Air Canada vs Air Transat

[Yogi21]

Can someone go over the pros and cons. I have offers from both.

[Babar350]

You didn't do your own due diligence and check all of this before?

You can go to AC, no worries. esti.

[Gregor]

From a financial standpoint AC is an absolute and utter no-brainer at any age. 1 year to 200k+ NB captain. Pension contibutions are a lot better at AC, and deductions are much lower so take-home is higher. The only advantage at Transat is that you'll never do 4 leg a day NB flying, you work maybe 2 days less a month, but you'll be a low-paid FO for 6-7 years, then you'll be a capt that gets paid less than AC, followed by less pension. So it's a question of far, far, far more lifetime money vs a slightly lighter workload.

[FL320]

From a financial standpoint AC is an absolute and utter no-brainer at any age. 1 year to 200k+ NB captain. Pension contibutions are a lot better at AC, and deductions are much lower so take-home is higher. The only advantage at Transat is that you'll never do 4 leg a day NB flying, you work maybe 2 days less a month, but you'll be a low-paid FO for 6-7 years, then you'll be a capt that gets paid less than AC, followed by less pension. So it's a question of far, far, far more lifetime money vs a slightly lighter workload.

From a financial standpoint AC is an absolute and utter no-brainer at any age

No thanks - that’s what I said to the AC recruiter when she contacted me twice: I make more than 300k$ at Transat working max 14 days per month… so no it’s not a no brainer at any age. One of my best friend resigned from AC; one other 8 years seniority is so pissed that he is counting the days up to retirement …far from being the best employer around apparently.
You really have to be broke or miserable to chose that employer just for long term money.

[braaap Braap]

I think you should go to Air Canada.

I think you should also do some of your own research rather than ask others to spoon feed you. This site (and others) are chalk full of information for you to pick through.

[canadian_aviator_4]

I think you should go to Air Canada.

I think you should also do some of your own research rather than ask others to spoon feed you. This site (and others) are chalk full of information for you to pick through.

[Gregor]

From a financial standpoint AC is an absolute

No thanks - that’s what I said to the AC recruiter when she contacted me twice: I make more than 300k$ at Transat working max 14 days per month… so no it’s not a no brainer at any age. One of my best friend resigned from AC; one other 8 years seniority is so pissed that he is counting the days up to retirement …far from being the best employer around apparently.
You really have to be broke or miserable to chose that employer just for long term money.

You're obviously a top scale capt with overtime. You'd be crazy to leave now, but it takes 15-20 years to get to your pay level at Transat, while you would be at the same as 10-15 years at Transat after 1 year at AC. ONE! Then by the time you're 15-20 years in at AC, where you are now at Transat, not only would you have you have made at least 3x more cumulative money, (about 1.5 million more) you'd be taking home probably 5-10k more a month today. Not to mention no deductions like disability. Then when you retire, you'd be making 150-200k in pension at AC vs about 100k at AT from RRSP matching.
Huge, huge financial differences for a, say, 30 year old looking at both from year 0.

These are just facts, no conjecture. Your schedule is better from what I've seen, but is it worth that many literally millions of dollars in your pocket? Might be for some. Might not for others. I also know you can get reserve at Transat even at the top seniority. Why is that?
Someone told me recently a capt at AT left for AC and tried to go back to AT. No idea when. Is that true?

[TFTMB heavy]

15 years at AT, captain within 4 years. I have friends at AC with about the same seniority, they work more and make less.

Sure the pay scales at AC are higher but unless we go into another recession and loads drastically drop TS will have to pay AC wages to hire enough pilots for the 60 aircraft fleet planned. It’s where most of the resignations are heading, no brainer that will be the target wages.

Just my 2 cents.

[DanWEC]

With Porter's E2 rates meeting and in some cases beating TS's wide body rates, I certainly hope so. 2 years is a long time to wait however.

Financially though, I agree, year 1-retirement you'll make a lot more at AC, if you take the NB upgrade after 1 year, that's a lot of years at a quicker 200k instead of 60k. 4-5 at least. But once that 5 year upgrade finally happens at TS you'll be making similar money and will have always had a better sked. Personally, I love my day-to-day. I don't know anyone at AC that can state the same unequivocally.
It takes a long, long, long time to get a good, senior WB sked at AC.... Making 100k more though. That's where AC really pulls ahead- after 20 years it's some serious money, if you have the age to get there and willing to accept junior skeds at 60.

The argument between AC and TS always comes down to lifestyle/culture/schedule vs money.

[thepoors]

From a financial standpoint AC is an absolute and utter no-brainer at any age. 1 year to 200k+ NB captain. Pension contibutions are a lot better at AC, and deductions are much lower so take-home is higher. The only advantage at Transat is that you'll never do 4 leg a day NB flying, you work maybe 2 days less a month, but you'll be a low-paid FO for 6-7 years, then you'll be a capt that gets paid less than AC, followed by less pension. So it's a question of far, far, far more lifetime money vs a slightly lighter workload.

Since when are upgrades at AC 1 year? Is that what you're claiming?

[Cavalier44]

From a financial standpoint AC is an absolute and utter no-brainer at any age. 1 year to 200k+ NB captain. Pension contibutions are a lot better at AC, and deductions are much lower so take-home is higher. The only advantage at Transat is that you'll never do 4 leg a day NB flying, you work maybe 2 days less a month, but you'll be a low-paid FO for 6-7 years, then you'll be a capt that gets paid less than AC, followed by less pension. So it's a question of far, far, far more lifetime money vs a slightly lighter workload.

Since when are upgrades at AC 1 year? Is that what you're claiming?

The most junior YYZ A220 Captain position awarded on the last bid had a date of hire of July 2022 if I recall correctly - there are definitely upgrades within one year at AC as long as you're content with being based out of YYZ. Upgrades at YUL and YVR are going slightly more senior, but still achievable with 1.5 - 2 years of seniority at this point.

[Latitude]

As an ex Transat guy there is no doubt the money is better at AC, both salary and pension wise. You also get better job security and flexibility (can bid NB FO, WB FO, NB CA, WB CA, etc.) at any time in your career, which is a big deal. You don't necessarily want to do the Caribbean every winter and Europe every summer.... Some neat stuff like J class deadheads, live WX on the iPad in flight, better travel benefits (bigger network so more destinations, and since you're on your own airline you get higher priority which is always nice when travelling with family..,etc.)

Still had many great layovers at TS (72hrs ATH, 72h LIS, 48h AGP, etc.) flying modern aircraft with good people that are friends now.

There's stuff to improve in the AC CA, and I can understand pilots hating their lives if they are stuck on a NB doing crappy destinations 16 days a month vs the new hire at Transat going to Lisbon... but to them I say ... bid WB RP and you'll get Transat pilot lifestyle but at AC as a very junior pilot

I don't regret my time at TS and I truly believe they are the best airline to fly for in Canada along with AC.

[accountant]

Love how pilots complain about working 16 days a month when the average person works 22.

Suck it up buttercups.

[SPR]

Love how pilots complain about working 16 days a month when the average person works 22.

Suck it up buttercups.

Does the average person work 13-hour days? In those 22 days they work 176 hours, whereas the pilot who works 16 13-hour days works 208.

[Dash.Trash]

Love how pilots complain about working 16 days a month when the average person works 22.

Suck it up buttercups.

Does the average person work 13-hour days? In those 22 days they work 176 hours, whereas the pilot who works 16 13-hour days works 208.

Or how about does the average person spend 22 days sleeping in hotels away from their families?

How about rotational workers working 14 days on, 14 off. I suppose they should suck it up too eh?

Once again, accountant demonstrating his pure stupidity and ignorance.

[DanWEC]

Don't give this guy any attention.
It takes a really, really messed up person to troll internet forums just for negative reactions. I have genuine concerns for the animals around him, these behaviors follow the same patterns. Honestly, please talk to someone. There's no shame in it.

[Ash Ketchum]

From a financial standpoint AC is an absolute and utter no-brainer at any age. 1 year to 200k+ NB captain. Pension contibutions are a lot better at AC, and deductions are much lower so take-home is higher. The only advantage at Transat is that you'll never do 4 leg a day NB flying, you work maybe 2 days less a month, but you'll be a low-paid FO for 6-7 years, then you'll be a capt that gets paid less than AC, followed by less pension. So it's a question of far, far, far more lifetime money vs a slightly lighter workload.

Since when are upgrades at AC 1 year? Is that what you're claiming?

The most junior YYZ A220 Captain position awarded on the last bid had a date of hire of July 2022 if I recall correctly - there are definitely upgrades within one year at AC as long as you're content with being based out of YYZ. Upgrades at YUL and YVR are going slightly more senior, but still achievable with 1.5 - 2 years of seniority at this point.

Upgrades are being awarded about a year out currently however it takes up to a year to actually get trained after the award and start making that 200K. So roughly a 2 year timeline at the moment. Anyone joining now would likely wait longer as there was a ton of hiring which happened over the past year.

[yowflyer23]

I assume 1-2 year upgrades are only a short term reality due to the hiring boom at AC, right? When things are slower, which option would you pick if you had a choice (AC vs TS)?

[Apestogetherstrong]

I assume 1-2 year upgrades are only a short term reality due to the hiring boom at AC, right? When things are slower, which option would you pick if you had a choice (AC vs TS)?

AC without any doubt. AC does not have a $30k bond. AT does. Do the math. If AT was better, why do they feel the need to hold pilots hostage through a bond.

[Hangry]

This has to be a troll. I can’t imagine TS has a bond. If it’s true and it’s still a decision for someone then definitely go TS all the way!

[Core]

Don't forget the 20% higher take-home at AC. At Transat it seems they have a brutal amount of deductions.

From where I sit as an outsider to the airline world but no stranger to corporations, I believe AC will maintain the crown as the highest compensated position, but also regain the wide margin.
There's never been another time in history where Transat et al has had overall compensation anywhere near AC, and the ONLY reason they've come close to catching up recently is because AC has been handcuffed for so long with such a horrible contract while Transat has doled out maybe 2 or 3 large payscale changes.

Once this contract gets settled under new blood and ALPA, Transat will once again be left far behind and won't be catching up. It's just economics of scale. Their entire last posted profit would only cover a 30% increase of flight deck payroll and I highly doubt the company would be plowing that entire nut into the cockpit. It would require 50%-60% more to cover the expected AC increase plus the take-home difference. The numbers just aren't there, and if they want to expand, how are they going to get the pilots?

[apetogetherstrong]

This has to be a troll. I can’t imagine TS has a bond. If it’s true and it’s still a decision for someone then definitely go TS all the way!

It's true. I was once offered a job there, but they wanted me to sign a bond. I just wanted to get the type rating to increase my chances to go to

AC. Not to be stuck there for a few years! It's extremely unfair companies prevent employees rights to come and go as they please. Plus there is

a lot if shills at AT. AC is where it's at, it's even worth it for the flat pay that pays less than any other carrier.

[Canadaflyer46]

An airline of that size with a bond is an absolute embarrassment to the industry. That must means things are truly awful there if someone has to be bonded onto an A330 or else they’re leaving. Even WJ/Encore doesn’t bond and they’ve always been a stepping stone to AC.

[canadian_aviator_4]

Doesn’t Air Canada have a pseudo bond, where the PPC is a restricted type rating with Air Canada and cannot be transferred to another airline?

[cdnavater]

Doesn’t Air Canada have a pseudo bond, where the PPC is a restricted type rating with Air Canada and cannot be transferred to another airline?

Never heard of that but even if true this is not a bond, a bond is money out of pocket to cover the cost associated with training.
AC low pay is in fact closer to a bond in effect where you cover the training cost with low first year pay, except they stretch it over four years just to make sure you really want to be there(tongue in cheek)
The answer to the question, it has been discussed but AT was barely making money in the boom years, now significant debt and things likely slowing down, there is risk associated with this. The Porter feed agreement could definitely help in that but again Porter is still an experiment and whether they can fill 50 never mind 75 or 100 fins is up for debate. Also, there is a rumour floating around the Porter flight ops is telling their pilots they are eyeing their own widebody fleet(carrot dangled) which would make an agreement with AT moot and no longer needed.