of the bid is to crew the airline. Yep. I look forward to bids. I find it exciting and rewarding to advance my career and fly nice airplanes on a very nice route structure. This one in particular will please many pilots from senior ones to the most junior.

ANYONE thinking about YVR should be bidding that on this bid even if it is just a transfer, because it is about as open as it ever has been, or may be.

popo · Post by **popo** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:57 am

isn't this the biggest bid at AC, since the airline exists?

exciting time,
100% from the top!!!

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 10:06 am

balls.
Just so not to confuse anybody I was responding to a thread by mr. sportingrifle above.
Cheers.

Donald · Post by **Donald** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:47 pm

So what does it mean? IS AC going to suddenly ramp things up to another level of hiring, or is this something that needs to be worked out internally for a couple months before the effect will be felt?

Take this as a couple of questions from an outsider who doesn't work at a company with "bids"...

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:03 pm

hiring will continue at it's normal pase. this is not necessarilly good because we are very short pilots right now. by and large the bid is used by insiders to determine their next desired position and at what base. it will take some time to train everyone to their new positions and some may never even get trained. "on paper" they will show their new positions and get paid as such.

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:04 pm

To answer your question Donald. Yes and yes.

The main source of growth is in the Embraer and 777. The 777 effect will take awhile to be felt because the airplane has yet to arrive and for reasons Tony mentions. It will mean that people will be leaving various other airplanes to begin 777 training which will leave a vacuum on their respective aircraft types.

The Embraer effect will be almost immediate because aircraft are arriving quickly and the right seat is an entry level position. I have been told that we will be attempting to train 40 pilots per month in the upcoming months.

In a company that has a bidding system, any vacancies towards the top are great for the pilots as almost everyone moves. The 777 provides this. The Embraer provides left seat opportunities for anyone from the A340 F/O down.

So you can either move up onto another aircraft type or remain on the one you are on and enjoy the benefits of a more senior position than what you had before.

Donald · Post by **Donald** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:55 pm

Thanks for the speedy reply!

balls · Post by **balls** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:53 pm

Jaques Strappe wrote:To answer your question Donald. Yes and yes.

The main source of growth is in the Embraer and 777. The 777 effect will take awhile to be felt because the airplane has yet to arrive and for reasons Tony mentions. It will mean that people will be leaving various other airplanes to begin 777 training which will leave a vacuum on their respective aircraft types.

The Embraer effect will be almost immediate because aircraft are arriving quickly and the right seat is an entry level position. I have been told that we will be attempting to train 40 pilots per month in the upcoming months.

In a company that has a bidding system, any vacancies towards the top are great for the pilots as almost everyone moves. The 777 provides this. The Embraer provides left seat opportunities for anyone from the A340 F/O down.

So you can either move up onto another aircraft type or remain on the one you are on and enjoy the benefits of a more senior position than what you had before.

Forgive me posting after a couple of Buds...

This explanation works pretty well. It is true that a 777 type will create a wave of up training, as the removal will in reverse. You have to understand, the above explanation is a bit simplistic probably to make it understandable.

There are many variables. Particularly at AC, the 'left seat' is not the be all end all for many pilots, so the bidding to the Capt chair on an EMJ might not be as clear as an outsider might imagine. It is certainly not straight line seniority. There are a certain number of comfortable positions on any equipment, and the working conditons from a senior person on any equipment to a reserve block are light years apart.

The conditions of work and wages are not that attractive for something like a EMJ, even though that is probably as nice jet aircraft (not being very EMJ clued in) similiar to a DC9 (which I flew for a decade or so. I'll ride on my first EMJ tomorrow!) At the bottom the conditions of a reserve Captain will be tough and probably for the very keen. There are probably more attractive FO and RP slots that people will hang onto as they accrue seniority. Base, family, commuting, working conditions and pay are some of the factors maybe.

The transition from an OTS type to an EMJ captain in a short period time will also be stressful. If you fail a course during probation, you don't have very many safety nets. Bidding a left seat in less than two years might require a serious amount of thought and weighing of time, effort, stress and risking your entire future if you somehow fail (not that likely if you work hard and understand what is expected).

If you are in a position to bid an EMJ left seat while still on probation, with not too much service time at AC, I suggest you seek some counsel and really be clear on the process.

Hopefully that is comprehensible. Back to the Bud.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:48 pm

Just for curiosity, anyone know how many Jazz guys they interview/mo? Are they still at about 1100 on the Jazz sen. list.

Sage · Post by **Sage** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:58 pm

I overheard a couple of guys next to me talking in the crew room and they had interviews. They both had early to almost mid 2000 seniority. This was about a month ago. That would probably make it in the 1100s on the list.

swervin · Post by **swervin** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:00 pm

They are at least in the 1160's for the Jazz guys.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:35 pm

That's crazy, I'm low 1300's. With the rate of hiring...will be nice.

socrates · Post by **socrates** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:48 pm

If someone was hired in 2000 at jazz laid off and then called back last august, trained on the rj, interviewed at Air Canada and hired.

Would they still have to wait the full 2 years or could they make the jump to AC?

If not how does jazz excpect to loose another 200 to mainline if none of them can leave for 2 years.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:30 pm

socrates wrote:
If not how does jazz excpect to loose another 200 to mainline if none of them can leave for 2 years.

Excellent and interesting point. If these interview numbers come up. I can see the guys that got hired at Jazz in Sept get an interview within the next 6-12 months.

mduffy · Post by **mduffy** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:55 pm

RE: BIDDING LEFT SEAT WHILE STILL ON PROBATION

Perhaps I'm missing something...

I definately agree that it is important to have as much experience as possible before accepting the left seat at AC. However, if the position (on the EMJ in this case) is awarded to a pilot on probabtion, it has obviously gone VERY low on the seniority list. If this is the case, and you turned down the position, it could only go to someone lower. So would you not be the most experienced person available if you won the bid?

So why would you not bid left seat on this new airplane? Is it simply for fear of failing? Who would the airline put in that seat if you DID NOT bid it?