Applying for PPL with expired Cat 1 medical?

[mtl183181]

I got a cat 1 medical approx. 2 years ago which then expired about a year ago. I didn't renew it as I was just working on my PPL. After a lot of long breaks, I finally got my PPL done recently and am now a bit confused as to whether or not I can send my PPL application to TC while having an expired cat 1 medical? I'm aware I'm allowed to exercise PPL privileges with an expired cat 1, however I'm not sure if I can apply for a licence with it since it is still technically an expired medical.

[CaptDukeNukem]

I got a cat 1 medical approx. 2 years ago which then expired about a year ago. I didn't renew it as I was just working on my PPL. After a lot of long breaks, I finally got my PPL done recently and am now a bit confused as to whether or not I can send my PPL application to TC while having an expired cat 1 medical? I'm aware I'm allowed to exercise PPL privileges with an expired cat 1, however I'm not sure if I can apply for a licence with it since it is still technically an expired medical.

When a cat 1 lapses it goes to a cat 3 with is valid for 60 months. Your medical is now a class 3 with a validity of 60 months from your medical date to the first of the following month.

In my opinion: your cat 3 is valid and meets the requirements to get issued a license.

I believe you should be able to apply with no issues. A quick call/email to your local TC regional office should solve this if you need 100% certainty.

[Big Pistons Forever]

The downside is that your Aviation Document Booklet (ie your pilot license) will be issued with a Cat 3 medical. If you want to pursue a CPL you will have to get your medical upgraded which can take many months to process.

I would just get a medical to renew your Class 1 before sending in the paperwork. You can let it downgrade after you get your medical if you decide to stop at a PPL

[mtl183181]

The downside is that your Aviation Document Booklet (ie your pilot license) will be issued with a Cat 3 medical. If you want to pursue a CPL you will have to get your medical upgraded which can take many months to process.

I would just get a medical to renew your Class 1 before sending in the paperwork. You can let it downgrade after you get your medical if you decide to stop at a PPL

Do you happen to know how the renewal would work exactly? I know that if you have you aviation document booklet already, you just need to get it stamped by the CAME to renew the medical, however I obviously don't have a booklet yet, so would the CAME just stamp my medical certificate itself? Or would I have to wait (a long time, as you said) for TC to mail me another cat 1 medical certificate?

[photofly]

I got a cat 1 medical approx. 2 years ago which then expired about a year ago.

This is not correct. A medical never, ever, ever, expires. You hold a category 1 medical unless/until it is revoked by the Minister (which for practical purposes, never happens) or you surrender it. A particular licence or permit requires a medical to have been renewed within a certain period in order to validate that licence or permit. But even when that period has expired nothing happens to the medical certificate you hold.

You can apply for a PPL if you hold either a category 1 or category 3 medical certificate as long as you are within the validity period for a PPL which is 5 years if you're under 40, and 2 years if you're over 40.

The downside is that your Aviation Document Booklet (ie your pilot license) will be issued with a Cat 3 medical. If you want to pursue a CPL you will have to get your medical upgraded which can take many months to process.

I would just get a medical to renew your Class 1 before sending in the paperwork. You can let it downgrade after you get your medical if you decide to stop at a PPL

Respectfully, this isn't correct, either.

Your ADB will show the category 1 medical that you hold, with the relevant renewal date (of more than a year ago).

A category 1 medical never "becomes" any other category - it always remains a category 1, unless you explicitly write to TC to ask to downgrade it (and there's almost never a reason to do that.) Whether on any given day it validates any particular licence or permit depends on that day's date, the date of the last examination (that date being printed in the ADB or written in by the CAME at renewal) and the type of licence or permit.

Do you happen to know how the renewal would work exactly? I know that if you have you aviation document booklet already, you just need to get it stamped by the CAME to renew the medical, however I obviously don't have a booklet yet, so would the CAME just stamp my medical certificate itself?

Yes. You will see the renewal spaces on the reverse of the certificate, if you take the trouble to look.

[Big Pistons Forever]

[quote=mtl183181 post_id=<a href="tel:1268770">1268770</a> time=<a href="tel:1690053739">1690053739</a> user_id=77128]
I got a cat 1 medical approx. 2 years ago which then expired about a year ago.

This is not correct. A medical never, ever, ever, expires. You hold a category 1 medical unless/until it is revoked by the Minister (which for practical purposes, never happens) or you surrender it. A particular licence or permit requires a medical to have been renewed within a certain period in order to validate that licence or permit. But even when that period has expired nothing happens to the medical certificate you hold.

You can apply for a PPL if you hold either a category 1 or category 3 medical certificate as long as you are within the validity period for a PPL which is 5 years if you're under 40, and 2 years if you're over 40.

[quote="Big Pistons Forever" post_id=<a href="tel:1268778">1268778</a> time=<a href="tel:1690059555">1690059555</a> user_id=395]
The downside is that your Aviation Document Booklet (ie your pilot license) will be issued with a Cat 3 medical. If you want to pursue a CPL you will have to get your medical upgraded which can take many months to process.

I would just get a medical to renew your Class 1 before sending in the paperwork. You can let it downgrade after you get your medical if you decide to stop at a PPL
[/quote]
Respectfully, this isn't correct, either.

Your ADB will show the category 1 medical that you hold, with the relevant renewal date (of more than a year ago).

A category 1 medical never "becomes" any other category - it always remains a category 1, unless you explicitly write to TC to ask to downgrade it (and there's almost never a reason to do that.) Whether on any given day it validates any particular licence or permit depends on that day's date, the date of the last examination (that date being printed in the ADB or written in by the CAME at renewal) and the type of licence or permit.

[quote=mtl183181 post_id=<a href="tel:1268781">1268781</a> time=<a href="tel:1690060945">1690060945</a> user_id=77128]
Do you happen to know how the renewal would work exactly? I know that if you have you aviation document booklet already, you just need to get it stamped by the CAME to renew the medical, however I obviously don't have a booklet yet, so would the CAME just stamp my medical certificate itself?
[/quote]
Yes. You will see the renewal spaces on the reverse of the certificate, if you take the trouble to look.
[/quote]

Your initial ADB will show the medical privileges you have on issue. In this case it will be Cat 3, so that is what the sticker photo in the medical section of the ADB will show.

[photofly]

Your initial ADB will show the medical privileges you have on issue. In this case it will be Cat 3, so that is what the sticker photo in the medical section of the ADB will show.

The initial ADB will show the medical certificate the applicant has on issue. Which is a Category 1.

There is no such thing as "cat 3 privileges" - only a category 3 medical, and the OP doesn't have a category 3 medical, they have a category 1 medical. Depending on their age they may be within or without the period of validity for a PPL. If they're inside that period they can apply for the PPL. If not, they'll need a renewal first. In no case do they get re-issued or downgraded to a different category of medical to the one they hold.



You may be confusing this situation with the exercise of "PPL privileges" by a CPL holder (who must hold a category 1 medical) during the last period of validity of a Category 3 medical (i.e. years 2-5 since renewal for an under 40). That is not the case here.

(Ten years ago there was also a superficially similar issue with ATPL holders who were automatically downgraded to CPL/IR when they conducted a PPC in a single-engine aircraft like a PC12, but I imagine TC has fixed that now.)



In this case, the regulations are very clear: a PPL is validated by a Category 1 medical for exactly the same period as it is by a Category 3 medical. You can obtain and fly on a PPL renewing your category 1 medical every 5 years (2 if over 40) forever, if you wish. Later - even decades later - you can get a CPL without another initial medical examination. (This used to be a good idea, when Category 1 medicals took fewer than 18 months for initial issue.)




Another example where this crops up (I have seen this) is when an ADB takes so long to process that the former student's medical is entirely outside the period of validity by the time the ADB is issued. The student (over 40) was sent an ADB with a category 3 medical that showed an examination 27 months prior. Although the student had no piloting privileges at all at the time of issue, his ADB still showed the medical he held.

It also happens to people returning to flying after a very long break who renew their ADB, or obtain their first one. The medical certificate section will show their historic medical certificate with an examination date years - sometimes decades - in the past.

[Big Pistons Forever]

I am going by what I was told by the licensing folks when I asked the same question. Whether it is the right or wrong approach as to what class of of Medical will be in the initial ADB issue is moot, this is the TC policy, or at least it was 2 years ago.

As someone said the best course of action is to ask TC directly what they will do specifically for the OP's situation.

[photofly]

Well, I just emailed TC licencing in my region and I got a reply (yes, I know, and on a Sunday too). It is as I said:

Hello - yes we don’t downgrade a medical at licence time - it can only be done when the student goes for a medical.

The OP is safe to apply for the PPL.