AIP is dogshit

[Maritimer]

2 of the 6 ALPA reps didn’t want it actually and thought that going on strike was a better option! This will go through barely I bet and will send a strong message that 40% of the pilots think this contract is bs! We shall see on Friday.

I am sorry but when 2 of 6 say no, there are some red flags.

Yes there are, the red flags mean that it's time for those two reps to be recalled. I have heard from one of their own mouths directly why they voted no, and 2 of the 3 items weren't a part of the mandate given by the membership. Remember, the union is run bottom up, and when reps vote off their own ideals rather than those of the mandate given by the membership, then it is time to go.

[Flight_Deck]

It’s interesting. I heard from a credible source that one of the guys never had any intention on striking which is a complete conflict of interest. Who to believe?!

[TFTMB heavy]

They lost the strike advantage when WS said they would lock them out. The pressure on the union would have been tremendous at that point and only they know if it was worth it or not when they got the last offer.

How would that affect anything?
'We're not going to work until you agree to our terms'
- 'Ha, we're not going to let you work!'
'Ok...'

Not really the strongest of threats.

It's always better to leave a few bucks on the table then bully the company into a deal they won't respect down the line.

Then why have a contract at all? What makes you so sure they'll respect this contract then? The PR damage was already done.

It's a shift of power and it's not as cut and dry to wear the pressure of parking the fleet and they come back and say we're dropping our last offer by 5% every day or whatever else they decide.

You have a contract so you can fight them legally in front of the CIRB. All I'm trying to say is you take the best deal you can, you never know when you took all the money.

[TFTMB heavy]

2 of the 6 ALPA reps didn’t want it actually and thought that going on strike was a better option! This will go through barely I bet and will send a strong message that 40% of the pilots think this contract is bs! We shall see on Friday.

I am sorry but when 2 of 6 say no, there are some red flags.

Those two should have remained quiet and show solidarity to the other reps. REP vote results should never be released, there's no point.

[rudder]

2 of the 6 ALPA reps didn’t want it actually and thought that going on strike was a better option! This will go through barely I bet and will send a strong message that 40% of the pilots think this contract is bs! We shall see on Friday.

I am sorry but when 2 of 6 say no, there are some red flags.

Those two should have remained quiet and show solidarity to the other reps. REP vote results should never be released, there's no point.

Why not? How else can there be accountability?

Representative democracy is transparent. Or at least it should be. That was one of ACPA’s greatest flaws.

[TFTMB heavy]

2 of the 6 ALPA reps didn’t want it actually and thought that going on strike was a better option! This will go through barely I bet and will send a strong message that 40% of the pilots think this contract is bs! We shall see on Friday.

I am sorry but when 2 of 6 say no, there are some red flags.

Those two should have remained quiet and show solidarity to the other reps. REP vote results should never be released, there's no point.

Why not? How else can there be accountability?

Representative democracy is transparent. Or at least it should be. That was one of ACPA’s greatest flaws.

In my opinion the whole MEC should present a united front. It's always best to strive for consensus to start with but if it can't be achieved and you vote against then you fall in line and support the agreement. Makes for better representation and less division for membership. That's my opinion and how we operated when I was a rep.

[Fredsbutt]

The blue Kool Aid is still flowing strong!

[JBI]

2 of the 6 ALPA reps didn’t want it actually and thought that going on strike was a better option! This will go through barely I bet and will send a strong message that 40% of the pilots think this contract is bs! We shall see on Friday.

I am sorry but when 2 of 6 say no, there are some red flags.

Yes there are, the red flags mean that it's time for those two reps to be recalled. I have heard from one of their own mouths directly why they voted no, and 2 of the 3 items weren't a part of the mandate given by the membership. Remember, the union is run bottom up, and when reps vote off their own ideals rather than those of the mandate given by the membership, then it is time to go.

+1

If the TA passes by a pretty big majority the reps that voted No need to take a really long look at whether they are actually listening to what the majority of their pilots want or just the vocal minority.

Just as if the TA fails the standard path is for some or all of the NC or MEC execs to resign.

While dissenting opinions and constructive debate are necessary and welcome, it’s important that they actually represent their pilots and not just their own views.

[Blackdog0301]

TA passed with a 86.9% in favor vote and 95.4% of eligible voters partaking.

[rudder]

TA passed with a 86.9% in favor vote and 95.4% of eligible voters partaking.

Congrats. That is higher than many anticipated.

It certainly validates the TA based on the member survey as well as consistent solidarity amongst the pilot group at large.

Now the task of implementation and enforcement. Good luck!

[Blackdog0301]

Word is that Swoop will not operate beyond its Summer schedule this year... Ending October 28th with no intention of operating beyond that.

[Airbrake]

Word is that Swoop will not operate beyond its Summer schedule this year... Ending October 28th with no intention of operating beyond that.

Alexis held a WO townhall and stated that integration will be complete by Oct with WS.

[bcflyer]

2 of the 6 ALPA reps didn’t want it actually and thought that going on strike was a better option! This will go through barely I bet and will send a strong message that 40% of the pilots think this contract is bs! We shall see on Friday.

I am sorry but when 2 of 6 say no, there are some red flags.

This didn’t age well…..

[Chelsea Handler]

2 of the 6 ALPA reps didn’t want it actually and thought that going on strike was a better option! This will go through barely I bet and will send a strong message that 40% of the pilots think this contract is bs! We shall see on Friday.

I am sorry but when 2 of 6 say no, there are some red flags.

This didn’t age well…..

BCflyer forgot that we are just Canadian pilots.

Anyways, glad we can move forward, more to gain next time around. A step forward, no matter how large or small, is still moving forward and not backwards.

[Romain]

I know there have been lots of positive in the new contract, but regarding the pension plan:
For an $100k income, the company now places $10k instead of $20k previously? I understand that it doesn't need the pilot to put $10k anymore, but I feel that it is a pretty huge step back. Or I don't get it right?

[Dyna]

That is correct, with one important detail missing. The other 10% from the company is added to each pay. It’s not lost, the company still contributes a full 20%. We just get half of it as cash on payday to invest, or spend on liquorice and pop rocks if we so choose.

[Protonpilot]

I know there have been lots of positive in the new contract, but regarding the pension plan:
For an $100k income, the company now places $10k instead of $20k previously? I understand that it doesn't need the pilot to put $10k anymore, but I feel that it is a pretty huge step back. Or I don't get it right?

Question for you.

With this yet to be identified pension plan, is the intent for pilots to contribute the other 8% in order to reach the 18% maximum that many plans have in place? Some plans allow higher than 18% combined but require a 50/50 split, which would mean a 10% contribution from pilots. That's how it works for jointly sponsored plans like the TTC, OPTrust, OMERS, etc.

If you're going to be contributing that much, is that common knowledge among the group?

[dontcallmeshirley]

That is correct, with one important detail missing. The other 10% from the company is added to each pay. It’s not lost, the company still contributes a full 20%. We just get half of it as cash on payday to invest, or spend on liquorice and pop rocks if we so choose.

9.1%

[digits_]

That is correct, with one important detail missing. The other 10% from the company is added to each pay. It’s not lost, the company still contributes a full 20%. We just get half of it as cash on payday to invest, or spend on liquorice and pop rocks if we so choose.

9.1%

100 * 1.10 * 1.09 = 120
100 * 1.20 = 120

[dontcallmeshirley]

That is correct, with one important detail missing. The other 10% from the company is added to each pay. It’s not lost, the company still contributes a full 20%. We just get half of it as cash on payday to invest, or spend on liquorice and pop rocks if we so choose.

9.1%

100 * 1.10 * 1.091 = 120
100 * 1.20 = 120

Edit: The below text in red is incorrect as the 9.1% is added to the salary before the 10% match is calculated. Additionally, the loss is only $900.

The effective amount is 19.1% as the the 10% and 9.1% are added together, not multiplied.

On a $100,000 base salary, you are losing $9000. The benefit is that you're getting $91,000 right away instead of waiting a year for it.