Flair Airlines - Planes seized

[CpnCrunch]

More info here, and accusations of "skulduggery":

https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo ... ights.html

Sounds like an episode of airplane repo. I miss that show, even though it was a little corny and contrived.

[rookiepilot]

More info here, and accusations of "skulduggery":

https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo ... ights.html

Sounds like an episode of airplane repo. I miss that show, even though it was a little corny and contrived.

It was just very underhanded and sort of middle-of-the-night skulduggery.”

Jones was not confident that Flair will get the planes back. “If there’s one thing I’ve learned here, it is don’t get between a hedge fund and a dollar. They’re very mercenary in the way that they have approached this,” he said.

This guy is hilarious.



Awesome show, BTW.

[ads-b]

They missed payments for months. Lessor recouped most of their money. Obviously shopped the planes around to airlines that pay their bills. Grabbed their planes before tied up in a bankruptcy.

Time for a new spin.

[JasonE]

When I flew YQT to YYZ in January I chose not to use Flair because I couldn't risk being stuck there for a week! Flew home West Jet for double the price. Not sure the average consumer knows enough about airlines to make that choice.

[ThinMargins]

I have had a lot of conversations with lessors over the past few days.

The news, I am afraid, is very bad. They all think Jones is a pathological liar and want to pull their aircraft out. Jones lying about Airborne seizing aircraft just over a “five day delay” was the final straw because they all talk to each other and know that no one was getting paid since late last year. One lessor said their firm was shocked when Jones stood in front of a microphone and announced route expansions when he had been defaulting on lease payments for almost six months.

They see Flair’s financials every month and know that Flair does not make enough to pay its leases. That is why they were shopping Flair’s aircraft to other carriers.

They were surprised that 777 showed up and started making payments two weeks ago.

Why?

Because that is illegal. The CTA’s June decision last year ordered Flair to contract with lessors without 777’s guarantees or financial support to limit foreign control. These lessors know that the only way they can get paid requires a violation of the law. They do not want any part in that and are looking to find a way to terminate.

And then yesterday, Jones made a mistake. He publicly admitted what was only known to the lessors, that 777 was the party making payments. Now the CTA is starting an investigation. Read the Globe story very carefully. The CTA normally does not respond but has issued a public statement that it is “looking into information made public”. This is going to unravel quickly.

Mr. Jones has said Flair’s U.S. investor 777 Partners paid the amounts owing, adding it to the debt Flair owes.

Miami-based 777 Partners did not respond to e-mailed questions.

The Canadian Transportation Agency in 2022 began an investigation of Flair because 777 Partners appeared to be controlling the company, in violation of Canadian rules. The CTA would eventually declare Flair a Canadian company after the airline agreed to reduce its dependence on 777 Partners for financing and aircraft leases, and add more Canadians to the board of directors.

CTA spokesman Vincent Turgeon said the regulator monitors Flair for anything that might change its Canadian status. This includes its financing “and looking into the information made public over the last few days about Flair’s fleet,” Mr. Turgeon said in an e-mail.

[averageatbest]

When I flew QYT to YYZ in January I chose not to use Flair because I couldn't risk being stuck there for a week! Flew home West Jet for double the price. Not sure the average consumer knows enough about airlines to make that choice.

The fact that you think WJ doesn't cancel a shit tonne of flights as a big middle finger to the east, you're as incorrect as your misspelling of YQT.

[VmcAllTheWayDown]

When I flew QYT to YYZ in January I chose not to use Flair because I couldn't risk being stuck there for a week! Flew home West Jet for double the price. Not sure the average consumer knows enough about airlines to make that choice.

The fact that you think WJ doesn't cancel a shit tonne of flights as a big middle finger to the east, you're as incorrect as your misspelling of YQT.

Got to agree here. I’ve flown flair multiple times, never had an issue. Maybe I got off lucky, hopefully they’re around long enough to try my luck again.

On Sunday Flair had 3 out of 3 depart and arrivals at ykf. WJ cancelled their Ykf-yyc-ykf run. AC/Jazz has numerous flights in and out of yyz cancelled.

[VmcAllTheWayDown]

I have had a lot of conversations with lessors over the past few days.

The news, I am afraid, is very bad. They all think Jones is a pathological liar and want to pull their aircraft out. Jones lying about Airborne seizing aircraft just over a “five day delay” was the final straw because they all talk to each other and know that no one was getting paid since late last year. One lessor said their firm was shocked when Jones stood in front of a microphone and announced route expansions when he had been defaulting on lease payments for almost six months.

They see Flair’s financials every month and know that Flair does not make enough to pay its leases. That is why they were shopping Flair’s aircraft to other carriers.

They were surprised that 777 showed up and started making payments two weeks ago.

Why?

Because that is illegal. The CTA’s June decision last year ordered Flair to contract with lessors without 777’s guarantees or financial support to limit foreign control. These lessors know that the only way they can get paid requires a violation of the law. They do not want any part in that and are looking to find a way to terminate.

And then yesterday, Jones made a mistake. He publicly admitted what was only known to the lessors, that 777 was the party making payments. Now the CTA is starting an investigation. Read the Globe story very carefully. The CTA normally does not respond but has issued a public statement that it is “looking into information made public”. This is going to unravel quickly.

Mr. Jones has said Flair’s U.S. investor 777 Partners paid the amounts owing, adding it to the debt Flair owes.

Miami-based 777 Partners did not respond to e-mailed questions.

The Canadian Transportation Agency in 2022 began an investigation of Flair because 777 Partners appeared to be controlling the company, in violation of Canadian rules. The CTA would eventually declare Flair a Canadian company after the airline agreed to reduce its dependence on 777 Partners for financing and aircraft leases, and add more Canadians to the board of directors.

CTA spokesman Vincent Turgeon said the regulator monitors Flair for anything that might change its Canadian status. This includes its financing “and looking into the information made public over the last few days about Flair’s fleet,” Mr. Turgeon said in an e-mail.

So is it you that the media keeps quoting but can’t name?

[JasonE]

The fact that you think WJ doesn't cancel a shit tonne of flights as a big middle finger to the east, you're as incorrect as your misspelling of YQT.

Fingers got ahead of me... Everyone cancels flights. I looked at the flight schedule for the next few days, and Westjet had the next best option that worked for me the following day if things went wrong. Flair was 4-5 days later.

[Floop]

I have had a lot of conversations with lessors over the past few days.

Who are you? How do you have so many connections with lessors? Why should anyone believe you?

[averageatbest]

Fingers got ahead of me... Everyone cancels flights. I looked at the flight schedule for the next few days, and Westjet had the next best option that worked for me the following day if things went wrong. Flair was 4-5 days later.

Don't mind me... I'm just one of the losers who got shafted by the anti-growth growth strategy.

[Sharklasers]

I have had a lot of conversations with lessors over the past few days.

Who are you? How do you have so many connections with lessors? Why should anyone believe you?

I don’t know who he is but he was dead to rights correct a couple weeks ago about Flair defaulting on leases and even had the Fin numbers correct.

Certainly doesn’t mean that he is 100% correct and I think it’s super ballsy to post this stuff on avcanada but to dismiss him as a liar now seems foolish.


From another group tonight:

Interesting.

At Ottawa airport right now and its almost 2.5 hrs since landing. Ottawa Airport seems to be refusing to unload the plane as all of us passengers are being told that Flair is talking with the Airport or something along those lines. I'm now wondering if Flair owes money or something to the Airport.....

(ADDENDUM: Just cancelled my return flight with Flair. Booked a flight with Porter to get home juuuust in case)

Update:

Ok, it was about FOUR hours when the flight was FINALLY unloaded. No explanation was given to us, especially since flights from other airlines over that time were getting their bags. Flair was the only one (F8 326 from Calgary to Ottawa for the person who asked which flight this was). The only thing one guy who claimed to rep the airport said was that "Flair was talking to the airport" whatever that meant. But I can't help but feel that this is definitely a money issue if whatever company or the airport or whoever unloads planes seems to be doing every other plane EXCEPT this one FLair flight. SInce Ottawa only gets 1 flight every other day, and I saw at least 6 other flights of people get their bags, I can't figure out any other reason why this happened. Honestly, why did Flair even NEED to talk to the airport???

[rookiepilot]

My guess is Flair is done.

The budding banking crisis all but ensures weaker co’s will be impaired

[rookiepilot]

Cooked.

Hope you guys get paid.

[fish4life]

It’s crazy when a random forum poster has more credibility than the CEO but so far thin margins has been fairly accurate weeks before things happened.

[RoAF-Mig21]

Not sure if this link was shared:

"The New York-based company that seized four leased aircraft from Flair Airlines last weekend says the move was a "last resort" following months of missed payments, denying accusations it was working with another carrier to push the low-cost airline out of business."

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/travel/news/f ... b581&ei=12

[FlyGiep]

Random forum poster that only joined 21 Feb this year, yes lets beleive all he says !

[fish4life]

Random forum poster that only joined 21 Feb this year, yes lets beleive all he says !

Normally your sarcasm would be valid but thin margins asked about Flair defaulting payments on one of the 4 tails that were seized with the correct registration 3 weeks ago.
Check their previous posts from February

[YVRorbust]

Random forum poster that only joined 21 Feb this year, yes lets beleive all he says !

Pot calling the kettle black? You have 2 posts and joined 2 months ago. How does being a random poster disqualify his information?

I for one, think what ThinMargins is sharing has merit and it's appreciated.

[Floop]

Random forum poster that only joined 21 Feb this year, yes lets beleive all he says !

Normally your sarcasm would be valid but thin margins asked about Flair defaulting payments on one of the 4 tails that were seized with the correct registration 3 weeks ago.
Check their previous posts from February

He asked about FLKJ, which is still flying. He was close but not correct.