The CEO gets legacy rates at least!

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ameliapilote
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The CEO gets legacy rates at least!

Post by ameliapilote »

Interesting how Air Canada's CEO puts himself at the top of North American carriers with a $12.4 million compensation.

Right up there with Ed Bastion's compensation of $12.4 million

Ed Bastian Delta $12.4 million
Scott Kirby United $9.85 million
Doug Parker American $7.24 million
Gary Kelly Southwest $5.8 million
Ted Christie Spirit $3.87 milion
Barry Biffle Frontier $3.6 million
Robin Hayes JetBlue $3.45 million
Ben Minicucci Alaska $3.21 million
Peter Ingram Hawaiian $3.09 million

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busines ... -ceos-pay/
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Crewbunk
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Re: The CEO gets legacy rates at least!

Post by Crewbunk »

That can only help contract negotiations when managers claim the US / Canada comparison is irrelevant.
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flyingfool
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Re: The CEO gets legacy rates at least!

Post by flyingfool »

Crewbunk wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 3:20 pm That can only help contract negotiations when managers claim the US / Canada comparison is irrelevant.
They don't even hide it

The executives have it in their compensation package they do NOT compare themselves to WestJet. In fact they dropped them completely for the 2022 comparisons

They compare themselves to United, Delta, American, Alaska

The pilots need to do the same
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kilocharliemike
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Re: The CEO gets legacy rates at least!

Post by kilocharliemike »

is it 12.4 CAD? that's pocket change for them US dogs...
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averageatbest
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Re: The CEO gets legacy rates at least!

Post by averageatbest »

kilocharliemike wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 4:15 pm is it 12.4 CAD? that's pocket change for them US dogs...
That's still USD$9.2 million.
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DanWEC
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Re: The CEO gets legacy rates at least!

Post by DanWEC »

Utterly revolting. How anyone can remotely defend the existing union only has a vested interest in their position.

Don't forget the bonuses the C-Suite handed themselves immediately after the gov't loan, which they were promptly forced to reverse. That's the level of entitlement and oblivion driving the inner workings of who is telling you what your salaries should be.
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rando
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Re: The CEO gets legacy rates at least!

Post by rando »

I have to say he earned it if he can manage a company that pays pilots less than half what the competition pays their crews.

Excellent shareholder value.
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RochVoisine
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Re: The CEO gets legacy rates at least!

Post by RochVoisine »

rando wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 5:57 pm I have to say he earned it if he can manage a company that pays pilots less than half what the competition pays their crews.

Excellent shareholder value.
Indeed

Except when you have industry worst reserve/fatigue rules and come within 14 feet of wiping out 5 other airplanes

"...the runway confusion that almost happened "probably came close to the greatest aviation disaster in history"[2][3][4][5] as five airplanes and potentially over 1,000 passengers were at imminent risk"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Canada_Flight_759

That's bad value
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Bingo Fuel
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Re: The CEO gets legacy rates at least!

Post by Bingo Fuel »

Late stage Capitalism at work. Looking more like Feudalism every day.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-feudalism
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rando
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Re: The CEO gets legacy rates at least!

Post by rando »

Bingo Fuel wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 12:52 am Late stage Capitalism at work. Looking more like Feudalism every day.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-feudalism
Did we vote for late stage capitalism or is that inevitable?

Doesn't look like the US has the same problems we have with pay. Lots of mobility on the economic ladder. While in Canada it won't matter how hard you work you will be a tax paying slave. If you are starting out at 18 today becoming a pilot in Canada vs the US, look at how vastly different the projections are for ability to own a home, retirement etc. "Late stage capitalism" is the way people say capitalism doesn't work and we need socialism. What does late stage socialism look like? There's no such thing as late stage capitalism, just government and policy that lost track of how things should work and what good policy looks like.
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Bingo Fuel
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Re: The CEO gets legacy rates at least!

Post by Bingo Fuel »

The problem with talking about Socialism is that there are too many definitions of the term. Are we taking about democratic socialism like Bernie Sanders? Or are we taking about Communism, with the workers seizing the means of production?

I'll address the problem of defining socialism first. What do most Canadians think Socialism is? Rando, you're a Libertarian, so I'll use a recent study from the Libertarian Fraser Institute.

What is socialism?

Image

Who supports socialism?

Image

Full study here:

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/d ... olling.pdf

So now that we've defined Socialism as government social spending, let's get to your point on figuring out what I think "Late Stage Socialism" is. I can think of two possibilities:

1) As jobs become increasingly influenced by generative AI, Universal Basic Income becomes required to fund the shift of society to new labour models.

2) The failure of the social safety net in capitalist countries. Too small of a taxpayer base to support the dependents on the system, requiring a shift in the retirement age (France), or bolstering the working class through immigration (Canada) in order to delay the collapse.

But here is what I think you really mean, Rando: I think you're using the Reddit definition of Late Stage Socialism. So if we were to pull up https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageSocialism, we see that it's mostly memes about r/latestagecapitalism, or complaints about Russia, Venezuela, North Korea or China. As shown above, that definition of socialism is not shared by the majority of Canadians. I believe you're intentionally trying to discredit democratic socialism by falsely equating it with communism.

I think we can all agree that the current system is broken, whatever you want to call it. Here's the thing: NOBODY IS TRYING TO FIX ANYTHING. EVERYONE IS JUST TRYING TO GET RICH SO THE PROBLEMS WON'T AFFECT THEM. I do not believe that any major political party in Canada has the answer. Not the Liberals, Conservatives, NDPs, Greens, BQ or PPC. Although I personally feel that the NDP will do the least harm.

Is the system broken beyond repair? If so, what do we replace it with? I believe if we continue on our current trajectory of electing Conservatives and Liberals, then authoritarian feudalism is the end result. We need to change, we just fundamentally disagree on the direction we need to go.

Some further reading:
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/ar ... sm/524943/
https://theconversation.com/amp/we-live ... -it-191422
https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/ ... alism.html
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rudder
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Re: The CEO gets legacy rates at least!

Post by rudder »

Your CEO made $12 million last year while new hire pilots makes less than $60k (including WB FO) and you are turning this thread into a debate over the definition of socialism?

Focus. Or you will get eaten alive.
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Bingo Fuel
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Re: The CEO gets legacy rates at least!

Post by Bingo Fuel »

rudder wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 2:45 pm Your CEO made $12 million last year while new hire pilots makes less than $60k (including WB FO) and you are turning this thread into a debate over the definition of socialism?

Focus. Or you will get eaten alive.
I've made my stance clear in the negots survey. 2003 wages adjusted for inflation, no less. If we cannot compare ourselves to America, at least we can compare our wages with ourselves.

I find it's more productive to discuss policy in the CWIPP slack group, and occasionally on the AC pilot forum.
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"Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
RippleRock
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Re: The CEO gets legacy rates at least!

Post by RippleRock »

How about we value our work right between Delta and United???

That's exactly where our Executive Team has slotted themselves in. 78% increase is about right....... one dime less is settling.
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Dockjock
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Re: The CEO gets legacy rates at least!

Post by Dockjock »

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