Do you think Flair is a stable career choice?

[Up_Then_Down]

I know stable job and aviation don’t go together but do you see Flair going the distance?

No doubt Flair has been around for a while and from the outside it looks like they know what they are doing.

I am thinking about making a change but I have some reservations.

[ZBBYLW]

No one would be able to tell me you with a straight face that they can 100% guarantee flair will be around for your career.

Not sure what's in your log book, but if you lack PIC time or jet time, the 737 type rating and if you could get 1,000 737 PIC would help you out in the long term. It flair ends up TU, it may open a lot of doors up for you overseas that may not be open to you at the moment.

[sstaurus]

I would just make sure you go in with a backup plan that won't cause you undue stress or financial hardship.

[the_new_guy]

I know stable job and aviation don’t go together but do you see Flair going the distance?

No doubt Flair has been around for a while and from the outside it looks like they know what they are doing.

I am thinking about making a change but I have some reservations.

No one can answer that question for you unfortunately. I would love to tell you that flair will definitively be around in 25 years but I don't know, nor does anyone for that matter.

Most of us that didn't come from overseas when joining flair made a choice. Some still end up going to AC if offered a chance (at least younger FOs), but you would be surprised to see how many of us are actually planning on staying. Confidence in the company is high to say the least. There's always those that say anything not AC or westjet will fail, but no one knows. Westjet had to start somewhere back in the 90s.

You just have to go with what you believe and stick it out.

[tbaylx]

While there are no guarantees in Canadian aviation, I can tell you that if you don't want to fly wide bodies doing oceanic and polar crossing in the middle of the night our goal is to make Flair the employer of choice for pilots.

The goldilocks balance of lifestyle, compensation, and work satisfaction. The 737 has the perfect-sized fuel tanks. It goes far enough that you get good credit and lots of days off and not so far that you have to worry about the back of the clock and time zones. I'd also argue we have the best training department in Canada, so if you want to upgrade on your first 705 jet, this is the place to do it.

We aren't perfect but we're working towards it every day and we try and take care of our pilots.

[Inverted2]

Is it mostly single day pairings at Flair or are there lots of layovers? (For those of us who don’t live close to major airports)

[tbaylx]

Is it mostly single day pairings at Flair or are there lots of layovers? (For those of us who don’t live close to major airports)

Mostly single days out and backs.

[co-joe]

I know stable job and aviation don’t go together but do you see Flair going the distance?

No doubt Flair has been around for a while and from the outside it looks like they know what they are doing.

I am thinking about making a change but I have some reservations.

I believe we can do it. We have proven the ULCC concept makes money and provides cheaper fares in this country, even though people said it would only work in Europe, or only in the US. We are the only airline in Canada following the ULCC concept to the letter, all the others are variations of the core concept. And we are the largest ULCC and in the best position to fill that segment of the market which has a maximum possible size, we have 7 bases and almost 25 aircraft in the air(very soon).

All that is well and good, but what really matters is that we have the right team to make it happen. At every step of our expansion, we have put in place amazing people to build the business. It's humbling, every time I meet another highly experienced high time Captain who has all the experience in the world to go anywhere, and they chose to stay here.

[Apestogetherstrong]

While there are no guarantees in Canadian aviation, I can tell you that if you don't want to fly wide bodies doing oceanic and polar crossing in the middle of the night our goal is to make Flair the employer of choice for pilots.

The goldilocks balance of lifestyle, compensation, and work satisfaction. The 737 has the perfect-sized fuel tanks. It goes far enough that you get good credit and lots of days off and not so far that you have to worry about the back of the clock and time zones. I'd also argue we have the best training department in Canada, so if you want to upgrade on your first 705 jet, this is the place to do it.

We aren't perfect but we're working towards it every day and we try and take care of our pilots.

I’d say Jazz takes care of their pilots by providing them hot inflight meals. They have a proper secure parking spot in Toronto- Viscount parking lot whereas I have heard that Flair pilots have to park near Element hotel in the open and walk. that is a long walk- takes 15 minutes out in the open. Its dangerous and if its raininf you’refully soaked. If its hot ans sunny, by the time you reach the airport you are drenched in sweat. Flair pilots dont have any layovers at all. So you dont really get a lot of pwr diems. Now perdiems is not salary but a Jazz pilot working 18 days would easily get 1500 in perdiems.

[the_new_guy]

While there are no guarantees in Canadian aviation, I can tell you that if you don't want to fly wide bodies doing oceanic and polar crossing in the middle of the night our goal is to make Flair the employer of choice for pilots.

The goldilocks balance of lifestyle, compensation, and work satisfaction. The 737 has the perfect-sized fuel tanks. It goes far enough that you get good credit and lots of days off and not so far that you have to worry about the back of the clock and time zones. I'd also argue we have the best training department in Canada, so if you want to upgrade on your first 705 jet, this is the place to do it.

We aren't perfect but we're working towards it every day and we try and take care of our pilots.

I’d say Jazz takes care of their pilots by providing them hot inflight meals. They have a proper secure parking spot in Toronto- Viscount parking lot whereas I have heard that Flair pilots have to park near Element hotel in the open and walk. that is a long walk- takes 15 minutes out in the open. Its dangerous and if its raininf you’refully soaked. If its hot ans sunny, by the time you reach the airport you are drenched in sweat. Flair pilots dont have any layovers at all. So you dont really get a lot of pwr diems. Now perdiems is not salary but a Jazz pilot working 18 days would easily get 1500 in perdiems.

I would say a better parking would be nice, but honestly if that's a deal breaker for someone, too bad for them. Parking situation can always change, so can the remainder of the "satellite" working conditions. And sure, we don't get meals in flight. FOs do get paid though. Not sure comparing flair to jazz is a good point to make.

Perdiems aren't bad if you consider you're home, not always eating out and you bring your lunch. It all depends what you want and no one can tell you what that is.

[thepoors]

I'd also argue we have the best training department in Canada, so if you want to upgrade on your first 705 jet, this is the place to do it.

That's a big claim. What are you basing it on?

[JHR]

Are pilots still having trouble getting their overtime cheques?
I knew a pilot there who was owed thousands. Not sure if he ever got it before he left for another job.

[the_new_guy]

Are pilots still having trouble getting their overtime cheques?
I knew a pilot there who was owed thousands. Not sure if he ever got it before he left for another job.

There's been hiccups for sure in the past. There's still a few but it's not the rule, more the exception nowadays. I had no problems getting paid whatever I was due (overtime, vacations, perdiems, etc) in the past 7 months. Last spring/summer was a little more complex tbh since there was lots of schedule changes associated with overtime and special rates associated with sched change as per contract. That being said, it had more to do with new personal within crew scheduling not properly making the changes to your roster, or flagging it as required. That's been taken care of.

[tbaylx]

While there are no guarantees in Canadian aviation, I can tell you that if you don't want to fly wide bodies doing oceanic and polar crossing in the middle of the night our goal is to make Flair the employer of choice for pilots.

The goldilocks balance of lifestyle, compensation, and work satisfaction. The 737 has the perfect-sized fuel tanks. It goes far enough that you get good credit and lots of days off and not so far that you have to worry about the back of the clock and time zones. I'd also argue we have the best training department in Canada, so if you want to upgrade on your first 705 jet, this is the place to do it.

We aren't perfect but we're working towards it every day and we try and take care of our pilots.

I’d say Jazz takes care of their pilots by providing them hot inflight meals. They have a proper secure parking spot in Toronto- Viscount parking lot whereas I have heard that Flair pilots have to park near Element hotel in the open and walk. that is a long walk- takes 15 minutes out in the open. Its dangerous and if its raininf you’refully soaked. If its hot ans sunny, by the time you reach the airport you are drenched in sweat. Flair pilots dont have any layovers at all. So you dont really get a lot of pwr diems. Now perdiems is not salary but a Jazz pilot working 18 days would easily get 1500 in perdiems.

Parking will sort itself out and we'll eventually move over to Viscount once we have enough crew we exceed the current capacity in YYZ. While I'm sure that seems like a better deal it also means an extra $700 a year in tax for the average pilot. Not doing overnights is a selling point for most piltos who want to be home every night and not on the road.

I'm sure Jazz pilots carefully count their per diems given their contractual issues, but since we pay a TAFB per diem and our crew don't have to eat out since we don't layover, they keep everything they make so likely they end up better off.

[FL030]

our goal is to make Flair the employer of choice for pilots.

You can do that right now. Pilots want MONEY.

[fish4life]

The goldilocks balance of lifestyle, compensation, and work satisfaction. The 737 has the perfect-sized fuel tanks. It goes far enough that you get good credit and lots of days off and not so far that you have to worry about the back of the clock and time zones.

Does that mean the red eye turns where you start in the early evening fly out west then red eye back are gone?

[the_new_guy]

The goldilocks balance of lifestyle, compensation, and work satisfaction. The 737 has the perfect-sized fuel tanks. It goes far enough that you get good credit and lots of days off and not so far that you have to worry about the back of the clock and time zones.

Does that mean the red eye turns where you start in the early evening fly out west then red eye back are gone?

Picking the one bad flight on the schedule to make a point?

There's always low credits flying/shity flying everywhere and that's gonna go to the lower seniority guys. AC has short layovers in yow out of yyz since jazz can't make their flying happen. Westjet has pairings starting and ending in DHs, at night or early in the morning.

Flair has that one really sucky pairing, the balance isn't bad at all.

Plus for anyone who's interested in multi day pairings, there's a few of them now on schedule. Junior guys tend to get them if they want them since senior ones like the high credit turns.

Let's be real, shit flights on junior guys' rosters are a thing.

[Inverted2]

Is it mostly single day pairings at Flair or are there lots of layovers? (For those of us who don’t live close to major airports)

Mostly single days out and backs.

Ok thanks for the info. Appreciated. Driving into the big smoke once a week is enough for me. Daily? Nah

[Jumbo744]

While there are no guarantees in Canadian aviation, I can tell you that if you don't want to fly wide bodies doing oceanic and polar crossing in the middle of the night our goal is to make Flair the employer of choice for pilots.

The goldilocks balance of lifestyle, compensation, and work satisfaction. The 737 has the perfect-sized fuel tanks. It goes far enough that you get good credit and lots of days off and not so far that you have to worry about the back of the clock and time zones. I'd also argue we have the best training department in Canada, so if you want to upgrade on your first 705 jet, this is the place to do it.

We aren't perfect but we're working towards it every day and we try and take care of our pilots.

I’d say Jazz takes care of their pilots by providing them hot inflight meals. They have a proper secure parking spot in Toronto- Viscount parking lot whereas I have heard that Flair pilots have to park near Element hotel in the open and walk. that is a long walk- takes 15 minutes out in the open. Its dangerous and if its raininf you’refully soaked. If its hot ans sunny, by the time you reach the airport you are drenched in sweat. Flair pilots dont have any layovers at all. So you dont really get a lot of pwr diems. Now perdiems is not salary but a Jazz pilot working 18 days would easily get 1500 in perdiems.

Jazz?? Are you out of your mind you've never seen what a paycheck at jazz looks like have you 18 days a month? You call that a good job

[Adam Oke]

The goldilocks balance of lifestyle, compensation, and work satisfaction. The 737 has the perfect-sized fuel tanks. It goes far enough that you get good credit and lots of days off and not so far that you have to worry about the back of the clock and time zones.

Does that mean the red eye turns where you start in the early evening fly out west then red eye back are gone?

Actually, yes. We no longer land back at 0500 and land at 0155 for the YKF red eye. Far more palatable.

----

In my interview, I was informed the average credit is about 6.25 hrs. I would say that stands to be roughly true. I'm bidding 75% seniority and work between 12-14 days depending on Vacation/Sim. I seem to just make the cut to be a block holder. Looks like senior guys are running 10-12 days worked and likely even less if you are based where there is a bit more efficiency. A reserve block will run you 18 days worked.

I'm home for dinner 95% of the time for early starts and have a lazy sleep in for the evening flights. Back to back turns, even with my 1:20 commute, are not at all exhausting either. Again, I'm low on the list.

Flair truly does have a great work/life balance if you don't mind driving in to work a bit more. If you value being at home or having dinner with the family and reading your kids night time stories vs a video call from your hotel room.... this is your place.