TUI style
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Re: TUI style
Can any pilots currently on property speak to this?
I was thinking about applying at Sunwing to take advantage of the Euro deployments, but now that's gone. Has anything been released about what the Oz deployments would be like? Senior? Junior? Pay supplements etc.
I was thinking about applying at Sunwing to take advantage of the Euro deployments, but now that's gone. Has anything been released about what the Oz deployments would be like? Senior? Junior? Pay supplements etc.
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Re: TUI style
There's very little known right now. First time around we're looking at 2 planes, probably 7 crew per plane. There will be a bid, hard to say who's in for it who's not. I would think it would be a mix of seniority, maybe a little heavier on the junior side of the scale.throwawaycorporate wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:18 am Can any pilots currently on property speak to this?
I was thinking about applying at Sunwing to take advantage of the Euro deployments, but now that's gone. Has anything been released about what the Oz deployments would be like? Senior? Junior? Pay supplements etc.
That's really all that is known right this instance, but once the lou is out we'll know more.
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Re: TUI style
I'd love to know! It could be the next hidden gem of Canadian aviation. Canadian summers and Australian summers. Best of both worlds. + I used to live near the Gold Coast and it is truly a stunning part of the world.the_new_guy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:44 pm That's really all that is known right this instance, but once the lou is out we'll know more.
Re: TUI style
Seriously, you know they will use this to not promote enough Captains to staff the operation, they will just have enough for the slow season and beef up your operations with wet lease for the bust times.the_new_guy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:44 pmThere's very little known right now. First time around we're looking at 2 planes, probably 7 crew per plane. There will be a bid, hard to say who's in for it who's not. I would think it would be a mix of seniority, maybe a little heavier on the junior side of the scale.throwawaycorporate wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:18 am Can any pilots currently on property speak to this?
I was thinking about applying at Sunwing to take advantage of the Euro deployments, but now that's gone. Has anything been released about what the Oz deployments would be like? Senior? Junior? Pay supplements etc.
That's really all that is known right this instance, but once the lou is out we'll know more.
This is not good for the pilots, what bullshit excuse are you using? They won’t lay you off, they’ll run fat for the off season but pilots are apparently too fucking stupid to see this for what it is, another end run around having to be staffed properly year round.
This practice has been fought against and you guys are giving them a friggen LOU, grow a pair ffs
Re: TUI style
It keeps the pilots busy throughout the year. Winter is a slow season. What a great opportunity to deploy to the southern hemisphere during our winter and fly during Australia peak season. It doesn't reduce upgrade opportunities. It actually gives them work during some of the slower winter months outside of Christmas. Who wouldn't want to live in Australia on the companies dime.cdnavater wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 8:07 pmSeriously, you know they will use this to not promote enough Captains to staff the operation, they will just have enough for the slow season and beef up your operations with wet lease for the bust times.the_new_guy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:44 pmThere's very little known right now. First time around we're looking at 2 planes, probably 7 crew per plane. There will be a bid, hard to say who's in for it who's not. I would think it would be a mix of seniority, maybe a little heavier on the junior side of the scale.throwawaycorporate wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:18 am Can any pilots currently on property speak to this?
I was thinking about applying at Sunwing to take advantage of the Euro deployments, but now that's gone. Has anything been released about what the Oz deployments would be like? Senior? Junior? Pay supplements etc.
That's really all that is known right this instance, but once the lou is out we'll know more.
This is not good for the pilots, what bullshit excuse are you using? They won’t lay you off, they’ll run fat for the off season but pilots are apparently too fucking stupid to see this for what it is, another end run around having to be staffed properly year round.
This practice has been fought against and you guys are giving them a friggen LOU, grow a pair ffs
Re: TUI style
You don’t get it, airlines obviously have highs and low periods, they staff for the high period and carry the staff for the low period. If they bring in wet leases, they don’t need to increase their Captain positions for the high period, they keep enough to cover the low and use the Australian crews to offset the busier times. The same is happening there, with your crew during the off peak, you are preventing them from upgrading and hiring enough to cover the busier times.MaxAuto wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 3:20 amIt keeps the pilots busy throughout the year. Winter is a slow season. What a great opportunity to deploy to the southern hemisphere during our winter and fly during Australia peak season. It doesn't reduce upgrade opportunities. It actually gives them work during some of the slower winter months outside of Christmas. Who wouldn't want to live in Australia on the companies dime.cdnavater wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 8:07 pmSeriously, you know they will use this to not promote enough Captains to staff the operation, they will just have enough for the slow season and beef up your operations with wet lease for the bust times.the_new_guy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:44 pm
There's very little known right now. First time around we're looking at 2 planes, probably 7 crew per plane. There will be a bid, hard to say who's in for it who's not. I would think it would be a mix of seniority, maybe a little heavier on the junior side of the scale.
That's really all that is known right this instance, but once the lou is out we'll know more.
This is not good for the pilots, what bullshit excuse are you using? They won’t lay you off, they’ll run fat for the off season but pilots are apparently too fucking stupid to see this for what it is, another end run around having to be staffed properly year round.
This practice has been fought against and you guys are giving them a friggen LOU, grow a pair ffs
This only benefits the company as they aren’t over staffed when it’s slow!
Every other airline in Canada tries to staff for the busy times and reduced block for the slower times but they don’t lay off or artificially staff when it’s busy, that’s what shyster companies do!
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Re: TUI style
I miss the part where this is my idea, my "bullshit excuse".cdnavater wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 8:07 pmSeriously, you know they will use this to not promote enough Captains to staff the operation, they will just have enough for the slow season and beef up your operations with wet lease for the bust times.the_new_guy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:44 pmThere's very little known right now. First time around we're looking at 2 planes, probably 7 crew per plane. There will be a bid, hard to say who's in for it who's not. I would think it would be a mix of seniority, maybe a little heavier on the junior side of the scale.throwawaycorporate wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:18 am Can any pilots currently on property speak to this?
I was thinking about applying at Sunwing to take advantage of the Euro deployments, but now that's gone. Has anything been released about what the Oz deployments would be like? Senior? Junior? Pay supplements etc.
That's really all that is known right this instance, but once the lou is out we'll know more.
This is not good for the pilots, what bullshit excuse are you using? They won’t lay you off, they’ll run fat for the off season but pilots are apparently too fucking stupid to see this for what it is, another end run around having to be staffed properly year round.
This practice has been fought against and you guys are giving them a friggen LOU, grow a pair ffs
I am providing untainted info, that's all. If that comment was directed at me, look up my posts, let me know how biased I seem to be.
Re: TUI style
I quoted MaxAuto for his “it keeps pilots busy throughout the year” bullshit. The company won’t layoff if they need you in 3 months, to difficult to manage, guys will not come back unless there is nothing else out there. So, this is completely for the company and does nothing for the profession.the_new_guy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:14 amI miss the part where this is my idea, my "bullshit excuse".cdnavater wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 8:07 pmSeriously, you know they will use this to not promote enough Captains to staff the operation, they will just have enough for the slow season and beef up your operations with wet lease for the bust times.the_new_guy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:44 pm
There's very little known right now. First time around we're looking at 2 planes, probably 7 crew per plane. There will be a bid, hard to say who's in for it who's not. I would think it would be a mix of seniority, maybe a little heavier on the junior side of the scale.
That's really all that is known right this instance, but once the lou is out we'll know more.
This is not good for the pilots, what bullshit excuse are you using? They won’t lay you off, they’ll run fat for the off season but pilots are apparently too fucking stupid to see this for what it is, another end run around having to be staffed properly year round.
This practice has been fought against and you guys are giving them a friggen LOU, grow a pair ffs
I am providing untainted info, that's all. If that comment was directed at me, look up my posts, let me know how biased I seem to be.
There is a reason this practice was so discussed at “SCUMWING” remember them?
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Re: TUI style
The issue you refer to was when Canadian pilots were laid off while at the same time bringing in TFW's to crew the aircraft. That practice ended during my time there, and once that was resolved, the deployments were one of the best selling features of working at that company. It's a reason that many pilots chose to stay at Sunwing when there were opportunities to move to WJ or AC, myself included. Now that deployments are (supposedly) ending, I'm sure more than a few pilots are disappointed that the "TUI Style" program is coming to an end.
If Flair uses the same model Sunwing did, that could be a big draw for pilots who like the deployment lifestyle.
Re: TUI style
No, you are confusing in house pilots with other airline pilots whose companies don’t use wet leases as a means to have less pilots during the off season.DHC-1 Jockey wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:13 amThe issue you refer to was when Canadian pilots were laid off while at the same time bringing in TFW's to crew the aircraft. That practice ended during my time there, and once that was resolved, the deployments were one of the best selling features of working at that company. It's a reason that many pilots chose to stay at Sunwing when there were opportunities to move to WJ or AC, myself included. Now that deployments are (supposedly) ending, I'm sure more than a few pilots are disappointed that the "TUI Style" program is coming to an end.
If Flair uses the same model Sunwing did, that could be a big draw for pilots who like the deployment lifestyle.
Every other company, it was referred to as SCUMWING, it was not reciprocal(even) until pressure was put on to make it one for one.
Flair is not reinventing the wheel here, they are using a practice that has been used to reduce the costs associated with having to be properly staffed year round, pilots should not be supporting this. There will be less Captain spots required, especially if it’s not completely reciprocal.
It also signals Flair is not doing as well as they thought they would be if they are looking for ways to hire less pilots, it appears to me your growth phase is coming to an end, at least for now
Re: TUI style
No, you are confusing in house pilots with other airline pilots whose companies don’t use wet leases as a means to have less pilots during the off season.DHC-1 Jockey wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:13 amThe issue you refer to was when Canadian pilots were laid off while at the same time bringing in TFW's to crew the aircraft. That practice ended during my time there, and once that was resolved, the deployments were one of the best selling features of working at that company. It's a reason that many pilots chose to stay at Sunwing when there were opportunities to move to WJ or AC, myself included. Now that deployments are (supposedly) ending, I'm sure more than a few pilots are disappointed that the "TUI Style" program is coming to an end.
If Flair uses the same model Sunwing did, that could be a big draw for pilots who like the deployment lifestyle.
Every other company, it was referred to as SCUMWING, it was not reciprocal(even) until pressure was put on to make it one for one.
Flair is not reinventing the wheel here, they are using a practice that has been used to reduce the costs associated with having to be properly staffed year round, pilots should not be supporting this. There will be less Captain spots required, especially if it’s not completely reciprocal.
It also signals Flair is not doing as well as they thought they would be if they are looking for ways to hire less pilots, it appears to me your growth phase is coming to an end, at least for now
Re: TUI style
The federal govt denied Sunwing's last attempt at TFW's.
ALPA was very opposed to the practice as well.
How is this suddenly a good thing?
First it was recruiting in Johannesburg, now this....what's next??
ALPA was very opposed to the practice as well.
How is this suddenly a good thing?
First it was recruiting in Johannesburg, now this....what's next??
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Re: TUI style
Have you worked for Sunwing, or are you just throwing pot-shots from the peanut gallery? As I said, when the TFW program issue was resolved and the wet-leases became one-for-one, I don't know of any pilot at Sunwing that had an issue with the way the "TUI Style" arrangement was set up. In fact, most looked forward to the deployments and actually became unhappy when it was announced that deployments could end with the WJ acquisition/merger. The worst grumblings I heard during the program was that the TUI pilots usually got YOW as a winter base, and there was more than one SWG pilot who would have preferred to have YOW over YWG.cdnavater wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 7:21 amNo, you are confusing in house pilots with other airline pilots whose companies don’t use wet leases as a means to have less pilots during the off season.DHC-1 Jockey wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:13 amThe issue you refer to was when Canadian pilots were laid off while at the same time bringing in TFW's to crew the aircraft. That practice ended during my time there, and once that was resolved, the deployments were one of the best selling features of working at that company. It's a reason that many pilots chose to stay at Sunwing when there were opportunities to move to WJ or AC, myself included. Now that deployments are (supposedly) ending, I'm sure more than a few pilots are disappointed that the "TUI Style" program is coming to an end.
If Flair uses the same model Sunwing did, that could be a big draw for pilots who like the deployment lifestyle.
Every other company, it was referred to as SCUMWING, it was not reciprocal(even) until pressure was put on to make it one for one.
Flair is not reinventing the wheel here, they are using a practice that has been used to reduce the costs associated with having to be properly staffed year round, pilots should not be supporting this. There will be less Captain spots required, especially if it’s not completely reciprocal.
It also signals Flair is not doing as well as they thought they would be if they are looking for ways to hire less pilots, it appears to me your growth phase is coming to an end, at least for now
If it worked well for the very pilots who were directly affected, who are you to say Flair doing the same is a bad thing for pilots?
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Re: TUI style
I'm undecided on the whole thing. I can see where it could really benefit both companies, but I can also see where it could stifle growth here. Bonza is a tiny company, and likely won't have more than a small handful of pilots who could be deployed to Canada next spring/ summer. But if they grow and the program is successful we will need to have a clear language in our CBA to protect our domestic pilots and their career progression. This summer we leased 2 tails from them, maybe it's just metal, no people again next year. At this point, it's just a concept, I'll reserve judgement until I see the fine print. Another option, if our business is indeed that cyclic, would be like Transat used to do, with seasonal upgrades. Who knows, if we lose enough people to Porter's new 20 k pay raise, we may have to run more groundschools to cover deployments and domestic flying? In that case, deployments will just be a cool benefit for whoever's interested. There's also always the risk of forced deployments if interest isn't as high as conceptualized.
Re: TUI style
It's a well known fact that people who don't work for a company (swg), know a lot more on the company that the one who do work for it.
In Avcanada world anyway !
In Avcanada world anyway !
Re: TUI style
That was a pipedream, what ever happened to the recruiting in Johannesburg?
Re: TUI style
I think the difference here is that pilots who chose SWG, chose for a very specific reason. That reason was deployments. Pilots at a Flair didn't choose Flair for that reason. To most it is a very unfamiliar concept considering they mostly do day trips which was the selling point for many.
Re: TUI style
This is a fairly simple concept. 2 a/c and crew go to OZ for months during their busy season and the same occurs in reverse. It actually allows both airlines to carry slightly more aircraft (and therefore crew) then they would otherwise as the business would not permit them to carry that level of service over 12 months. In other words, with a recipricol agreement where the two airlines essentially 'share' two aircraft they can shift those aircraft for 4 months each year.
In this situation each airline has more pilots than they would otherwise (so Cdnaviator - more captains by logic) all while offering an excellent opportunity to those crew interested to experience and work in another part of the world.
In this situation each airline has more pilots than they would otherwise (so Cdnaviator - more captains by logic) all while offering an excellent opportunity to those crew interested to experience and work in another part of the world.