PASCO’s Constant Job Ads

[Daigo]

Thanks for posting the above information Dronepiper. This is a great thread and very informative for guys and gals pursuing flying jobs at 703 operators.

PS. If anyone has current salary/schedule info for Thunder Airlines could you please share or send me a private message.
Thanks.

They start off at 35k. I'm not gonna beat a dead horse, but that right there is a perfect example of what im talking about

[aviatorcariboo]

Here

So you dug around for payscales much higher than average and still couldn't show us that any of them are "over $65000". The closest you came was missinipi (possibly the highest paying 703 the country) where under certain conditions (flying medevac) you can reach the peak canadian 703 FO of 65000 but even still its not "over" and it's certainly doesn't validate your statement of "703 FO positions start at over $65000"

I don't mean to be a dick by pointing out the misinformation. It just came off as really out of touch as the overwhelming vast majority of 703 and even 705 FO's don't start anywhere that. Your post glamorized something which doesnt exist when in reality most 703's are still at a very sad state

It's not misinformation. As shown above, various 703 operators are hiring 1000 hour FOs in the $60,000 to $70,000 range. Such operators don't post often on the jobs forum, as they already have pilots lined up and don't need to post. All pilots should try to convince their management to pay higher rates to retain experienced crew and maintain a safe company that doesn't go out of business due to an accident.

This post never mentioned that all 703 operators are paying this high, many pay below minimum wage and less than $30,000.

At least some operators have realized its better to pay $60,000 to $80,000 base pay in order to retain their experienced FO so they can transition to captain with experience rather than leave for a regional. Add in mileage pay and retaining bonuses, pay can be even higher for FOs at companies which value their experience and want them to be captains instead of move on.

These higher paying 703 chief pilots and other managers value their jobs, as they realize that company experienced pilots are less likely to crash.
A crash could cause the 703 to lose their contracts and revenue and have TC looking at a shutdown, sending the company out of business.

Many other 703 and 705 operators don't care about the FOs and deny them higher pay rates. These companies, like encore, jazz, perimeter, wasaya will lose their on type experienced captains & FOs to other carriers which pay higher. This results in lacking pilots who know the aircraft systems, airports & routes well enough to maintain previous levels of safety.
These low paying managers and chief pilots not standing up for higher pay are likely to lose their jobs when the next accident happens, most of them don't understand their jobs are at risk.

Look at most companies which have had an accident, the management and chief pilots quickly lose their jobs. If the accident is serious, the company is out of business.

Its in the interest of managers and chief pilots to pay their captains and FOs well to retain them. Why risk losing a chief pilot position and salary over a few extra dollars each hour for the pilots.

Who hurt you Canadair? Why are you so scared of pilots crashing airplanes?

Although serious if it happens, I just don't think that's the main issue here

[CanadaAir]

Low time first officers flying with captains with little experience on type or PIC, search the accident records.

Several companies with low pay are having their experienced captains and fos leave.
Set up for accidents.

Companies like PASCO, Perimeter, Rise Air, Jazz, Encore and others are building crews which lack critical experience.
Captains who have only flown the aircraft for a year or two, and junior fo.

Rather than paying wages to retain, the management let their experienced pilots walk away.

While a few operators, management realize to keep operating safely and not risk an accident the easiest way is to set up the schedule and pay to keep experienced pilots at the company.

Accident records show the importance of this.

[‘Bob’]

703s are safer now then they were 20 years ago when experience levels were higher than they are at regional 705s.

There are other factors at play. Most airlines are investing in those rather than more experience. Because even at $65k/$120k… they aren’t going to do a Manitoba medevac rotation forever unless they are some kind of machinists.

[goldeneagle]

20 years ago, Pasco was a place where a young pilot would get his/her first two crew IFR job. Most were hired as the company staffed up in the spring preparing for the busy summer season servicing fishing camps and lodges, both on the coast and in the interior. As fall rolled around, the staffing levels would be reduced down to just what was required to manage the sked work. Many folks used the Pasco opportunity to pad the logbook well enough that some of the larger operations would look at them.

From my vantage point, nothing has changed since then. It's spring, Pasco is staffing up for the busy season, and the pilot count will shrink again by the end of October. The only real difference these days, there is more sked work, and they are bigger, so the winter staff numbers are bigger than they were back then, as are the required summer numbers.

Most folks that go to Pasco in the spring are not going there because of the money, they are going to get a resume in shape for the next step up in the food chain.

[bcflyer]

Here

Where did you get those pay scales? The info I am finding doesn’t match what you posted.

[Big Pistons Forever]

For the first time in my 40 + years in the industry there really is a pilot shortage and the third tier operators are having a very hard time of it. It doesn’t matter how much you pay you can’t compete with SJS.

In the old days when all the jet operators wanted a couple of thousand hours before they would look at you, operators like Pasco could count on a least a couple of year’s service from a new hire, now the minimums they are looking for will get you a Dash 8 or even jet job. Anyone they hire already has one foot out the door and that is why they are always advertising for pilots.

Pasco is the jet 705 farm team. They supply the pilots to the mainline jet operator, pay the cost to get them up to speed and get nothing in return.

[‘Bob’]

And how many planes has PASCO crashed lately? Operating into some of the most challenging terrain and weather in the country with if not antiquated… at least very old aircraft.

[cdnavater]

20 years ago, Pasco was a place where a young pilot would get his/her first two crew IFR job. Most were hired as the company staffed up in the spring preparing for the busy summer season servicing fishing camps and lodges, both on the coast and in the interior. As fall rolled around, the staffing levels would be reduced down to just what was required to manage the sked work. Many folks used the Pasco opportunity to pad the logbook well enough that some of the larger operations would look at them.

From my vantage point, nothing has changed since then. It's spring, Pasco is staffing up for the busy season, and the pilot count will shrink again by the end of October. The only real difference these days, there is more sked work, and they are bigger, so the winter staff numbers are bigger than they were back then, as are the required summer numbers.

Most folks that go to Pasco in the spring are not going there because of the money, they are going to get a resume in shape for the next step up in the food chain.

Oh ok, so Jazz pilots are bad for lowering the bar but PASCO pilots, nothing to see here folks, just polishing up the old resume!
Nice to know you have a bias!

[cdnavater]

And how many planes has PASCO crashed lately? Operating into some of the most challenging terrain and weather in the country with if not antiquated… at least very old aircraft.

Talk to a recent resigned pilot from there, they will tell you it’s only a matter of time!

[CanadaAir]

Let’s hope for no accidents.

Yet be realistic.

In past decades, the average regional crew might have a FO with 3 years on type at the same company, and a captain with 6 years or more on type at the same company. For a combined 9 years on type at the same company. This added safety.

In the past, junior FO would be match to experienced training captains with 10 years or more on type at the company.

Now junior FO with no type or company experience are being matched to captains with less than 4 years on type, or even worse junior Fo with recently upgraded captains of only 2 years on type.

There’s a massive lack of experienced time on type today compared to the past, this was the experience which many crew relied on to safely prevent several major accidents from occurring. Some incredible regional and commuter crews have been recognized for their successful landings after in flight events.

Add in old aircraft like Saab or 1900 with outdated avionics and autopilots, old or no GPS and half-working systems, mountain and remote flying without ATC.

Add long duty days and fatigue due to the current lack of crews.

Something small going wrong with a system could have a bad ending.

Instead of risking an accident, the management could do a small increase in fares to pay higher rates to retain their experienced pilots and encourage FOs to stay and upgrade. In past there was $120,000 and $140,000 salaries for experienced 19 seat captains. It could easily be done.

[BCBlue]

So much hate from so many people that clearly have no insight to the current reality at Pasco.

“Instead of risking an accident, the management could do a small increase in fares to pay higher rates to retain their experienced pilots and encourage FOs to stay and upgrade. In past there was $120,000 and $140,000 salaries for experienced 19 seat captains. It could easily be done.”

From someone who actually works there, I clear the figures quoted above, as do most others with experience here. Could I earn more flying medevac in Manitoba? Apparently I could, but I don’t care because you couldn’t pay me enough to work and live there. Each to their own. It’s just not my thing, and that goes for a lot of others.
The idea that paying more enhances safety is seriously flawed. All areas of the industry are dealing with staffing shortages and experience level issues. Pasco mitigates by training in level C or D sims to roughly twice the minimum mandated training hours and by some fairly strict SOP adherence, which I suspect isn’t always the case with some Northern 703 carriers that this thread compares, although no criticism real or implied of any of the operators quoted here, as I have no insight into their specific operations.
Do SOPs and training make a good pilot out of a bad pilot. No, but it certainly mitigates the risks. Does paying a pilot $20k more make him a better pilot? Absolutely not.
Why are Pasco always advertising? A combination of attrition, which all operators are dealing with, the fact that we are bigger than most similar operators and consequently have more positions to keep filled, and operational expansion plans both internally to Pasco and in conjunction with WestJet Link operational needs.
Make of that what you will, but treat comments from people who know someone who spoke to someone who left there once, with the contempt they deserve.

[Canadaflyer46]

Let’s hope for no accidents.

Yet be realistic.

In past decades, the average regional crew might have a FO with 3 years on type at the same company, and a captain with 6 years or more on type at the same company. For a combined 9 years on type at the same company. This added safety.

In the past, junior FO would be match to experienced training captains with 10 years or more on type at the company.

Now junior FO with no type or company experience are being matched to captains with less than 4 years on type, or even worse junior Fo with recently upgraded captains of only 2 years on type.

There’s a massive lack of experienced time on type today compared to the past, this was the experience which many crew relied on to safely prevent several major accidents from occurring. Some incredible regional and commuter crews have been recognized for their successful landings after in flight events.

Add in old aircraft like Saab or 1900 with outdated avionics and autopilots, old or no GPS and half-working systems, mountain and remote flying without ATC.

Add long duty days and fatigue due to the current lack of crews.

Something small going wrong with a system could have a bad ending.

Instead of risking an accident, the management could do a small increase in fares to pay higher rates to retain their experienced pilots and encourage FOs to stay and upgrade. In past there was $120,000 and $140,000 salaries for experienced 19 seat captains. It could easily be done.

I couldn’t agree more. Unfortunately I think it is only a matter of time if we continue on the current ‘revolving door’ trajectory. Encore for instance only requires 500 on type to upgrade. A few years ago it was more than double that for someone with 2000 hours. I hear Jazz is having the same issues finding captains. The constant lowering of experience levels to meet the demand is a dangerous road to continue down.
As can be seen in the US, experience goes a long way towards safety. They’ve had the safest ten years in aviation history since the 1500 rule came into place. Unfortunately there’s only one way we will get that rule here. It certainly won’t come proactively from our barely-functional regulatory body. Surprisingly the aircraft insurance companies also don’t seem to have a problem with people in the left seat of a regional airliner with such little experience.

[digits_]

And how many planes has PASCO crashed lately? Operating into some of the most challenging terrain and weather in the country with if not antiquated… at least very old aircraft.

Talk to a recent resigned pilot from there, they will tell you it’s only a matter of time!

People have been saying that for the past 10 years (and likely longer). They've been wrong soo far.

I think it's only natural pilots feel a bit overwhelmed in a new position. Resulting in thoughts such as "wow, I had X hours when I started this job and it was quite a challenge. I can't imagine anyone would be successful or safe with only Y hours of experience!"

[propfeather]

From someone who actually works there, I clear the figures quoted above, as do most others with experience here.

So the scale doesn't top out around 100k anymore? What does the top of scale look like now? And how long to get there?

[BCBlue]

The scales don’t top out at 90-100 and they don’t truly reflect earnings potential in any case.
Training increments add significantly to the scale, as do overtime payments, without working excessive days/hours. It differs across types and across bases, but I typically work 16 days a month and exceed the 80 credit guarantee.
Keep in mind that we are talking about experienced employees here, as that is the direction this thread took. New hires are not going to see that straight out the gate, but the opportunities are there for those that have a mind to stay here for lifestyle, and there are quite a few of us. Let’s just say I’ve been here significantly less than 10 years.
Is it perfect, no, but nowhere is, and yes, many of our pilots have aspirations to fly big jets and are leaving while opportunities are there, but it’s a pretty good gig for some, and a far cry from the low pay sweat shop that some on this thread are painting.

[CanadaAir]

The scales don’t top out at 90-100 and they don’t truly reflect earnings potential in any case.
Training increments add significantly to the scale, as do overtime payments, without working excessive days/hours. It differs across types and across bases, but I typically work 16 days a month and exceed the 80 credit guarantee.
Keep in mind that we are talking about experienced employees here, as that is the direction this thread took. New hires are not going to see that straight out the gate, but the opportunities are there for those that have a mind to stay here for lifestyle, and there are quite a few of us. Let’s just say I’ve been here significantly less than 10 years.
Is it perfect, no, but nowhere is, and yes, many of our pilots have aspirations to fly big jets and are leaving while opportunities are there, but it’s a pretty good gig for some, and a far cry from the low pay sweat shop that some on this thread are painting.

Pasco is advertising captain rates of $83,000 to start and topping out at $100,000.
This is less than other companies paid a decade ago.
Consider the cost of living in Vancouver.

[CanadaAir]

From someone who actually works there, I clear the figures quoted above, as do most others with experience here.

So the scale doesn't top out around 100k anymore? What does the top of scale look like now? And how long to get there?

Why doesn't the company advertise the actual pay scale?

[scdriver]

Is there still a commuting policy at pasco? I know I’ve heard about it before, but their website says they do not have one. That being said, it’s phrased like it might be a typo… if there is one, does it include places serviced by the westjet link side of things?

[BCBlue]

The scales don’t top out at 90-100 and they don’t truly reflect earnings potential in any case.
Training increments add significantly to the scale, as do overtime payments, without working excessive days/hours. It differs across types and across bases, but I typically work 16 days a month and exceed the 80 credit guarantee.
Keep in mind that we are talking about experienced employees here, as that is the direction this thread took. New hires are not going to see that straight out the gate, but the opportunities are there for those that have a mind to stay here for lifestyle, and there are quite a few of us. Let’s just say I’ve been here significantly less than 10 years.
Is it perfect, no, but nowhere is, and yes, many of our pilots have aspirations to fly big jets and are leaving while opportunities are there, but it’s a pretty good gig for some, and a far cry from the low pay sweat shop that some on this thread are painting.

Pasco is advertising captain rates of $83,000 to start and topping out at $100,000.
This is less than other companies paid a decade ago.
Consider the cost of living in Vancouver.

Well, you are free to go to any of those other companies( if they are still around), and if you don’t like the cost of living, you are free to go live in Northern Saskatchewan or Manitoba. Your life, your choice. It’s not my place to promote the company. All I’m doing is presenting a real view in the face of keyboard warriors that are merely s*#t disturbing and have no interest in working here anyway.