Calling Level

airway · Post by **airway** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:31 pm

I was just told today that it is no longer a requirement to call level in radar airspace in Canada. Can anybody confirm that?

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:49 pm

yup...confirmed.

NAYA · Post by **NAYA** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:50 pm

Any reference?
It's about time!

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:57 pm

It came out in an FOM amendment at Air Canada which compies with CARs but honestly, I am too lazy to go look it up. I am sure someone here will have it. It came out about the same time they eliminated the RVSM transition areas and made everything above FL290 RVSM.

You may want to ask this question in the ATS section of the forum. Those guys would probably have a reference.

YVR Dude · Post by **YVR Dude** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:08 am

Interesting though...as I asked a controller this very question not a couple of weeks ago..his answer was that we still needed to call level. Now i am really confused..so is this new rule fairly recent...like a couple of days or so??

switchflicker · Post by **switchflicker** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:55 am

No need to call level in RVSM airspace nor any airspace in the USA

I also am too lazy to look it up

airway · Post by **airway** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:11 am

I'm pretty sure that you are still required to call level in non-radar airspace in Canada. I don't know about the States.

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:24 pm

It should be mailed to you in the new A.I.P. update. OOPS! No more A.I.P.!

Start surfin' that web...

-istp

abc xyz · Post by **abc xyz** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:07 pm

Call me naive but doesnt it seem more logical now than ever before to call level due to RVSM. Nice heads up with only 1000 ft of room.

I guess technology is better than the human brain after all.

airway · Post by **airway** » Thu May 25, 2006 8:00 pm

From the AIM, Pg. 239

8.4 Altitude Reports
Pilots shall report reaching the altitude to which the flight has been initially cleared. When climbing or descending en route, pilots shall report when leaving a previously assigned altitude and when reaching the assigned altitude.

On initial contact with ATC or when changing from one ATC frequency to another, pilots of IFR and controlled VFR flights shall state the assigned cruising altitude and, when applicable, the altitude through which the aircraft is climbing or descending.

Schlem · Post by **Schlem** » Thu May 25, 2006 11:15 pm

I see no mention of eliminating altitude reports in the new AIM and have not heard about it in my company.

In the US it hasn't been required since I can remember but in Canada ATC is still asking us to report level in radar airspace.

Are you sure Jock Strap or is AC jumping the gun on it?

arewethereyet · Post by **arewethereyet** » Fri May 26, 2006 7:12 am

no longer required to call level in RVSM airspace.

like2fly · Post by **like2fly** » Fri May 26, 2006 7:48 am

To add to airway's post -

AIM (dated April 13 to October 26, 2006) Page 289;

12.16.4(f) states:

PILOT LEVEL CALL: Pilots should report "reaching" any altitude assigned within RVSM non-radar airspace.

Schlem · Post by **Schlem** » Fri May 26, 2006 8:32 am

We are asked to call level all the time in radar controlled RVSM. Where is this information about no level calls coming from?

ei ei owe · Post by **ei ei owe** » Fri May 26, 2006 12:32 pm

Seems like more and more now you're asked to report level and if you don't hear that initial request, just go on your way.
I'm sure that some judgement should play a part. If the controller's super busy and didn't ask to report level there's probably a reason for it.

ca787546 · Post by **ca787546** » Fri May 26, 2006 5:48 pm

well, the way it is usually done here in south america is to call level when reaching, leaving the fl, or if it is your first communication in that frequency. Dunno how things are being done in Canada these days.
Also, if no radar service, we have to call level with each position report.
DNB

Turkey · Post by **Turkey** » Sat May 27, 2006 9:25 am

Interesting to note that those who are, quote "too lazy to go look it up" are also the ones who have started to assume that the call is not longer required in Canada. Wonder how many other rules (that they're too lazy to go look up) they have chosen stop following...

gr8gazu · Post by **gr8gazu** » Sat May 27, 2006 10:08 am

Also interesting to note, that I haven't called level in radar controlled airspace in about 8 or 10 years. Albiet I no longer do much flying in the Canadian north. Have a listen to ATC and see how often you hear a non solicted report. In a radar environment, they are not required in Canada or the US and most of Western Europe.

Tiger Lead · Post by **Tiger Lead** » Sat May 27, 2006 10:32 am

You people who say you don't have to call level in Canada. please quote the section of air regs that tell us we don't have to call level radar controlled airspace or not. And believe it or not Air Canada does not set the rules yet. I know that they act like they do but as far as I know they are just another airline.
Tiger Lead

Schlem · Post by **Schlem** » Sun May 28, 2006 3:11 pm

cpl_atc wrote: If that were the case, then where's the section of the CARs that states that if you are flying an A320, you must complain about the ride every time checking in on frequency?

You should hear airline pilots in the US whine about the ride... they're all wimps!

talkinghead · Post by **talkinghead** » Sun May 28, 2006 4:22 pm

I have been calling lvl for 14 years. I think I am going to keep doing it until some ATC-er tells me "thats enough".

ca787546 · Post by **ca787546** » Sun May 28, 2006 4:29 pm

Hey CPL! Watch out! I love my 320 and I'll defend it until I get a get promoted to another jet

Cheers,
DNB

gr8gazu · Post by **gr8gazu** » Sun May 28, 2006 5:38 pm

cpl_atc wrote:
gr8gazu wrote:Also interesting to note, that I haven't called level in radar controlled airspace in about 8 or 10 years. Albiet I no longer do much flying in the Canadian north. Have a listen to ATC and see how often you hear a non solicted report. In a radar environment, they are not required in Canada or the US and most of Western Europe.
Again, I don't know where that assumption is coming from. There are many reports, etc, that are supposed to be made (entering holds, for instance) that are outlined only in the AIM, as far as I know. AC's claim that because it doesn't appear in the CARs means that you don't have to do it is BS.

If that were the case, then where's the section of the CARs that states that if you are flying an A320, you must complain about the ride every time checking in on frequency?

The information came out in an Aeronautical Information Circular about 10 (maybe more) years ago which is when most people flying within radar covered areas stopped reporting level. Sorry I don't have a reference for it as I have a tendency to discard expired documents.

This does not mean, we don't check in with our altitude or assigned altitude, only that once we level from a climb or descent, we don't report it.

Do whatever floats your boat boys and girls!

BTW, We ask for ride reports for crew and passenger comfort and safety, not to complain. I know some ATC types have recently been labeled as having a God complex. If that is so, then stop the fkn turbulence altogether!

airway · Post by **airway** » Tue May 30, 2006 6:48 pm

Well, I just spent an hour searching the CAR's and could not find any reference to altitude reports. My best guess is that this requirement was removed or was never in the CAR's, and the people updating the AIM haven't caught it yet.

Which leaves a bit of a conundrum. Do I comply with the AIM, which is supposed to comply with the CAR's, or do I stop calling level because I can't find it in the CAR's (possibly due to my faulty CAR's search)?

corporate joe · Post by **corporate joe** » Tue May 30, 2006 6:54 pm

it takes 3 seconds to call level, and sometimes you can include it with another call.
Better overly safe than sorry.

Calling Level

Calling Level

Reporting Level