Agreement in Principle reached

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khedrei
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Re: Agreement in Principle reached

Post by khedrei »

Looks more like a joke than a rumor.

25% increase for first year FO and 66% for first year captain.

Even JT's math doesn't come up with an average of 15% on that
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RockSalty
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Re: Agreement in Principle reached

Post by RockSalty »

brokeflapoperator wrote: Sat May 20, 2023 9:26 pm Can anyone confirm this? IMG_2785.jpg
Until we get the actual contract language we don't know. These rumors are worth what you've paid for them... jack shit
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Greasy Greaser
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Re: Agreement in Principle reached

Post by Greasy Greaser »

khedrei wrote: Sat May 20, 2023 9:46 pm Looks more like a joke than a rumor.

25% increase for first year FO and 66% for first year captain.

Even JT's math doesn't come up with an average of 15% on that
Where are you getting that information???

First I heard of this, are you Bernie, Chris or Negots team?

edit: Also there is no first year captain pay at WestJet anymore so genuine question, do you work here or no?
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khedrei
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Re: Agreement in Principle reached

Post by khedrei »

Greasy Greaser wrote: Sat May 20, 2023 9:54 pm
khedrei wrote: Sat May 20, 2023 9:46 pm Looks more like a joke than a rumor.

25% increase for first year FO and 66% for first year captain.

Even JT's math doesn't come up with an average of 15% on that
Where are you getting that information???

First I heard of this, are you Bernie, Chris or Negots team?

edit: Also there is no first year captain pay at WestJet anymore so genuine question, do you work here or no?
I dont have any information. It was my opinion that the rumor picture of payscales showing 25% and 66% pay increases above was a joke.

I never claimed to work there. In fact I stated in another post that I dont when I commented about how bad this agreement looks.

Not sure what you are talking about though.
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MorePower!
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Re: Agreement in Principle reached

Post by MorePower! »

To those who don't think 23.5% raise over 4 years is enough, that scope protection and dismantling of swoop is not enough, integrating sunwing under one employer. Countless life style improvements.

I suggest you do your self and the rest of us a favor and leave Westjet and Canadian Aviation, you are extremely out of touch with life and will never be happy.

There is nothing wrong in wanting more but you have to be realistic and reasonable. This is the first negotiated contract and the MEC did a great job. Nothing in Canada will ever make you happy, move on.
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Chelsea Handler
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Re: Agreement in Principle reached

Post by Chelsea Handler »

MorePower! wrote: Sun May 21, 2023 2:17 am To those who don't think 23.5% raise over 4 years is enough, that scope protection and dismantling of swoop is not enough, integrating sunwing under one employer. Countless life style improvements.

I suggest you do your self and the rest of us a favor and leave Westjet and Canadian Aviation, you are extremely out of touch with life and will never be happy.

There is nothing wrong in wanting more but you have to be realistic and reasonable. This is the first negotiated contract and the MEC did a great job. Nothing in Canada will ever make you happy, move on.
I guess time will tell. If AC pilots get better than 100 percent less than American pilots, and a raise that only matches inflation, we will be kicking ourselves.

Maybe the union shouldn't have talked the talk about north American standard contract, when clearly this contract screams "I'm just a Canadian pilot". I hope to see AC pilots making 50 percent more than us flying the same planes, then we can look back at this oh so Canadian post you made.
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Ash Ketchum
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Re: Agreement in Principle reached

Post by Ash Ketchum »

I don't see AC making historic wage gains as it's all supply and demand and currently there is no issue on the supply side for AC pilot recruiting. Maybe if all WJ/Encore pilots stop filling AC PIT classes that would change it, but based on this AIP I'm not sure if that will be the case.
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airway
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Re: Agreement in Principle reached

Post by airway »

FOD_Vacuum wrote: Sat May 20, 2023 7:48 pm First of all, WJ MEC, thank you for trying to work as best as you could. I’m sure it’s not easy to bargain against such an out-of-touch management. I’m sorry to say but this AIP is absolutely disappointing. We’re talking about inflationary raises!?
There are other gains of course, but the 15.5% number is actually below inflation since 2018 (start of last contract). Total Inflation since 2018 is 17.3%



2023-05-21.png
2023-05-21.png (95.98 KiB) Viewed 3345 times
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khedrei
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Re: Agreement in Principle reached

Post by khedrei »

airway wrote: Sun May 21, 2023 6:40 am
FOD_Vacuum wrote: Sat May 20, 2023 7:48 pm First of all, WJ MEC, thank you for trying to work as best as you could. I’m sure it’s not easy to bargain against such an out-of-touch management. I’m sorry to say but this AIP is absolutely disappointing. We’re talking about inflationary raises!?
There are other gains of course, but the 15.5% number is actually below inflation since 2018 (start of last contract). Total Inflation since 2018 is 17.3%




2023-05-21.png
I don't buy government inflation numbers.

I dont know about you guys, but food, rent, and other materials are up 30-50% just in the last 2 years where I live. 17% is bullshit.
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khedrei
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Re: Agreement in Principle reached

Post by khedrei »

MorePower! wrote: Sun May 21, 2023 2:17 am To those who don't think 23.5% raise over 4 years is enough, that scope protection and dismantling of swoop is not enough, integrating sunwing under one employer. Countless life style improvements.

I suggest you do your self and the rest of us a favor and leave Westjet and Canadian Aviation, you are extremely out of touch with life and will never be happy.

There is nothing wrong in wanting more but you have to be realistic and reasonable. This is the first negotiated contract and the MEC did a great job. Nothing in Canada will ever make you happy, move on.
We have to wait and see how the 15% is weighted, but if it has yr1 FO making anything less than 90k, it isn't enough. And I dont know why you would think it is.
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Goodman5
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Re: Agreement in Principle reached

Post by Goodman5 »

MorePower! wrote: Sun May 21, 2023 2:17 am To those who don't think 23.5% raise over 4 years is enough, that scope protection and dismantling of swoop is not enough, integrating sunwing under one employer. Countless life style improvements.

I suggest you do your self and the rest of us a favor and leave Westjet and Canadian Aviation, you are extremely out of touch with life and will never be happy.

There is nothing wrong in wanting more but you have to be realistic and reasonable. This is the first negotiated contract and the MEC did a great job. Nothing in Canada will ever make you happy, move on.
[/quote

😂 Hi Alexis!
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DanWEC
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Re: Agreement in Principle reached

Post by DanWEC »

khedrei wrote: Sun May 21, 2023 6:54 am I don't buy government inflation numbers.

I dont know about you guys, but food, rent, and other materials are up 30-50% just in the last 2 years where I live. 17% is bullshit.
The government of every country uses the most favourable possible metrics to determine inflation, as it devalues their currency and therefore credit, etc against other countries.

The big one for us that skews the numbers like mad is the Consumer Price Index. A 100" TV 10 years ago was 60k. Now it's 5k. This completely fucks the realistic COL numbers.
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lostaviator
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Re: Agreement in Principle reached

Post by lostaviator »

airway wrote: Sun May 21, 2023 6:40 am
FOD_Vacuum wrote: Sat May 20, 2023 7:48 pm First of all, WJ MEC, thank you for trying to work as best as you could. I’m sure it’s not easy to bargain against such an out-of-touch management. I’m sorry to say but this AIP is absolutely disappointing. We’re talking about inflationary raises!?
There are other gains of course, but the 15.5% number is actually below inflation since 2018 (start of last contract). Total Inflation since 2018 is 17.3%




2023-05-21.png
2019 was actually the start of the last contract. Same BofC calculator has inflation at exactly 15% for that period.
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MorePower!
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Re: Agreement in Principle reached

Post by MorePower! »

Well then have fun jerking each other off into misery for the next 4 years. If the language is strong, this will get voted in. And you will remain miserable as always. Why not look on the bright side for a change?

I'm done stating my opinion here, because I'm realizing more and more the majority which come on here are just here to complain and be miserable with each other. Have fun. Good luck.
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a2btrail
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Re: Agreement in Principle reached

Post by a2btrail »

Ash Ketchum wrote: Sun May 21, 2023 6:06 am I don't see AC making historic wage gains as it's all supply and demand and currently there is no issue on the supply side for AC pilot recruiting. Maybe if all WJ/Encore pilots stop filling AC PIT classes that would change it, but based on this AIP I'm not sure if that will be the case.
You do realize the power of AC pilots is just saying NO out of their mouths right? and standing up for what they want.

No leverage needed when you're coming up the end of a contract. Leverage and change for better is not predicated on classes being filled at AC.

The outcome of one group does not mean the same for another.
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lostaviator
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Re: Agreement in Principle reached

Post by lostaviator »

Now that AC is under the ALPA banner it would be great to align our contract cycles in some way. With WJ potentially entering a 4 year CA and AC negotiating this summer, it will be another 3.5 years until WJ is able to see gains again based on what AC gets. Each carrier having their go at it every 2 years going forward would be quite beneficial as far as I can tell.
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Ash Ketchum
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Re: Agreement in Principle reached

Post by Ash Ketchum »

a2btrail wrote: Sun May 21, 2023 10:16 am
Ash Ketchum wrote: Sun May 21, 2023 6:06 am I don't see AC making historic wage gains as it's all supply and demand and currently there is no issue on the supply side for AC pilot recruiting. Maybe if all WJ/Encore pilots stop filling AC PIT classes that would change it, but based on this AIP I'm not sure if that will be the case.
You do realize the power of AC pilots is just saying NO out of their mouths right? and standing up for what they want.

No leverage needed when you're coming up the end of a contract. Leverage and change for better is not predicated on classes being filled at AC.

The outcome of one group does not mean the same for another.
I agree that we can just say no, however it would definitely make it easier if other Canadian airlines had competitive contracts for AC to build on. Management has little incentive to offer massive pay increases to AC pilots if PIT courses are being filled and resignations are low.
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rudder
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Re: Agreement in Principle reached

Post by rudder »

Ash Ketchum wrote: Sun May 21, 2023 10:57 am
I agree that we can just say no, however it would definitely make it easier if other Canadian airlines had competitive contracts for AC to build on. Management has little incentive to offer massive pay increases to AC pilots if PIT courses are being filled and resignations are low.
The principal incentive will be that if the AC MEC/ALPA sends the reopener by month’s end that all sections in the CBA are subject to normal course bargaining.

The AC pilots can set their own bargaining agenda and their own bargaining priorities.
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airway
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Re: Agreement in Principle reached

Post by airway »

lostaviator wrote: Sun May 21, 2023 8:28 am
airway wrote: Sun May 21, 2023 6:40 am
FOD_Vacuum wrote: Sat May 20, 2023 7:48 pm First of all, WJ MEC, thank you for trying to work as best as you could. I’m sure it’s not easy to bargain against such an out-of-touch management. I’m sorry to say but this AIP is absolutely disappointing. We’re talking about inflationary raises!?
There are other gains of course, but the 15.5% number is actually below inflation since 2018 (start of last contract). Total Inflation since 2018 is 17.3%




2023-05-21.png
2019 was actually the start of the last contract. Same BofC calculator has inflation at exactly 15% for that period.

Ok thanks for the correction. What was the date that the last contract started?
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co-joe
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Re: Agreement in Principle reached

Post by co-joe »

Ash Ketchum wrote: Sun May 21, 2023 6:06 am I don't see AC making historic wage gains as it's all supply and demand and currently there is no issue on the supply side for AC pilot recruiting. Maybe if all WJ/Encore pilots stop filling AC PIT classes that would change it, but based on this AIP I'm not sure if that will be the case.
The worst part is that when the dust settles and WS pilots see what a weak contract this is, AC will continue to have zero trouble attracting WS pilots, and with no trouble filling groundschools, flay pay is here to stay. Plus there's nothing here for Encore, plus WG captains will all quit when they get downgraded as will lots of Swoopers, plus Sunwing FO's will go from 2 year upgrades to WS's 10+ year plan, the company still has the ability to weaponize jumpseat travel which hurts WS commuters....
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