Air Canada Pilots Pull Out

[RVR6000]

ACPA

Worst. Representation. Ever.

Let’s not forget a lot of is up to the members. Even today some can’t seem to read between the lines of the MEC Chairs message.

Changing the placard on the door to ALPA won’t help much if the members can’t collectively unite with a strong message to the company.

[ALPAisAwesome]

ACPA

Worst. Representation. Ever.

Let’s not forget a lot of it members. Even today some can’t seem to read between the lines of the MEC Chairs message.

Changing the placard on the door to ALPA won’t help much if the members can’t collectively unite with a strong message to the company.

Was trying to read between the lines a bit. Wondering what Charlene meant when she referred to a "productive relationship"? Does she mean that we're going to work towards a productive relationship or is that over and we're looking forward to a confrontational relationship?

[truedude]

ACPA

Worst. Representation. Ever.

Let’s not forget a lot of it members. Even today some can’t seem to read between the lines of the MEC Chairs message.

Changing the placard on the door to ALPA won’t help much if the members can’t collectively unite with a strong message to the company.

Was trying to read between the lines a bit. Wondering what Charlene meant when she referred to a "productive relationship"? Does she mean that we're going to work towards a productive relationship or is that over and we're looking forward to a confrontational relationship?

It means don't do overtime until the company pulls its head out of its ass. Also don't burn yourself out for a company that will throw every dirty trick they have at you in a bid to not pay you more.

[Fanblade]

Was trying to read between the lines a bit. Wondering what Charlene meant when she referred to a "productive relationship"? Does she mean that we're going to work towards a productive relationship or is that over and we're looking forward to a confrontational relationship?

No one knows what she meant for certainty do they. My read is that she wants a productive relationship with the company where respect and a willingness to value its pilot's exist.

Who wouldn't want that. The problem of course is that any productive relationship requires willingness from both sides.

Maybe I am wrong. But I don't believe management has any intension of showing its pilot value without being forced. Unfortunate. But hey that is just how this game seems to be played all the time.

[GeoffPilot]

ACPA

Worst. Representation. Ever.

Let’s not forget a lot of it members. Even today some can’t seem to read between the lines of the MEC Chairs message.

Changing the placard on the door to ALPA won’t help much if the members can’t collectively unite with a strong message to the company.

Was trying to read between the lines a bit. Wondering what Charlene meant when she referred to a "productive relationship"? Does she mean that we're going to work towards a productive relationship or is that over and we're looking forward to a confrontational relationship?

Up to the company what kind of relationship they get

The B1s wasn't a good start

[RippleRock]

Was trying to read between the lines a bit. Wondering what Charlene meant when she referred to a "productive relationship"? Does she mean that we're going to work towards a productive relationship or is that over and we're looking forward to a confrontational relationship?

No one knows what she meant for certainty do they. My read is that she wants a productive relationship with the company where respect and a willingness to value its pilot's exist.

Who wouldn't want that. The problem of course is that any productive relationship requires willingness from both sides.

Maybe I am wrong. But I don't believe management has any intension of showing its pilot value without being forced. Unfortunate. But hey that is just how this game seems to be played all the time.

Agreed.

There should be at least 80% of us "READING BETWEEN THE LINES". Did you VOTE for change or not??? Do you WANT change or not? Did you vote for ALPA? If so act like it.

Everyone stands up and follows her lead. Not next week, not next month, not in September, not when its "convenient for you". NOW.

She's sending a message. FOLLOW IT. She said enjoy your days off this summer, and work "safely". She's being as clear as she can possibly be.

[altiplano]

"Productive relationship"

For the company that means we work more, make less, shut up, and just be happy to be here.

It's been completely one way for the past 20 years, we keep giving and giving to this operation thinking next time it will be different. I hope someone told ALPA we're going to need some storage space for all of our dry powder and drawer letters coming over.

The company ignores our reps and leadership. The company had a chance to salvage labour peace and come through to maintain the framework MOA, but instead they chose to ignore us and just pull the B-passes. They think we're just going to take it and vote yes again, "Pilots always vote yes."

I'm sick of the apologists. The quicker everyone realises that this company doesn't give a shit about you and isn't going to do f-all for us unless we hurt them financially and take what we are owed, then all the less it will ultimately cost us and them vs. drawing this out.

As long as everyone is going above and beyond to keep this operation going the company will do nothing for you. F-ing nothing. As far as they're concerned they don't need to. You're working extra trips, you're extending to keep things on the rails, you must be happy, you're keeping the operation together for them.

The only message they get is when you stop answering the phone, stop fixing their problems for them. The sooner we all get that message through to them, the more ammo our Negots Comm will have to back up their demands.

The MEC said it in the newsletter last week - "Canadian summers are too short, enjoy your time at home with family and friends."

Everyone needs to get with that program. If you're still listing OT you're a fool.

This is the most critical contract of all of our careers. This is it. Now. This determines not only our futures, but that of a generation of pilots to follow. Now is the time to make it happen. It isn't fucking easy. This is what it takes. Some hard men did it for us a couple generations ago, then the most recent group squandered it, it's time to get it back.

[co-joe]

Sounds like the pilots are pulling out?

Does that mean there is a strike soon?

I was looking at booking a flight for this summer, maybe I should book thru someone else?

...

This summer, travel will be unaffected, but maybe if the current contract ends in September, ALPA can use the Christmas travel season as a bargaining tool like WS ALPA used the May long weekend.

Will strike if provoked!

[RVR6000]

Sounds like the pilots are pulling out?

Does that mean there is a strike soon?

I was looking at booking a flight for this summer, maybe I should book thru someone else?

...

This summer, travel will be unaffected, but maybe if the current contract ends in September, ALPA can use the Christmas travel season as a bargaining tool like WS ALPA used the May long weekend.

Will strike if provoked!

.

[TheStig]

Maybe I am wrong. But I don't believe management has any intension of showing its pilot value without being forced. Unfortunate. But hey that is just how this game seems to be played all the time.

Unfortunately I think we can all see that you’re not wrong. AC management only see’s their side of the ‘constructive relationship’. MEC’s that don’t bend to their will are tuned out and dismissed. The membership needs to bring the company to the table, every day that the pilot group works under the current CA is a windfall for the airline. Managements stance is that everything is fine and the future is bright, the pilot group has run out of patience.

The airline needs to have a highly profitable summer. The CEO hasn’t produced results for the investment community and has shown no vision for the airline, unless he want to be the next Montie Brewer the airline needs to demonstrate some leadership at the top.

Surfacing every fiscal quarter to stick your foot in your mouth and have your minions offend your employee groups via bulletin isn’t going to get the job done. Pretending everything is working just fine isn’t going to get the job done. Fighting for every inch against employees that suffered during the pandemic and now against inflation isn’t going to provide any stability to the business. Senior management has two jobs maintain a healthy balance sheet and plan for the future in a constantly changing industry, they need to be shown that dragging their feet into negotiations isn’t going to work.

Stop flying on your days off. The MEC is waiting to answer the phone, you shouldn’t be.

[Tbayer2021]

Stop flying on your days off. The MEC is waiting to answer the phone, you shouldn’t be.

Now thats funny! I bet that willing to fly list is about as long as the roster itself.

[Sharklasers]

Stop flying on your days off. The MEC is waiting to answer the phone, you shouldn’t be.

Now thats funny! I bet that willing to fly list is about as long as the roster itself.

Judging by this weekends staffing shit show in YYZ you are wrong.

[altiplano]

We all need to engage the guys next to us every pairing.

The company managers are pretending that they don't have anything to address with us now or in the incoming negotiations, they think that status quo is good enough.

The company will not do anything without us forcing them. Not covering the flying with VO is the first step. We aren't getting a better contract without sending a message with our actions.

Stay home, enjoy your summer, get an industry leading contract this fall, and then we can come back and make up for any lost opportunity.

It's time for Air Canada Pilots to play the long game for a change.

[Ash Ketchum]

We all need to engage the guys next to us every pairing.

The company managers are pretending that they don't have anything to address with us now or in the incoming negotiations, they think that status quo is good enough.

The company will not do anything without us forcing them. Not covering the flying with VO is the first step. We aren't getting a better contract without sending a message with our actions.

Stay home, enjoy your summer, get an industry leading contract this fall, and then we can come back and make up for any lost opportunity.

It's time for Air Canada Pilots to play the long game for a change.

I agree with this 100% however I think there can be exceptions for some flat pay pilots. I am personally first year flat pay and have a stay at home wife, few pre school kids (wouldn't make sense for wife to work given the cost of daycare), and a mortgage so to be honest I will probably take VO if it comes even though my principals are telling me to hold out. I hope no one hates on me for doing what I have to do to support my family.

[Bede]

Everyone stands up and follows her lead. Not next week, not next month, not in September, not when its "convenient for you". NOW.

She's sending a message. FOLLOW IT. She said enjoy your days off this summer, and work "safely". She's being as clear as she can possibly be.

This is bang on. You support your MEC when times are good and you support them when times are tough. You want a decent contract? You need to be unified and EVERYONE needs to signal to the company that their MEC speaks for them. If the company gets a whiff that they can buy off a few select groups with a few goodies, they'll do it. If you don't like your MEC, vote them out next election, but while they're your MEC, you support them.

[Fanblade]

I agree with this 100% however I think there can be exceptions for some flat pay pilots. I am personally first year flat pay and have a stay at home wife, few pre school kids (wouldn't make sense for wife to work given the cost of daycare), and a mortgage so to be honest I will probably take VO if it comes even though my principals are telling me to hold out. I hope no one hates on me for doing what I have to do to support my family.

Ash,

I totally get where you are coming from. But stick with your principles. It is shortsighted to work against your own future even in the situation you find yourself in. Everyone needs to stand behind the MEC chair. She says jump? Our only question is how high.

I could make my own excuse. I’m about to retire. I won’t benefit from a new contract. VO would help my pension. But that is not what I am going to do.

I am going to stay laser focused on our chair. Supporting her will support fixing the travesty of your wages. Not supporting her is working to keep your future wages, and the wages of future new hires, lower.

A better future does not come free of sacrifice.

[Blueontop]

We all need to engage the guys next to us every pairing.

The company managers are pretending that they don't have anything to address with us now or in the incoming negotiations, they think that status quo is good enough.

The company will not do anything without us forcing them. Not covering the flying with VO is the first step. We aren't getting a better contract without sending a message with our actions.

Stay home, enjoy your summer, get an industry leading contract this fall, and then we can come back and make up for any lost opportunity.

It's time for Air Canada Pilots to play the long game for a change.

I agree with this 100% however I think there can be exceptions for some flat pay pilots. I am personally first year flat pay and have a stay at home wife, few pre school kids (wouldn't make sense for wife to work given the cost of daycare), and a mortgage so to be honest I will probably take VO if it comes even though my principals are telling me to hold out. I hope no one hates on me for doing what I have to do to support my family.

Ash you came to AC and justified by telling yourself/family “short term pain for long term gain”, right? Now you MUST use that same mental gymnastic to preserve your own self interest. You want to survive 4 years of flat pay? Well how about if you don’t have to? What if by not accepting VO the company becomes so desperate they say OK! No more flat pay or 1 year probationary pay.

Wouldn’t you be much better off in the long term because you actually embraced the motto that justified going to AC in the first place? I’m assuming you might be yyz based as there is another post in the general airline section about this exact situation and I posted there as well, just to come here and see this makes me very nervous about the coming months. You simply cannot accept VO.

Look at the westjet pilots, they were willing to walk off the job. If AC come to that point what are you going to do?

Remember hard times create strong men, strong men create good times.

Listen to your MEC and be the change I know you want. Do it for your family’s future.

[Ash Ketchum]

We all need to engage the guys next to us every pairing.

The company managers are pretending that they don't have anything to address with us now or in the incoming negotiations, they think that status quo is good enough.

The company will not do anything without us forcing them. Not covering the flying with VO is the first step. We aren't getting a better contract without sending a message with our actions.

Stay home, enjoy your summer, get an industry leading contract this fall, and then we can come back and make up for any lost opportunity.

It's time for Air Canada Pilots to play the long game for a change.

I agree with this 100% however I think there can be exceptions for some flat pay pilots. I am personally first year flat pay and have a stay at home wife, few pre school kids (wouldn't make sense for wife to work given the cost of daycare), and a mortgage so to be honest I will probably take VO if it comes even though my principals are telling me to hold out. I hope no one hates on me for doing what I have to do to support my family.

Ash you came to AC and justified by telling yourself/family “short term pain for long term gain”, right? Now you MUST use that same mental gymnastic to preserve your own self interest. You want to survive 4 years of flat pay? Well how about if you don’t have to? What if by not accepting VO the company becomes so desperate they say OK! No more flat pay or 1 year probationary pay.

Wouldn’t you be much better off in the long term because you actually embraced the motto that justified going to AC in the first place? I’m assuming you might be yyz based as there is another post in the general airline section about this exact situation and I posted there as well, just to come here and see this makes me very nervous about the coming months. You simply cannot accept VO.

Look at the westjet pilots, they were willing to walk off the job. If AC come to that point what are you going to do?

Remember hard times create strong men, strong men create good times.

Listen to your MEC and be the change I know you want. Do it for your family’s future.

Yeah I may just end up starting a side business/hustle to supplement the income. Problem with that is that I will likely have to invest money into it with no guarantee of return so definitely more risky than working VO. Was thinking I can maybe paint houses or do junk removal or something.

[Blueontop]

I agree with this 100% however I think there can be exceptions for some flat pay pilots. I am personally first year flat pay and have a stay at home wife, few pre school kids (wouldn't make sense for wife to work given the cost of daycare), and a mortgage so to be honest I will probably take VO if it comes even though my principals are telling me to hold out. I hope no one hates on me for doing what I have to do to support my family.

Ash you came to AC and justified by telling yourself/family “short term pain for long term gain”, right? Now you MUST use that same mental gymnastic to preserve your own self interest. You want to survive 4 years of flat pay? Well how about if you don’t have to? What if by not accepting VO the company becomes so desperate they say OK! No more flat pay or 1 year probationary pay.

Wouldn’t you be much better off in the long term because you actually embraced the motto that justified going to AC in the first place? I’m assuming you might be yyz based as there is another post in the general airline section about this exact situation and I posted there as well, just to come here and see this makes me very nervous about the coming months. You simply cannot accept VO.

Look at the westjet pilots, they were willing to walk off the job. If AC come to that point what are you going to do?

Remember hard times create strong men, strong men create good times.

Listen to your MEC and be the change I know you want. Do it for your family’s future.

Yeah I may just end up starting a side business/hustle to supplement the income. Problem with that is that I will likely have to invest money into it with no guarantee of return so definitely more risky than working VO. Was thinking I can maybe paint houses or do junk removal or something.

And quintessentially this is the point right here. This mentality, this reasoning is exactly what management is banking on. Don’t let them win again.

No one with your responsibility, your experience and all the effort you sacrificed to get to our nations flag carrier should have to even make that decision. To have that on your mind while transporting hundreds of people across the world, over remote oceans in the dark of night. I would suspect that the traveling public wants every part of your being focused on their safety. Not worrying about getting that paint job done on time, under budget.

We all must be UNITED to fix this for ourselves and the future.

(I’m reminded as I write those last words, mel Gibson, braveheart, speaking to the squabbling Scottish nobles,”in the name of Christ help yourselves, unite!”)

[rooster]

We all need to engage the guys next to us every pairing.

The company managers are pretending that they don't have anything to address with us now or in the incoming negotiations, they think that status quo is good enough.

The company will not do anything without us forcing them. Not covering the flying with VO is the first step. We aren't getting a better contract without sending a message with our actions.

Stay home, enjoy your summer, get an industry leading contract this fall, and then we can come back and make up for any lost opportunity.

It's time for Air Canada Pilots to play the long game for a change.

I agree with this 100% however I think there can be exceptions for some flat pay pilots. I am personally first year flat pay and have a stay at home wife, few pre school kids (wouldn't make sense for wife to work given the cost of daycare), and a mortgage so to be honest I will probably take VO if it comes even though my principals are telling me to hold out. I hope no one hates on me for doing what I have to do to support my family.

I'm sorry but while I sympathize with your family financial position, I think if you can't support your family on flat pay without the NEED for overtime, then you probably should not have gone to Air Canada. Plenty of decent paying 705/704 captain jobs out there you could do (or stayed in) to support your family. This sentiment is a bit mind boggling for me. Reading the thoughts on how it is only acceptable for flat payers to pick up OT makes me shake my head. If the group collectively holds their ground, would you not stand to gain more in the long term with a much improved contract? Picking up the OT and holding out for an improved contract is a bit short sighted. I'm obviously not an AC pilot but I don't need to be one to see whats going on over there.

The industry is really watching the WJ and specifically the AC guys for their resolve. Let's see if you actually have and want it.