Pros and Cons btw FO and RP?

[sierraaviator]

Question as the title says, and how the new contract may affect RP position. If a friend of mine wants to be in 777 long term, should they start in NB FO or WB RP? How’s the Sched like in NB FO and WB RP
Thanks for your inputs

[Curiousflyer]

Likely better off WB RP, directly on the 777 if possible. Stay as an RP for the duration of flat pay then bid right seat 777 FO. Junior FO on the 777 is one of the better deals currently, as they can bid augment FO on 4 pilot pairings (good productivity) and then bid operating FO to less desirable destinations to find a decent schedule. 777 pays quite a bit more than the 787 or 330.

[WF9F]

Hopefully there will be NO RP position going forward, enough with the cheap labour for AC. Should be be all FOs paying FO wages for WB right seat.

[FL030]

Go straight to WB FO from the start. You shouldn't do RP. Keep flying.

[tupues]

Adding to this, do you start again at the bottom of seniority for FO ie will you be stuck on reserve again once you “upgrade„ from RP to FO irrespective of the time spent as RP?

[Tbayer2021]

Adding to this, do you start again at the bottom of seniority for FO ie will you be stuck on reserve again once you “upgrade„ from RP to FO irrespective of the time spent as RP?

No. It's a master seniority list that is determined by your date of hire. When you move types and/or seats, you slot into the schedule right behind the guy most senior to you. Doesn't matter if you go from RP777 to left seat A220.

[Blueontop]

Is the initial training for an RP and an FO the same PPC? If one is an RP and decides later on to go FO, what is the process, is it more training, does one have to wait until an FO spot opens up? Basically how easy is it to transfer from RP to FO?

Also how is one’s flying time logged, I assume you log it only when you’re actually at the controls? I suppose the time logged is worth less then a FO flying time?

[CaptDukeNukem]

Is the initial training for an RP and an FO the same PPC? If one is an RP and decides later on to go FO, what is the process, is it more training, does one have to wait until an FO spot opens up? Basically how easy is it to transfer from RP to FO?

Also how is one’s flying time logged, I assume you log it only when you’re actually at the controls? I suppose the time logged is worth less then a FO flying time?

Log it all. Why not. Hell…. Log the DHs too.

[Tbayer2021]

Is the initial training for an RP and an FO the same PPC? If one is an RP and decides later on to go FO, what is the process, is it more training, does one have to wait until an FO spot opens up? Basically how easy is it to transfer from RP to FO?

Also how is one’s flying time logged, I assume you log it only when you’re actually at the controls? I suppose the time logged is worth less then a FO flying time?

You'll probably find that you stop caring about logging time after you make it to such position.

[M.Caribou]

RP position is not guaranteed J on a deadhead, which I'd imagine would be quite aggravating when you're getting sent over to Asia on a 12+hr flight.

[tupues]

Adding to this, do you start again at the bottom of seniority for FO ie will you be stuck on reserve again once you “upgrade„ from RP to FO irrespective of the time spent as RP?

No. It's a master seniority list that is determined by your date of hire. When you move types and/or seats, you slot into the schedule right behind the guy most senior to you. Doesn't matter if you go from RP777 to left seat A220.

Ok so how come that when looking at block awards you see senior guys ending up with reserve and people junior to them with blocks?
I’ve been trying to get my head around that….

[Tbayer2021]

Adding to this, do you start again at the bottom of seniority for FO ie will you be stuck on reserve again once you “upgrade„ from RP to FO irrespective of the time spent as RP?

No. It's a master seniority list that is determined by your date of hire. When you move types and/or seats, you slot into the schedule right behind the guy most senior to you. Doesn't matter if you go from RP777 to left seat A220.

Ok so how come that when looking at block awards you see senior guys ending up with reserve and people junior to them with blocks?
I’ve been trying to get my head around that….

Lots of pilots intentionally bid for reserve and then pass on as much flying as they can. The more senior you are the more you can pass down and potentially not fly for long periods of time without taking any time off. Really popular if you've got some house project that you have to bang off or want to spend more time at the cottage.

[Blueontop]

RP position is not guaranteed J on a deadhead, which I'd imagine would be quite aggravating when you're getting sent over to Asia on a 12+hr flight.

FO deadhead is then?

P.S. is the initial training the same PPC? TIA

[Chateau]

RPs:

Pros:
- faster improvement in seniority
- so better schedule quicker
- same crap pay anyways
- get to disappear out of chaos of having the flight attendants bugging the crew as you hide in the bunk making beds

Cons:
- you don't get to post cool photos of your 777 taking off "hand flying" doing 20 degree banked turns following the flight director

WB FO:

Pros:
- get to tell your mom how you greased on your 787
- get to pick your break
- better for your resume to leave

Cons:
- you will be stuck in a corner on any 4 man crew when you augment and are basically a RP with a worst schedule
- you will be on reserve for years being the bum boy to a huge seniority list watching other people smoke bomb in front of you

[tupues]

No. It's a master seniority list that is determined by your date of hire. When you move types and/or seats, you slot into the schedule right behind the guy most senior to you. Doesn't matter if you go from RP777 to left seat A220.

Ok so how come that when looking at block awards you see senior guys ending up with reserve and people junior to them with blocks?
I’ve been trying to get my head around that….

Lots of pilots intentionally bid for reserve and then pass on as much flying as they can. The more senior you are the more you can pass down and potentially not fly for long periods of time without taking any time off. Really popular if you've got some house project that you have to bang off or want to spend more time at the cottage.

Is that still a thing? I thought they got rid of that by introducing „best fit“

[Hysteria]

Could you theoretically go from RP to NB CA?

[BTD]

Could you theoretically go from RP to NB CA?

Yes. Some have.

I’d suggest some time spent in the right seat though, unless one has jet time elsewhere.

[Hysteria]

Could you theoretically go from RP to NB CA?

Yes. Some have.

I’d suggest some time spent in the right seat though, unless one has jet time elsewhere.

Understood - I imagine right seat NB? how many years to hold right seat 87 77 or 330?

[NotDirty!]

Could you theoretically go from RP to NB CA?

Yes. Some have.

I’d suggest some time spent in the right seat though, unless one has jet time elsewhere.

Understood - I imagine right seat NB? how many years to hold right seat 87 77 or 330?

0 years! Those positions have gone to new hires recently!

[WillC]

RPs don’t do single day turns, pairings are more productive and you get more perdiems

When I was thinking what to bid during my PIT course I was surprised to find in the pairing package day turns on the 777, like a YVR turn with the first leg as a DH from YYZ, seat in YVR and operate back to YYZ, with $0 perdiems!

Also, some transatlantic flights that leave mid afternoon will be operated by captain and FO only, so no rest. If you are a RP you know you will be able to have a break.

[BTD]

Could you theoretically go from RP to NB CA?

Yes. Some have.

I’d suggest some time spent in the right seat though, unless one has jet time elsewhere.

Understood - I imagine right seat NB? how many years to hold right seat 87 77 or 330?

Narrowbody or wide body FO doesn’t matter. I’ve done line indoc on 3 different fleets here. It is more about attitude and then the experience. It’s always easier to go from right to left seat on the same type but can be done without trouble. Jet time, time at the company, and time in the right seat of any company aircraft will make the transition to the left seat smoother.

[Latitude]

When you start and are BOTL, WB RP is better than any WB or NB FO position, unless you like bad pairings and destinations (NB FO), reserve for years (WB FO), unproductive flying (both NB/WB FO). But, as an FO you get to fly a plane for 2 minutes before you turn on the auto pilot... and don't worry, as a very junior WB FO you're going to be the augment FO too so basically doing the RP job with worse schedule, for the same pay.

Training for RP & FO is basically the same. RPs skip 1 sim session only, that's it.

I say this but some pilots do not enjoy long haul so... I guess it depends what you like

[sierraaviator]

When you start and are BOTL, WB RP is better than any WB or NB FO position, unless you like bad pairings and destinations (NB FO), reserve for years (WB FO), unproductive flying (both NB/WB FO). But, as an FO you get to fly a plane for 2 minutes before you turn on the auto pilot... and don't worry, as a very junior WB FO you're going to be the augment FO too so basically doing the RP job with worse schedule, for the same pay.

Training for RP & FO is basically the same. RPs skip 1 sim session only, that's it.

I say this but some pilots do not enjoy long haul so... I guess it depends what you like

Latitude! Thanks for the reply, and a bold one at it!
Could you elaborate on why NB FO experience may be undesirable? Why do you think the schedule is bad and unproductive?
I heard many a times that RP position is undesirable. But your comment tells otherwise.
seeing these comments and not having PIC experience on 705, I was considering NB FO preferably 737. How quickly can I upgrade on 37?

[vanislepilot]

If you want the RP route, try for the 777 or 787. 330 is a bit undesirable as you get no bed (Business class seat) And a ton of crossings (5-6 a month)

Personally if you want widebody flying I’d wait til you could do it as an FO

[NotDirty!]

The great thing about aviation is the variety in the type of flying you can do… and what is great for one pilot may be terrible for the next… and vice versa.

Some people like staying within a time zone or two of home, don’t mind doing multiple legs per day, and enjoy landing the aeroplane a few times each pairing.
Others like seeing the more exotic overseas destinations, prefer only one leg per day, don’t mind not being at the controls for takeoff and landing, and keep themselves busy when they’re not at work, so fewer days of work is ideal.
Only you can know what is right for you. There are pros and cons to each position. Which is the best balance for your life is that important question… but the other thing is, our priorities in life may change over time. The nice thing at AC is you have the option of bidding a completely different position! While there are limits, and there may be long delays for training, you are not “stuck” in one type of flying if you get hired here.
In the end, I don’t think there are any BAD jobs here, although you will encounter people here who are bitter after certain experiences, and in the end if you pick number last in your PIT course, you probably won’t get a choice (initially)… but you’ll still have a “good” job. As always, there is room for improvement in our contract, but I hope we are on the right track for that.