Skycare runway overrun Deer Lake May 19 2023

[rando]

Few details, however no injuries reported thankfully.

https://www.nwonewswatch.com/local-news ... m=referral

[digits_]

Few details, however no injuries reported thankfully.

https://www.nwonewswatch.com/local-news ... m=referral

There must be more to it if TSB is sending out investigators.

[indieadventurer]

Appears to be C-FRPX. Glad to hear everyone is okay! That’s a tough job.

[PilotKid13]

Well that is the second Merlin to be written off for this company.

[Lake Man]

I've been in the industry for over 20 years. Worked for Skgcare for a number of those years. Out of the haf dozen or so companies that i have worked for, there are only two that I can honestly say I fully enjoyed and had fun at, Skycare is one of those. As I prefer to be an individual that works hard, putting in significant effort while at work, Skycare offered .me the opportunity to do so and rewarded me accordingly. I found this company to be full of individuals who operated with the same mindset.
I'm grateful no one was significantly hurt in this incident and wish Godspeed and continued safety to the hard working people at this company.

[‘Bob’]

I've been in the industry for over 20 years. Worked for Skgcare for a number of those years. Out of the haf dozen or so companies that i have worked for, there are only two that I can honestly say I fully enjoyed and had fun at, Skycare is one of those. As I prefer to be an individual that works hard, putting in significant effort while at work, Skycare offered .me the opportunity to do so and rewarded me accordingly. I found this company to be full of individuals who operated with the same mindset.
I'm grateful no one was significantly hurt in this incident and wish Godspeed and continued safety to the hard working people at this company.

Based

[Lake Man]

YXL

[pelmet]

C-FRPX, a Fairchild Aircraft SA227-TT operated by Skycare Air Ambulance, was conducting flight
PHX518 from Sioux Lookout (CYXL), ON, to Deer Lake (CYVZ), ON with 4 crew members and 1
passenger on board. Upon arriving at CYVZ, the crew conducted the RNAV approach to Runway
31. At minimums, the crew conducted a missed approach due to low visibility in fog. After the
missed approach procedure, the crew decided to conduct a second approach to Runway 31 using
a pilot monitored approach (PMA) technique with the First Officer flying and the Captain
monitoring. During the second approach, upon selecting the landing gear down when established
on the final approach course, the nose gear down and lock indication did not illuminate. The
captain cycled the gear twice and achieved a nose gear safe indication after the second cycle.
Upon arriving at minimums, the Captain acquired the runway lights and assumed control of the
aircraft. The aircraft descended and struck the terrain in the clearway preceding Runway 31. The
aircraft’s gear collapsed and the aircraft came to rest on its belly prior to the threshold of Runway
31. The occupants were able to egress through the over-wing exit. The captain sustained minor
injuries. There was no fire and the 406-MHz ELT activated. TSB investigators deployed to the site.

[FL030]

Did the person they risked their lives to medevac survive?

[TeePeeCreeper]

Did the person they risked their lives to medevac survive?

It’s a red herring and not how medevacs work. Usually the crew is kept in the dark about the patient and their condition.

Secondly, what’s this about them “risking their lives”? Are you saying that shooting a PMA in legal IFR confions is dangerous?

Now what on earth happened that caused the final segment of this flight to go sideways and very quickly? That is imo the real question here.

TPC

[The Champ]

It’s always best to make it in on the first try.

[Dry Guy]

Now what on earth happened that caused the final segment of this flight to go sideways and very quickly? That is imo the real question here.

" low visibility in fog."

We may never know.

[2112]

I wonder if any Ornge crews weather checked this call first? Investigation should start with medcom.

[digits_]

I wonder if any Ornge crews weather checked this call first? Investigation should start with medcom.

Why? What would be the outcome of that?
Either they didn't refuse the call, in which case it's irrelevant. Or they did refuse a call first. And then what, are we going to stop all flights because one crew in the province turned it down before?

As long as you have proper alternates, you can go around all day trying to make it to your destination. That should not be an issue at all.

[TeePeeCreeper]

I wonder if any Ornge crews weather checked this call first? Investigation should start with medcom.

Why? What would be the outcome of that?
Either they didn't refuse the call, in which case it's irrelevant. Or they did refuse a call first. And then what, are we going to stop all flights because one crew in the province turned it down before?

It’s relevant as it’s a not so big secret that after Ornge refuses a call that Medcom shops around for another op to fill the mission. They aren’t supposed to but I’ve seen it happen first hand.

(My medevac days are well in the past so things have hopefully changed since then)

TPC

[digits_]

I wonder if any Ornge crews weather checked this call first? Investigation should start with medcom.

Why? What would be the outcome of that?
Either they didn't refuse the call, in which case it's irrelevant. Or they did refuse a call first. And then what, are we going to stop all flights because one crew in the province turned it down before?

It’s relevant as it’s a not so big secret that after Ornge refuses a call that Medcom shops around for another op to fill the mission. They aren’t supposed to but I’ve seen it happen first hand.

(My medevac days are well in the past so things have hopefully changed since then)

TPC

I understand that it might happen, but I don't see this as a relevant cause for an accident. A passenger asking you to fly in unsafe conditions should result in a "no". Not in an investigation as to why the passenger asked you to fly.

[FL030]

Does Skycare still get paid if they miss and go home?

[TeePeeCreeper]

Why? What would be the outcome of that?
Either they didn't refuse the call, in which case it's irrelevant. Or they did refuse a call first. And then what, are we going to stop all flights because one crew in the province turned it down before?

It’s relevant as it’s a not so big secret that after Ornge refuses a call that Medcom shops around for another op to fill the mission. They aren’t supposed to but I’ve seen it happen first hand.

(My medevac days are well in the past so things have hopefully changed since then)

TPC

I understand that it might happen, but I don't see this as a relevant cause for an accident. A passenger asking you to fly in unsafe conditions should result in a "no". Not in an investigation as to why the passenger asked you to fly.

Agreed. But where did you get a sniff of a a pax/patient asking any questions? My prior experiences, most passengers (all of them) never asked any questions… anyone else who did (accompanying family members) were politely heard out and usually dismissed.

In several thousands of hours, never did a medic (respected crew member) say a word. Those boys and gals are and can be pretty vocal. As a Captain back then, I listened to them as valued crew members. Only then was a final decision made by the crew up front. If you think I listened to the patient well… nope, I never did!

FL030 insinuated something that isn’t the case.

I’m now far removed from the medevac sector but I really resent people whom have no knowledge commenting on the subject.

TPC

[TeePeeCreeper]

Does Skycare still get paid if they miss and go home?

If you have an axe to grind, man (or woman) up and start a new thread rather than piggy backing on this one. Your tone reeks of past grievances and it’s unrelated to this thread.

TPC

[okman]

I've been in the industry for over 20 years. Worked for Skgcare for a number of those years. Out of the haf dozen or so companies that i have worked for, there are only two that I can honestly say I fully enjoyed and had fun at, Skycare is one of those. As I prefer to be an individual that works hard, putting in significant effort while at work, Skycare offered .me the opportunity to do so and rewarded me accordingly. I found this company to be full of individuals who operated with the same mindset.
I'm grateful no one was significantly hurt in this incident and wish Godspeed and continued safety to the hard working people at this company.

when did you work there lol.

[NotDirty!]

Does Skycare still get paid if they miss and go home?

If you have an axe to grind, man (or woman) up and start a new thread rather than piggy backing on this one. Your tone reeks of past grievances and it’s unrelated to this thread.

TPC

The company still gets paid by Ornge. Which I believe was the question. Whether or not the crew gets paid I cannot answer.

[NotDirty!]

I wonder if any Ornge crews weather checked this call first? Investigation should start with medcom.

Why? What would be the outcome of that?
Either they didn't refuse the call, in which case it's irrelevant. Or they did refuse a call first. And then what, are we going to stop all flights because one crew in the province turned it down before?

It’s relevant as it’s a not so big secret that after Ornge refuses a call that Medcom shops around for another op to fill the mission. They aren’t supposed to but I’ve seen it happen first hand.

(My medevac days are well in the past so things have hopefully changed since then)

TPC

I know their policy is supposed to be that they cannot ask another carrier if one has turned a trip down for weather, until some time has elapsed. I did have one night when I called in after landing to drop off a patient, to have the dispatcher tell me “I’m not supposed to ask, because someone already turned it down for weather, but since you’re already on the ground there, can you take a patient outbound”. To be clear it was because of the (GFA forecast) weather in YWP that the other crew declined, but as I had landed there (admittedly it was close to minimums), and YXL was fine, I accepted.

[DHC3Rwannafly]

SP 19/05/2023 07:44->
SPECI CZSJ 190744Z AUTO 24002KT 1SM BR CLR 01/01 A3000 RMK VIS VRB 3/4-3 ICE PAST HR SLP178=
SP 19/05/2023 07:30->
SPECI CZSJ 190730Z AUTO 23003KT 210V290 1/2SM FG CLR 01/01 A3000 RMK ICE MISG SLP176=
SP 19/05/2023 07:16->
SPECI CZSJ 190716Z AUTO 28003KT 1/8SM FG FEW002 00/00 A3000 RMK ICE SLP178=
SP 19/05/2023 07:14->
SPECI CZSJ 190714Z AUTO 29004KT 1/8SM FG FEW002 00/00 A3000 RMK SLP179=
SP 19/05/2023 07:12->
SPECI CZSJ 190712Z AUTO 29004KT 1/8SM FZFG SCT002 M00/M00 A3000 RMK SLP179=
SP 19/05/2023 07:11->
SPECI CZSJ 190711Z AUTO 29004KT 1/8SM FG SCT002 00/00 A3000 RMK SLP179=
SP 19/05/2023 07:06->
SPECI CZSJ 190706Z AUTO 30004KT 1/8SM FZFG SCT002 M00/M00 A3000 RMK SLP179=
SA 19/05/2023 07:00->
METAR CZSJ 190700Z AUTO 29003KT 1/4SM FG BKN002 00/00 A3000 RMK SLP176=
SP 19/05/2023 06:57->
SPECI CZSJ 190657Z AUTO 30003KT 1/4SM FZFG BKN002 M00/M00 A3000 RMK SLP179=
SP 19/05/2023 06:44->
SPECI CZSJ 190644Z AUTO VRB02KT 3/8SM FG BKN002 00/00 A2999 RMK SLP174=
SP 19/05/2023 06:42->
SPECI CZSJ 190642Z AUTO VRB02KT 1/2SM FG BKN002 00/00 A2999 RMK SLP176=
SP 19/05/2023 06:18->
SPECI CZSJ 190618Z AUTO 00000KT 1SM BR FEW002 01/01 A2999 RMK SLP174=
SA 19/05/2023 06:00->
METAR CZSJ 190600Z AUTO 30003KT 3/4SM BR CLR 01/01 A2998 RMK SLP170=
SP 19/05/2023 05:47->
SPECI CZSJ 190547Z AUTO 29004KT 1/2SM FG CLR 01/01 A2999 RMK SLP174=
SP 19/05/2023 05:33->
SPECI CZSJ 190533Z AUTO 30004KT 3/8SM FG CLR 01/01 A2998 RMK SLP172=
SA 19/05/2023 05:00->
METAR CZSJ 190500Z AUTO 30004KT 1/2SM FG CLR 01/01 A2997 RMK SLP167

[digits_]

It’s relevant as it’s a not so big secret that after Ornge refuses a call that Medcom shops around for another op to fill the mission. They aren’t supposed to but I’ve seen it happen first hand.

(My medevac days are well in the past so things have hopefully changed since then)

TPC

I understand that it might happen, but I don't see this as a relevant cause for an accident. A passenger asking you to fly in unsafe conditions should result in a "no". Not in an investigation as to why the passenger asked you to fly.

Agreed. But where did you get a sniff of a a pax/patient asking any questions? My prior experiences, most passengers (all of them) never asked any questions… anyone else who did (accompanying family members) were politely heard out and usually dismissed.

Sorry, I used some unclear wording. I was responding to the insinuation that medcom should be the starting point of the investigation. You can think of medcom as the customer. If a charter plane would crash because a customer really wanted to make it to their destination, it would never be used as a valid cause for an accident. That's why I don't think the 'blame medcom' or 'start the investigation there' is a valid avenue.

[2112]

I understand that it might happen, but I don't see this as a relevant cause for an accident. A passenger asking you to fly in unsafe conditions should result in a "no". Not in an investigation as to why the passenger asked you to fly.

Agreed. But where did you get a sniff of a a pax/patient asking any questions? My prior experiences, most passengers (all of them) never asked any questions… anyone else who did (accompanying family members) were politely heard out and usually dismissed.

Sorry, I used some unclear wording. I was responding to the insinuation that medcom should be the starting point of the investigation. You can think of medcom as the customer. If a charter plane would crash because a customer really wanted to make it to their destination, it would never be used as a valid cause for an accident. That's why I don't think the 'blame medcom' or 'start the investigation there' is a valid avenue.

While I see your point, in Ontario the Medcom AKA Ornge OCC assigns flight assignments to medevac assets whether they be Ornge in house or Standing Agreement carriers. I have first hand experience as well with regards to the OCC shopping around calls that Ornge dedicated crews have declined for weather and assigning then to companies with a more 'git er done' approach. Take away what you will from this accident but if you know you know.