Jazz Approach is back up

[airway]

https://www.cae.com/civil-aviation/beco ... z-approach

$126,000. Remedial training, headset, uniforms, laptops, and books are not included.
20 months
Training courses: PPL, CPL, multi IFR, CRJ200 rating, integrated ATPL training.
No flying experience preferred. You have to take their PPL course even if you already have a PPL.
Upon successful completion of the training program and subject to certain conditions, the graduates of the Jazz Approach WILL (my emphasis) join Jazz as first officers.

Minimum Education: Post-secondary degree, diploma or equivalent. Does a 1 year Art diploma qualify?

How does this cost compare with doing all this on your own these days? I think a big draw is it sounds like it's almost a guaranteed job at Jazz unless you really screw up.

[digits_]

So you pay for your own typerating in exchange for a guaranteed job? Might be worth it, tough decision though. Sounds a bit like the European system. It has pros and cons.

[Loon-A-Tic]

That a big financial commitment for the lowest paying FO position in Canada, even buy KD is going to be a luxury item.

[piperdriver]

I think this may have drawn a lot of interest 20 years ago but the new generation is catching on and realizing pilot wages are not keeping pace with the cost of living, not even close. Therefore they are choosing other careers that are not only stable but also much more financially lucrative. In all honesty I would sooner be water boarded than sign up for this.

[RoAF-Mig21]

So do you get a guarantee CRJ spot? How does that work with ALPA? What if you join Jazz and you end up on the Q400 or E175?

[rookiepilot]

CAE / JAZZ should charge 250K. Bet lotsa peeps would pay anything to wear those bars…..

[JasonE]

Seriously??

[flyingcanuck]

So do you get a guarantee CRJ spot? How does that work with ALPA? What if you join Jazz and you end up on the Q400 or E175?

well that's also another problem, they are definitely not working with the union on this

[DanWEC]

126k? I can't think of another profession that even comes close to that sort of ROI. Unreal.

[Inverted2]

For that money you could be well on your way to being a doctor or some other profession where you won’t have to spend several years making CRAP, then get your dream shot at AC where you make several more years of CRAP.

[RoAF-Mig21]

I'm curious, how does this "path" compare (cost wise) to going the traditional way?

1. Get your PPL
2. Get your CPL
3. Time build
4. Get your Multi
5. Get your multi IFR
6. Get an instructor rating.

It was about $75,000 when I did my flight training ah... a number of years back (late 2000s). Adjusted for inflation, I'd say that number is close to $100,000 now for all the things mentioned above. What's a C172 go for per hour nowadays? What about a twin engine? What are the instructor rates?

Now you work as an instructor making base pay for a few years, go up North, fly right seat on a King Air (or have to pay a bond if you leave early), left seat on the King Air then apply to Jazz (or another regional) and you get an F/O spot.

I get that $126,000 is a big chunk of change, but I don't think it's that much more than going the traditional way and you're more or less guaranteed a job with a seniority number after 18 months.

Am I seeing this wrong? (Genuenly asking). When you factor in the cost of everything, I don't think it's it's much more.

[C-GGGQ]

For one thing with no way to get Pic Time when they say “career as fo’s” in their ad they mean it.

[Rowdy]

Mid 2000's I had my CPL/MIFR/Floats etc all in for 66k.

I ran the numbers two years ago for a friends younger brother and it was around 85k. I think a lot of the college programs are 3-4years and about 100-115k.

126k for a two year full on program? Without a degree attached? No Bueno

[vanislepilot]

I'm curious, how does this "path" compare (cost wise) to going the traditional way?

1. Get your PPL
2. Get your CPL
3. Time build
4. Get your Multi
5. Get your multi IFR
6. Get an instructor rating.

It was about $75,000 when I did my flight training ah... a number of years back (late 2000s). Adjusted for inflation, I'd say that number is close to $100,000 now for all the things mentioned above. What's a C172 go for per hour nowadays? What about a twin engine? What are the instructor rates?

Now you work as an instructor making base pay for a few years, go up North, fly right seat on a King Air (or have to pay a bond if you leave early), left seat on the King Air then apply to Jazz (or another regional) and you get an F/O spot.

I get that $126,000 is a big chunk of change, but I don't think it's that much more than going the traditional way and you're more or less guaranteed a job with a seniority number after 18 months.

Am I seeing this wrong? (Genuenly asking). When you factor in the cost of everything, I don't think it's it's much more.

Jeez, did they serve steak during your preflights? I haven't heard of anyone paying that much for traditional training.

Did all my training at a local flying school in Edmonton. Finished in 2018. Even went for instructor rating after too. With all that and PPL included I totaled just under $50,000. Plus I was able to have government student loans cover all of it except my PPL (Ran me just under 12k out of pocket)

126,000 is astronomically higher than the traditional way. Plus I'm not too sure you can get a student loan for that.

[RoAF-Mig21]

Jeez, did they serve steak during your preflights? I haven't heard of anyone paying that much for traditional training.

Did all my training at a local flying school in Edmonton. Finished in 2018. Even went for instructor rating after too. With all that and PPL included I totaled just under $50,000. Plus I was able to have government student loans cover all of it except my PPL (Ran me just under 12k out of pocket)

126,000 is astronomically higher than the traditional way. Plus I'm not too sure you can get a student loan for that.

No, but it was a bit more expensive than most. I trained out of YYC. At Springbang you could never get a spot it was so damn busy. We used to do circuits at Biseker, AB.

I paid somewhere between $60,000 to $65,000 in total. A lot of that was because I didn't finish my training in the min amount of time. I got my PPL at 52 hrs, not 45 for example. That's what happens when you stretch things out. When you pay as you go, you end up with big gaps in between flights and get rusty.

Anyway, on top of all that an instructor rating was between $8,000 to $12,000... So yeah $75,000. (Note I didn't get an instructor rating. I was just posting the cost for comparison purposes).

I'm trying to remember the rates per hour. I think the DA20 around $140 per hour and the DA40 around $160. I think it was around $200 with the instructor when all was said and done. No, it was not cheap. I didn't do it on a farm with a Cessna 150. The fact you paid $50,000 is amazing. Good for you. I remember at one point we ended up paying landing fees at YYC ($25 per flight then jumped up to $40) so eventually the school left YYC for High River, AB.

It took me 3 years to get everything done, but I finished with zero debt. I was lucky to have a really good office job that paid well. Taxes were low, I had roommates, I was careful with my spendings and I was able to spend 75% of my paycheck on flying.

P.S. I also had some government student loans that I only partly had to pay back (which I did before I finished everything). I did pay most of my stuff out of pocket though.

[vanislepilot]

Jeez, did they serve steak during your preflights? I haven't heard of anyone paying that much for traditional training.

Did all my training at a local flying school in Edmonton. Finished in 2018. Even went for instructor rating after too. With all that and PPL included I totaled just under $50,000. Plus I was able to have government student loans cover all of it except my PPL (Ran me just under 12k out of pocket)

126,000 is astronomically higher than the traditional way. Plus I'm not too sure you can get a student loan for that.

No, but it was a bit more expensive than most. I trained out of YYC. At Springbang you could never get a spot it was so damn busy. We used to do circuits at Biseker, AB.

I paid somewhere between $60,000 to $65,000 in total. A lot of that was because I didn't finish my training in the min amount of time. I got my PPL at 52 hrs, not 45 for example. That's what happens when you stretch things out. When you pay as you go, you end up with big gaps in between flights and get rusty.

Anyway, on top of all that an instructor rating was between $8,000 to $12,000... So yeah $75,000. (Note I didn't get an instructor rating. I was just posting the cost for comparison purposes).

I'm trying to remember the rates per hour. I think the DA20 around $140 per hour and the DA40 around $160. I think it was around $200 with the instructor when all was said and done. No, it was not cheap. I didn't do it on a farm with a Cessna 150. The fact you paid $50,000 is amazing. Good for you. I remember at one point we ended up paying landing fees at YYC ($25 per flight then jumped up to $40) so eventually the school left YYC for High River, AB.

It took me 3 years to get everything done, but I finished with zero debt. I was lucky to have a really good office job that paid well. Taxes were low, I had roommates, I was careful with my spendings and I was able to spend 75% of my paycheck on flying.

P.S. I also had some government student loans that I only partly had to pay back (which I did before I finished everything). I did pay most of my stuff out of pocket though.

Wow! I didn't even know they had a school out of YYC. Those landing fees are outrageous. I could see how those small expenses can really add up over time. They are pulling the same crap in Oshawa too ($15 I believe) and people do circuits at Peterborough and Lindsay

Kudos to you for finishing the ppl at 52 hours... not many guys doing that anymore these days

One way I kept it cheap was maximize productivity in that 200 hour window. Get the PPL done fast then time build to 150hrs and do your CPL flt test (I dont know if you were always able to do this) Then do your multi and multi IFR to get you up to around 185 hrs. A bit more time building left and you're done everything at 200.

[airway]

For one thing with no way to get Pic Time when they say “career as fo’s” in their ad they mean it.

Add another $25,000 or so to rent a Cessna to get the 250 PIC hours for the ATPL.

[RoAF-Mig21]

For one thing with no way to get Pic Time when they say “career as fo’s” in their ad they mean it.

Add another $25,000 or so to rent a Cessna to get the 250 PIC hours for the ATPL.

I think Jazz offers PICUS up to 100 hrs, so it's 150 PIC. You need 100 hrs to get your CPL so in the end you need to rent a plane for about 50 hrs, right? That's over $10K, if you pay around $200 per hour.

[goldeneagle]

126k for a two year full on program? Without a degree attached? No Bueno

A degree has no effect on how you advance in the airlines. Airlines are union shops, seniority means everything, qualifications mean nothing. As long as you meet the basic requirements, then it's BOTL and everybody advances equally from there on.

My advice to anybody that want's a career as an airline pilot today, take the quickest path to a seniority number, because once you have it, that number will rule your QOL, upgrades, and paycheque for the rest of your life.

For one thing with no way to get Pic Time when they say “career as fo’s” in their ad they mean it.

Add another $25,000 or so to rent a Cessna to get the 250 PIC hours for the ATPL.

Huh ?

So when you have the CPL you have 100PIC in the book already, it's a requirement. The ATPL requires 250, and 100 of that can be pretend-a-pic done as an FO at work. No need to rent for 250 hours, maybe 50 if one isn't sharp enough to figure out ways of getting the time on somebody else dime.

There are plenty of opportunities to do a little flying on the side and put some PIC time in the book.

[Rowdy]

golden eagle,

Post secondary does effect whether you get hired. But correct, means nothing once that has happened. It would be advantageous to have something else to fall back on, when at 25 you're still right seat and the industry tanks again or another CVID event happens and you're furloughed again....

My point was.. 126k for an interview for an FO at JAZZ without getting any post secondary accreditation(because all the proper college programs at bare min give you a diploma) is atrociously over priced. You're better off elsewhere for that cost.

Nobody gives a hoot about a CRJ200 type rating with 205hrs TT either. Which BTW we are ridding from our fleet.

As for the PIC time. Good luck at any 705 getting PICUS these days. The LTC's are all too busy with upgrades and new hire indoc to do any. Sure one could go try elsewhere, but with the current scheduling and the requirement for approval from flight ops, again, good luck getting any in a reasonable time frame.

Jazz approach is a publicity stunt. They were expecting people in droves and planned for classes of +20 and got 5.