New pay scales

[RobertChow]

See attachment.

[tango308]

What is the rate of increase each January? Is it 2 percent or is it more?

Side note: That E2 CA pay scale, dang!

[Arnie Pye]

Good product, good salaries. If you're in the YYZ area and have Captain qualifications, you've got some good options.

[Dronepiper]

This is the start of a revolution!!! Remember that this is only a 132 seat airplane. Just think about what the conversion would be for a 737 or an A320.

[Aviationanalysis234]

Game changer. Porter has now significantly exceeded most competitor Canadian Airlines pay, including Flair and WJ. Great product, great company, great pay! That's how you fill 50 new jets with happy pilots.

[canadian_aviator_4]

If you are embraer qualified at jazz, and don’t want to go to AC, porter is the place to be.

[rudder]

Pretty embarrassing for some of the 737 operators…..

[RoAF-Mig21]

If you are embraer qualified at jazz, and don’t want to go to AC, porter is the place to be.

So how does this work? You get hired as an Embraer F/O or captain, but what about all the guys on the Dash 8 that have been there for a long time? Will they bump you down eventually in seniority, or there are two separate lists?

[8895]

This is the start of a revolution!!! Remember that this is only a 132 seat airplane. Just think about what the conversion would be for a 737 or an A320.

Wouldn’t go that far bud lol

Remember Porter “benchmarks” their salaries by selecting companies and essentially averaging out the salaries to establish their own. Someone feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the companies involved with the E2 benchmarking process are transat, flair, and sunwing. So I’m assuming the salaries reflect having a leg up on sunwing and flair thanks to transat pulling the numbers up from those 2.

If Porter really cared about competing with AC and WJ for the pilot supply in the same way as competing for their share of the industry marketshare then they should probably include AT LEAST WJ in the list of benchmarked companies, but that’s a whole other point to get into lol.

Also remember that the E2 ops literally just started rev flights this month so every captain on property is on year one pay, so I’d only really look at the first half of the scale, it doesn’t cost the company anything to offer year 10 captain pay to zero pilots right now.

On the other hand…. It WOULD cost the company money to pay their Q drivers more, last I checked the last 2 upgrade classes were cancelled due to no candidates, and I doubt increasing year one pay by 6k is going to change that trend lol. Q FO’s hardly got a bump, but hey at least it’s not a pay decrease like they got coming out of the pandemic I guess?

If I was on the WJ MEC I’d be leveraging this as much as possible. It’s that negotiation along with ACPA’s (hopefully soon to be ALPA as well) that have the best chance at gaining us some ground in this industry for once.

[rudder]

Dear Jazz,

A new-hire Porter E2 CA is being paid $20/hr more than an 18 year Jazz E175 CA.

That is going to get people’s attention.

[8895]

If you are embraer qualified at jazz, and don’t want to go to AC, porter is the place to be.

So how does this work? You get hired as an Embraer F/O or captain, but what about all the guys on the Dash 8 that have been there for a long time? Will they bump you down eventually in seniority, or there are two separate lists?

Same list. Q pilots going over to the jet would parachute in on the seniority list

[Aviationanalysis234]

This is the start of a revolution!!! Remember that this is only a 132 seat airplane. Just think about what the conversion would be for a 737 or an A320.

Wouldn’t go that far bud lol

Remember Porter “benchmarks” their salaries by selecting companies and essentially averaging out the salaries to establish their own. Someone feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the companies involved with the E2 benchmarking process are transat, flair, and sunwing. So I’m assuming the salaries reflect having a leg up on sunwing and flair thanks to transat pulling the numbers up from those 2.

If Porter really cared about competing with AC and WJ for the pilot supply in the same way as competing for their share of the industry marketshare then they should probably include AT LEAST WJ in the list of benchmarked companies, but that’s a whole other point to get into lol.

Also remember that the E2 ops literally just started rev flights this month so every captain on property is on year one pay, so I’d only really look at the first half of the scale, it doesn’t cost the company anything to offer year 10 captain pay to zero pilots right now.

On the other hand…. It WOULD cost the company money to pay their Q drivers more, last I checked the last 2 upgrade classes were cancelled due to no candidates, and I doubt increasing year one pay by 6k is going to change that trend lol. Q FO’s hardly got a bump, but hey at least it’s not a pay decrease like they got coming out of the pandemic I guess?

If I was on the WJ MEC I’d be leveraging this as much as possible. It’s that negotiation along with ACPA’s (hopefully soon to be ALPA as well) that have the best chance at gaining us some ground in this industry for once.

You seem to have missed the fact that Porter's scale is now higher than WJ's 737 scale. Including them in the average would actually reduce Porter's new pay scales.

[canadian_aviator_4]

Dear Jazz,

A new-hire Porter E2 CA is being paid $20/hr more than an 18 year Jazz E175 CA.

That is going to get people’s attention.

A pay increase will come…. however everyone who doesn’t have a db pension will be gone by then.

[Inverted2]

Dear Jazz,

A new-hire Porter E2 CA is being paid $20/hr more than an 18 year Jazz E175 CA.

That is going to get people’s attention.

A pay increase will come…. however everyone who doesn’t have a db pension will be gone by then.

If I wasn’t on the db pension I’d be gone there yesterday. Think about it. You go to Porter as a DEC and start off making fairly good money. Stay at Jazz, then go to AC. 4 years of crap, do the upgrade after 4 yrs, and yes make a little more than Porters hourly wage on a narrow body and spend years on reserve or working every single weekend and holiday.

[Aviationanalysis234]

If you are embraer qualified at jazz, and don’t want to go to AC, porter is the place to be.

So how does this work? You get hired as an Embraer F/O or captain, but what about all the guys on the Dash 8 that have been there for a long time? Will they bump you down eventually in seniority, or there are two separate lists?

Same list. Q pilots going over to the jet would parachute in on the seniority list

There is more than enough new pilots joining Porter over next 24 months that all current and new pilots near term will quickly move up in seniority (relatively speaking) and have the ability to build great pairings and quality of life scheduled. Upward mobility will be quick.

[Ash Ketchum]

E2 captain pay is good but I still feel like there is room for improvement on the FO side.

[flyinhigh]

E2 captain pay is good but I still feel like there is room for improvement on the FO side.

At 63K per annum, it’s pretty descent.

I did think the DH8 should have come up though. Folks who were on the fence about transferring over previously will be bailing from the Dash program in a New York minute now, leaving that program severely deprived.

[Autobrake]

Open YUL base.

[rudder]

E2 captain pay is good but I still feel like there is room for improvement on the FO side.

At 63K per annum, it’s pretty descent.

I did think the DH8 should have come up though. Folks who were on the fence about transferring over previously will be bailing from the Dash program in a New York minute now, leaving that program severely deprived.

Wouldn’t FO status pay with an equipment freeze (time limited/no restriction if upgrading) make sense?

[Dry Guy]

Congratulations to Porter for increasing hourly wages! Does years of service carry over from FO to CA?

[schnitzel2k3]

E2 captain pay is good but I still feel like there is room for improvement on the FO side.

Likely be more pressure if AC adjusts theirs. It seems a consistent average amongst Canadian airlines that FOs are 'only' worth between 55-70k. I'd love to see AC FO's, especially for the talent they are still acquiring starting closer to the US mainlines, 91-95k then onto formula.

For now though, well done Porter, 4 months into a brand new AOC, literally 17 days since revenue day zero, and already raising the industry bar.

[rando]

E2 captain pay is good but I still feel like there is room for improvement on the FO side.

At 63K per annum, it’s pretty descent.

I did think the DH8 should have come up though. Folks who were on the fence about transferring over previously will be bailing from the Dash program in a New York minute now, leaving that program severely deprived.

Decent compared to what? Other airlines in Canada?

It’s not decent until every FO makes at least 100k yr.

100 a year today is same as about 80 3 years ago. Our government Ponzi scheme monetary system moves much faster than wages.

[flyingcanuck]

E2 captain pay is good but I still feel like there is room for improvement on the FO side.

Likely be more pressure if AC adjusts theirs. It seems a consistent average amongst Canadian airlines that FOs are 'only' worth between 55-70k. I'd love to see AC FO's, especially for the talent they are still acquiring starting closer to the US mainlines, 91-95k then onto formula.

For now though, well done Porter, 4 months into a brand new AOC, literally 17 days since revenue day zero, and already raising the industry bar.

eh, raising the bar would be upping the Q pay quite a bit. This is because they need more guys on the EMB.

[Ash Ketchum]

I agree that FO pay should be 100K to start. That puts it at roughly 2/3 of first year captain pay which I think is fair given the responsibilities and requirements of the job. AC first year pay should double but I doubt we will see that.

[cdnavater]

I agree that FO pay should be 100K to start. That puts it at roughly 2/3 of first year captain pay which I think is fair given the responsibilities and requirements of the job. AC first year pay should double but I doubt we will see that.

Agreed on both, pay needs to come up commensurate with experience, that being said, if they continue to put 250 hour pilots in the right seat, I don’t see it happening to the degree we would like to see.
Some airlines in the past have an additional salary per 500 hrs PIC, could something like this work, I think so. That being said, I believe the non ATPL pilots should be compensated fairly as well. The net result of paying more for more experience will have and increase for the lower experience 704, 703 ops.