Cluster @#$!

[EPR]

Sunwing...get your shit together!

[CL-Skadoo!]

Southwest is honouring Sunwing tickets this week. Passengers will be looking like Steve Martin trying to rent a car in Planes, Trains and Automobiles

[pelmet]

Do they have a shortage of aircraft or flight crew.

[digits_]

Do they have a shortage of aircraft or flight crew.

Thunder Bay sources seem to think it's flight crew. There was a plane sitting there for a while without crew.

[safetyfirst123]

Do they have a shortage of aircraft or flight crew.

Shortage of aircrew. You get what you pay for. If you pay bottom of the barrel wages, you lose over 100 pilots in a year, and don't hire enough to replace them, never mind have enough crew for the growth planned this winter. Oh, and their failed attempt to bring in Temporary Foreign Workers didn't help.

[pacman007]

Would you even spend a penny in your operation when you know it’s not your problem anymore? As soon as the merger goes through this mess will be dumped on WestJet. I’m sure WestJet is regretting buying this mess.

[fish4life]

Would you even spend a penny in your operation when you know it’s not your problem anymore? As soon as the merger goes through this mess will be dumped on WestJet. I’m sure WestJet is regretting buying this mess.

I’d assume there is clauses that would require certain levels of operational ability/ continuity/ performance metrics. You typically can’t just sell a business then just say F it and mix drop outta there allowing it to fail before the deal is closed.

[AirFrame]

This was posted as a reply to the question "don't they have software to manage aircraft and crew?" in another group i'm in...

There is a program. It optimizes crews and aircraft. It reroutes based on cost etc. The problem is, there was little if NO human intervention and when it started rerouting it started a domino effect.

Eventually it got so bad that scheduling lost track of where planes were. Where pilots were and where flight attendants were. The program may have send you on a double DH from FLL to ATL - AUS, but then the program cancelled the FLL-ATL leg and never considered the DH pilot to not be on the second leg. Scheduling would think the pilot made it to AUS when they were still in FLL. Multiply that times 4000 and then add the 20000 FA into the mix and you have a system with no head. There is more to it but that's the start. It got so bad that crews were sitting around, legal, 2 pilots, 4 flight attendants and they were pleading with scheduling to let them operate the leg. But the computer would see NO CREW assigned or MISING Crew and then cancel it automatically. While 175 paying passengers sat either ON the plane at the gate or in the terminal.

The cascading cancellations pushed more and more passengers to flights that had ZERO seats. So the next flight would show 2 days later etc. However, the computer program was already cancelling 2 days out because it would think there would be NO crew, or No plane. Basically it went rogue. It took 2 days for it to run off the rails completely but when it did, it was unable to save itself. Plans kept falling apart when schedulers tried to intervene, and crews kept being out of position and unable to get ahold of scheduling to put themselves on it. Dispatch tried, scheduling couldn't deal with the load of questions and requests coming in. The phones were tied up, some guys took 8 hours to reach a person. 8 fucking hours. Ive seen pictures of 23 hour calls and counting. I don't know fi they are real but there ya go.

We had crews with no hotels, crews stranded in terminals, lounges, bus stations, you name it. People were JAd into 3, 4 days past their last day, making them illegal for their next trips. MORE PULLS. MORE CANCELLATIONS. MORE problems. It took them 6 days to figure out the operation was lost and it needed a FULL reset. It needed to stop booking people which they finally did. YOU won't be able to book until the 30th at the earliest I believe. As of now they are trying to move the rest of the stranded PAX and crews to their bases on a 30 percent operational schedule. Thats 3000 cancelled flights a day.

[Dash.Trash]

This was posted as a reply to the question "don't they have software to manage aircraft and crew?" in another group i'm in...

There is a program. It optimizes crews and aircraft. It reroutes based on cost etc. The problem is, there was little if NO human intervention and when it started rerouting it started a domino effect.

Eventually it got so bad that scheduling lost track of where planes were. Where pilots were and where flight attendants were. The program may have send you on a double DH from FLL to ATL - AUS, but then the program cancelled the FLL-ATL leg and never considered the DH pilot to not be on the second leg. Scheduling would think the pilot made it to AUS when they were still in FLL. Multiply that times 4000 and then add the 20000 FA into the mix and you have a system with no head. There is more to it but that's the start. It got so bad that crews were sitting around, legal, 2 pilots, 4 flight attendants and they were pleading with scheduling to let them operate the leg. But the computer would see NO CREW assigned or MISING Crew and then cancel it automatically. While 175 paying passengers sat either ON the plane at the gate or in the terminal.

The cascading cancellations pushed more and more passengers to flights that had ZERO seats. So the next flight would show 2 days later etc. However, the computer program was already cancelling 2 days out because it would think there would be NO crew, or No plane. Basically it went rogue. It took 2 days for it to run off the rails completely but when it did, it was unable to save itself. Plans kept falling apart when schedulers tried to intervene, and crews kept being out of position and unable to get ahold of scheduling to put themselves on it. Dispatch tried, scheduling couldn't deal with the load of questions and requests coming in. The phones were tied up, some guys took 8 hours to reach a person. 8 fucking hours. Ive seen pictures of 23 hour calls and counting. I don't know fi they are real but there ya go.

We had crews with no hotels, crews stranded in terminals, lounges, bus stations, you name it. People were JAd into 3, 4 days past their last day, making them illegal for their next trips. MORE PULLS. MORE CANCELLATIONS. MORE problems. It took them 6 days to figure out the operation was lost and it needed a FULL reset. It needed to stop booking people which they finally did. YOU won't be able to book until the 30th at the earliest I believe. As of now they are trying to move the rest of the stranded PAX and crews to their bases on a 30 percent operational schedule. Thats 3000 cancelled flights a day.

This is referring to Southwest, not Sunwing.

[rudder]

The damage to the Sunwing brand the last 10 days has been monumental.

ONEX must be thrilled.

[daedalusx]

An unfortunate yet very predictable outcome.

[Arnie Pye]

They are short 60 TFW pilots and likely behind the normal hiring curve like every other airline.

It's a double edged sward; If it weren't for the fact that they couldn't bring in foreign pilots, the pay scales likely wouldn't have gone up. You can't expect hire, train/upgrade new pilots in less than 4 weeks. It is unfortunately as a traveller that this disruption happened over Christmas.

[Donald]

There's not an airline in Canada that isn't short crews or equipment right now, or isn't actively turning away work.

Sunwing just got the double whammy of winter weather throwing in a bunch of IROPS.

Of course when you are scheduled for maximum utilization, there's not much room for recovery. Just look at how many flights Flair cancelled out of YKF after their overrun.

[withaflash]

Was the Sunwing crew shortage avoidable? To a degree I suppose.

Reality is, action on salaries in Canada should have been taken long time ago. If I was a board member here, seeing what was happening in the US in the past 12-18 months, the immediate action should be to address the compensation to at least stem the flow to other Canadian operators, as a short term measure. Nothing was done and now its too late.

Hope other carriers take note - this is not a Sunwing only problem - you could be next.

[co-joe]

Southwest is honouring Sunwing tickets this week. Passengers will be looking like Steve Martin trying to rent a car in Planes, Trains and Automobiles

Are you making a joke? SWA has been cancelling 2-3000 flights a day, there in no position to honour their own passengers tickets, never mind someone else's.

[CL-Skadoo!]

Southwest is honouring Sunwing tickets this week. Passengers will be looking like Steve Martin trying to rent a car in Planes, Trains and Automobiles

Are you making a joke? SWA has been cancelling 2-3000 flights a day, there in no position to honour their own passengers tickets, never mind someone else's.

Yes, it was very much a joke. I was indirectly saying it could be worse.

[Inverted2]

I think we are canceling more flights at Jazz this week than sunwing. Just not quite as exciting for the news since they get recovered quicker/easier than vacation destinations.

[canadian_aviator_4]

I think we are canceling more flights at Jazz this week than sunwing. Just not quite as exciting for the news since they get recovered quicker/easier than vacation destinations.

Can confirm, plus jazz is not only cancelling flights but routes. Many routes. The greater the delay in improving pay, the more jazz will bleed and the more cancelations will occur. We are the lowest paid regional and moral as mentioned in other posts is extremely low: Most pilots not currently with a db pension or planning their exit asap.

[co-joe]

I think we are canceling more flights at Jazz this week than sunwing. Just not quite as exciting for the news since they get recovered quicker/easier than vacation destinations.

yet I'd way rather be stranded in Cuba, than half the places Jazz flies.

[AirFrame]

This is referring to Southwest, not Sunwing.

Dang... You're right! Who would have thought there'd be *two* airlines starting with S having complete meltdowns at the same time...