Pilots that crash don’t get raises

[CanadaAir]

Lots of union & pay talk going on between pilots

None of us want to be a passenger with crew that enter wrong FMS data while discussing a collective agreement

Focus on the aircraft while on duty

There’s time to talk MEC updates when waiting for crew transport or at the hotels
You can even volunteer with committees when not working

Don’t spoil the potential gains for pilots with incidents that muddle up the pilot reputation

[TeePeeCreeper]

Lots of union & pay talk going on between pilots

None of us want to be a passenger with crew that enter wrong FMS data while discussing a collective agreement

Focus on the aircraft while on duty

There’s time to talk MEC updates when waiting for crew transport or at the hotels
You can even volunteer with committees when not working

Don’t spoil the potential gains for pilots with incidents that muddle up the pilot reputation

Classic Avbanana.ça clique bait.

Many of us pro’s have had an incident/accident. While I am not proud of mine I certainly resent some smuck painting me and others with a wide brush.

CanadaAir, speak for yourself and not on behalf of all of us.


TPC

[fish4life]

Lots of union & pay talk going on between pilots

None of us want to be a passenger with crew that enter wrong FMS data while discussing a collective agreement

Focus on the aircraft while on duty

There’s time to talk MEC updates when waiting for crew transport or at the hotels
You can even volunteer with committees when not working

Don’t spoil the potential gains for pilots with incidents that muddle up the pilot reputation

Classic Avbanana.ça clique bait.

Many of us pro’s have had an incident/accident. While I am not proud of mine I certainly resent some smuck painting me and others with a wide brush.

CanadaAir, speak for yourself and not on behalf of all of us.


TPC

I think what he is trying to say is there can be a lot of distractions and added stresses as we approach contract time / possible strikes and to try keep the talk to non critical times of flight etc.

[TeePeeCreeper]

Lots of union & pay talk going on between pilots

None of us want to be a passenger with crew that enter wrong FMS data while discussing a collective agreement

Focus on the aircraft while on duty

There’s time to talk MEC updates when waiting for crew transport or at the hotels
You can even volunteer with committees when not working

Don’t spoil the potential gains for pilots with incidents that muddle up the pilot reputation

Classic Avbanana.ça clique bait.

Many of us pro’s have had an incident/accident. While I am not proud of mine I certainly resent some smuck painting me and others with a wide brush.

CanadaAir, speak for yourself and not on behalf of all of us.


TPC

I think what he is trying to say is there can be a lot of distractions and added stresses as we approach contract time / possible strikes and to try keep the talk to non critical times of flight etc.

Appreciate that.

Merci mon chum!

[CanadaAir]

Lots of union & pay talk going on between pilots

None of us want to be a passenger with crew that enter wrong FMS data while discussing a collective agreement

Focus on the aircraft while on duty

There’s time to talk MEC updates when waiting for crew transport or at the hotels
You can even volunteer with committees when not working

Don’t spoil the potential gains for pilots with incidents that muddle up the pilot reputation

Classic Avbanana.ça clique bait.

Many of us pro’s have had an incident/accident. While I am not proud of mine I certainly resent some smuck painting me and others with a wide brush.

CanadaAir, speak for yourself and not on behalf of all of us.


TPC

I think what he is trying to say is there can be a lot of distractions and added stresses as we approach contract time / possible strikes and to try keep the talk to non critical times of flight etc.

Correct

At WJ, the MEC was vocal through the negotiations about pilots not getting distracted or over stressed by everything going on while in the aircraft
MEC talked about this frequently reminding the pilot group.

Now for AC, Jazz & others to do similar. It's not easy when there's unknowns, large info packages & only a few days to pick a vote

[altiplano]

Lots of union & pay talk going on between pilots

None of us want to be a passenger with crew that enter wrong FMS data while discussing a collective agreement

Focus on the aircraft while on duty

There’s time to talk MEC updates when waiting for crew transport or at the hotels
You can even volunteer with committees when not working

Don’t spoil the potential gains for pilots with incidents that muddle up the pilot reputation

With due respect, while I appreciate the reminder on stresses at work and managing it accordingly (ie. booking off if unfit), I'll manage my flight as I see fit and have whatever discussion I want with my colleagues at work.

If you think that the acrimony and egregious treatment from the employer is so much that crews can't handle themselves at work, I suggest that you book to fly with another airline with an industry leading pilot contract and compensation.

Seriously you should be more concerned with chronic fatigue brought on by unrealistic planning and scheduling and a crappy contract.

You should be concerned with pilots skipping meals on layover while dealing with financial stresses being brought on by substandard pay and high costs of living in this country, while being shorted their expenses.

You should be more concerned with the stresses undergone by pilots away 16 - 20+ days/month, plus training days, plus possible commuting days, dealing with that stress, the stress of missing their kids lives, going through a divorce because they're so rarely there.

I guarantee all that weighs harder than the cathartic release that is colleagues finding unity on flights decks in a common cause of improvement in wawcon, and improving their families' quality of life. Plus there's too much improvement needed to cover it all on only a hotel shuttle wait.

[digits_]

Isn't the title factually incorrect?

I don't know of any airline contract where crews get raises for not crashing or don't get raises if they do damage an airplane.

[CanadaAir]

Lots of union & pay talk going on between pilots

None of us want to be a passenger with crew that enter wrong FMS data while discussing a collective agreement

Focus on the aircraft while on duty

There’s time to talk MEC updates when waiting for crew transport or at the hotels
You can even volunteer with committees when not working

Don’t spoil the potential gains for pilots with incidents that muddle up the pilot reputation

Seriously you should be more concerned with chronic fatigue brought on by unrealistic planning and scheduling and a crappy contract.

You should be concerned with pilots skipping meals on layover while dealing with financial stresses being brought on by substandard pay and high costs of living in this country, while being shorted their expenses.

You should be more concerned with the stresses undergone by pilots away 16 - 20+ days/month, plus training days, plus possible commuting days, dealing with that stress, the stress of missing their kids lives, going through a divorce because they're so rarely there.

Those are changes required as well.

If pilots are repeatedly unable to eat or lack of sleep, this should be address with management & MEC.
Hold your MEC to task with the improvements you want.

If there're problem legs the airline can modify schedules to allow crew more time to eat or sleep, or divide up an existing schedule with fresh crew. Even small regionals have the ability to board meals if necessary.

FO can talk with captains on how to approach management
Let your captain know if you’re not feeling well or haven’t eaten. They can delay the departure to allow you to get food.

[altiplano]

Lots of union & pay talk going on between pilots

None of us want to be a passenger with crew that enter wrong FMS data while discussing a collective agreement

Focus on the aircraft while on duty

There’s time to talk MEC updates when waiting for crew transport or at the hotels
You can even volunteer with committees when not working

Don’t spoil the potential gains for pilots with incidents that muddle up the pilot reputation

Seriously you should be more concerned with chronic fatigue brought on by unrealistic planning and scheduling and a crappy contract.

You should be concerned with pilots skipping meals on layover while dealing with financial stresses being brought on by substandard pay and high costs of living in this country, while being shorted their expenses.

You should be more concerned with the stresses undergone by pilots away 16 - 20+ days/month, plus training days, plus possible commuting days, dealing with that stress, the stress of missing their kids lives, going through a divorce because they're so rarely there.

Those are changes required as well.

If pilots are repeatedly unable to eat or lack of sleep, this should be address with management & MEC.
Hold your MEC to task with the improvements you want.

If there're problem legs the airline can modify schedules to allow crew more time to eat or sleep, or divide up an existing schedule with fresh crew. Even small regionals have the ability to board meals if necessary.

FO can talk with captains on how to approach management
Let your captain know if you’re not feeling well or haven’t eaten. They can delay the departure to allow you to get food.

How cute your ideas are. Address the whole message...

The company doesn't care. It's adversarial and it's all they're concerned with.

Bottom line. Minimum cost.

That is all that matters to the managers, that's what drives their payday.

I'll manage my flight as I see fit and have whatever discussion I want with my colleagues at work.

If you believe it's so bad, I suggest that you book to fly with another airline with an industry leading pilot contract and compensation.

[citabriaguy]

Isn't the title factually incorrect?

I don't know of any airline contract where crews get raises for not crashing or don't get raises if they do damage an airplane.

News to me.

Maybe OP is thinking of pilots outside a union

[The Hammer]

Seriously you should be more concerned with chronic fatigue brought on by unrealistic planning and scheduling and a crappy contract.

You should be concerned with pilots skipping meals on layover while dealing with financial stresses being brought on by substandard pay and high costs of living in this country, while being shorted their expenses.

You should be more concerned with the stresses undergone by pilots away 16 - 20+ days/month, plus training days, plus possible commuting days, dealing with that stress, the stress of missing their kids lives, going through a divorce because they're so rarely there.

Those are changes required as well.

If pilots are repeatedly unable to eat or lack of sleep, this should be address with management & MEC.
Hold your MEC to task with the improvements you want.

If there're problem legs the airline can modify schedules to allow crew more time to eat or sleep, or divide up an existing schedule with fresh crew. Even small regionals have the ability to board meals if necessary.

FO can talk with captains on how to approach management
Let your captain know if you’re not feeling well or haven’t eaten. They can delay the departure to allow you to get food.

How cute your ideas are. Address the whole message...

The company doesn't care. It's adversarial and it's all they're concerned with.

Bottom line. Minimum cost.

That is all that matters to the managers, that's what drives their payday.

I'll manage my flight as I see fit and have whatever discussion I want with my colleagues at work.

If you believe it's so bad, I suggest that you book to fly with another airline with an industry leading pilot contract and compensation.

It's yours to manage unless SOP's state otherwise. Maybe you follow then closely and manage appropriately but a significant number of your colleagues do not. I don't need to listen to my colleague bitch for 8 minutes below 10,000 on arrival and inside the IAF but there's some that sure do. I say something and the Captain grumpy pants pouts the rest of the pairing. Which one are you?

I accepted the job knowing my working conditions and the # of days I'm gonna work, in the digital era there's no reason not to have a reasonable understanding. For sure I want them improved but I also know what I agreed to. As you stated divorces in aviation are common, there's no reason to be oblivious to that when you sign on after your 1st job. Maybe it's the farmer in me. If I signed a contract to sell canola this winter at $19.62/bushel and prices go up after that then that's on me. No different than a fixed vs variable mortgage.... 4 years ago I wouldn't have dreamed I'd be getting screwed this badly on my mortgage. Oh well I made a decision, I'll live with it.

[digits_]

Oh well I made a decision, I'll live with it.

Living with a decision doesn't mean you can't try and attempt to improve your situation. Complaining/bitching about it, is one way to raise awareness and try to improve your situation. Especially if your airline happens to be close to contract negotiations.

Maybe it's the farmer in me. If I signed a contract to sell canola this winter at $19.62/bushel and prices go up after that then that's on me.

Am I to believe a farmer would *not* complain if prices rose after a deal was made? I'm sure he'd stick to the deal, but he definitely would point out the savings the buyer made! No difference with a pilot here. The pilots are still fulfilling their side of the contract: flying the plane. Merely being vocal about being unhappy with the deal.

[Mac08]

Lots of union & pay talk going on between pilots

None of us want to be a passenger with crew that enter wrong FMS data while discussing a collective agreement

Focus on the aircraft while on duty

There’s time to talk MEC updates when waiting for crew transport or at the hotels
You can even volunteer with committees when not working

Don’t spoil the potential gains for pilots with incidents that muddle up the pilot reputation

With due respect, while I appreciate the reminder on stresses at work and managing it accordingly (ie. booking off if unfit), I'll manage my flight as I see fit and have whatever discussion I want with my colleagues at work.

If you think that the acrimony and egregious treatment from the employer is so much that crews can't handle themselves at work, I suggest that you book to fly with another airline with an industry leading pilot contract and compensation.

Seriously you should be more concerned with chronic fatigue brought on by unrealistic planning and scheduling and a crappy contract.

You should be concerned with pilots skipping meals on layover while dealing with financial stresses being brought on by substandard pay and high costs of living in this country, while being shorted their expenses.

You should be more concerned with the stresses undergone by pilots away 16 - 20+ days/month, plus training days, plus possible commuting days, dealing with that stress, the stress of missing their kids lives, going through a divorce because they're so rarely there.

I guarantee all that weighs harder than the cathartic release that is colleagues finding unity on flights decks in a common cause of improvement in wawcon, and improving their families' quality of life. Plus there's too much improvement needed to cover it all on only a hotel shuttle wait.

My god you sound like whiney prick.

I’m all onboard getting rid of the flat pay and increased wages, but sitting there with the crying “My flight I do what I want” attitude is just embarrassing. Are you 12? Not everyone wants to talk about your issues or opinion.

Send me your schedule so I can avoid flying with you like everyone else probably does after hearing you whine.

[‘Bob’]

This thread is depressing……

[flying4dollars]

Lots of union & pay talk going on between pilots

None of us want to be a passenger with crew that enter wrong FMS data while discussing a collective agreement

Focus on the aircraft while on duty

There’s time to talk MEC updates when waiting for crew transport or at the hotels
You can even volunteer with committees when not working

Don’t spoil the potential gains for pilots with incidents that muddle up the pilot reputation

Classic Avbanana.ça clique bait.

Many of us pro’s have had an incident/accident. While I am not proud of mine I certainly resent some smuck painting me and others with a wide brush.

CanadaAir, speak for yourself and not on behalf of all of us.


TPC

I think what he is trying to say is there can be a lot of distractions and added stresses as we approach contract time / possible strikes and to try keep the talk to non critical times of flight etc.

I think there are plenty of discussions work and non-work related than can 'distract' crews. But I sincerely doubt it would be to the point that it brings down an airliner. Thread creator is worried about preflight/inflight distractions? Well there's about 100 different things a crew can talk about that can distract a crew and is not unique to contract talks and pay. Most crews who are talking shop know when to shut down non SOP related talks anyways. This thread is a bit silly in my opinion.

[altiplano]

Lots of union & pay talk going on between pilots

None of us want to be a passenger with crew that enter wrong FMS data while discussing a collective agreement

Focus on the aircraft while on duty

There’s time to talk MEC updates when waiting for crew transport or at the hotels
You can even volunteer with committees when not working

Don’t spoil the potential gains for pilots with incidents that muddle up the pilot reputation

With due respect, while I appreciate the reminder on stresses at work and managing it accordingly (ie. booking off if unfit), I'll manage my flight as I see fit and have whatever discussion I want with my colleagues at work.

If you think that the acrimony and egregious treatment from the employer is so much that crews can't handle themselves at work, I suggest that you book to fly with another airline with an industry leading pilot contract and compensation.

Seriously you should be more concerned with chronic fatigue brought on by unrealistic planning and scheduling and a crappy contract.

You should be concerned with pilots skipping meals on layover while dealing with financial stresses being brought on by substandard pay and high costs of living in this country, while being shorted their expenses.

You should be more concerned with the stresses undergone by pilots away 16 - 20+ days/month, plus training days, plus possible commuting days, dealing with that stress, the stress of missing their kids lives, going through a divorce because they're so rarely there.

I guarantee all that weighs harder than the cathartic release that is colleagues finding unity on flights decks in a common cause of improvement in wawcon, and improving their families' quality of life. Plus there's too much improvement needed to cover it all on only a hotel shuttle wait.

My god you sound like whiney prick.

I’m all onboard getting rid of the flat pay and increased wages, but sitting there with the crying “My flight I do what I want” attitude is just embarrassing. Are you 12? Not everyone wants to talk about your issues or opinion.

Send me your schedule so I can avoid flying with you like everyone else probably does after hearing you whine.

Hey, how about go fûck yourself.

[altiplano]

Those are changes required as well.

If pilots are repeatedly unable to eat or lack of sleep, this should be address with management & MEC.
Hold your MEC to task with the improvements you want.

If there're problem legs the airline can modify schedules to allow crew more time to eat or sleep, or divide up an existing schedule with fresh crew. Even small regionals have the ability to board meals if necessary.

FO can talk with captains on how to approach management
Let your captain know if you’re not feeling well or haven’t eaten. They can delay the departure to allow you to get food.

How cute your ideas are. Address the whole message...

The company doesn't care. It's adversarial and it's all they're concerned with.

Bottom line. Minimum cost.

That is all that matters to the managers, that's what drives their payday.

I'll manage my flight as I see fit and have whatever discussion I want with my colleagues at work.

If you believe it's so bad, I suggest that you book to fly with another airline with an industry leading pilot contract and compensation.

It's yours to manage unless SOP's state otherwise. Maybe you follow then closely and manage appropriately but a significant number of your colleagues do not. I don't need to listen to my colleague bitch for 8 minutes below 10,000 on arrival and inside the IAF but there's some that sure do. I say something and the Captain grumpy pants pouts the rest of the pairing. Which one are you?

I accepted the job knowing my working conditions and the # of days I'm gonna work, in the digital era there's no reason not to have a reasonable understanding. For sure I want them improved but I also know what I agreed to. As you stated divorces in aviation are common, there's no reason to be oblivious to that when you sign on after your 1st job. Maybe it's the farmer in me. If I signed a contract to sell canola this winter at $19.62/bushel and prices go up after that then that's on me. No different than a fixed vs variable mortgage.... 4 years ago I wouldn't have dreamed I'd be getting screwed this badly on my mortgage. Oh well I made a decision, I'll live with it.

Give it up. I do my job well. Nobody is talking about ignoring their jobs to have a discussion.

And what is that word? Discussion? It means an exchange of ideas.

Any colleague understands that discussions on a pairing cover everything from what's happening at work and home to fishing, hunting, politics, music, travel, mechanics, cars, cities, hotels, food, history, geography, and more. It goes back and forth, it's not a soliloquy.

My colleagues and I will discuss whatever we want to discuss and do our jobs well while we do it. Irrespective of negots, time of year, or political cycle.

But I'll send my message to the OP again, think it's too HOT a time and don't like what your airline pilots may be talking about? Don't fly. But we don't sit in silence the rest of the time...

[Mac08]

With due respect, while I appreciate the reminder on stresses at work and managing it accordingly (ie. booking off if unfit), I'll manage my flight as I see fit and have whatever discussion I want with my colleagues at work.

If you think that the acrimony and egregious treatment from the employer is so much that crews can't handle themselves at work, I suggest that you book to fly with another airline with an industry leading pilot contract and compensation.

Seriously you should be more concerned with chronic fatigue brought on by unrealistic planning and scheduling and a crappy contract.

You should be concerned with pilots skipping meals on layover while dealing with financial stresses being brought on by substandard pay and high costs of living in this country, while being shorted their expenses.

You should be more concerned with the stresses undergone by pilots away 16 - 20+ days/month, plus training days, plus possible commuting days, dealing with that stress, the stress of missing their kids lives, going through a divorce because they're so rarely there.

I guarantee all that weighs harder than the cathartic release that is colleagues finding unity on flights decks in a common cause of improvement in wawcon, and improving their families' quality of life. Plus there's too much improvement needed to cover it all on only a hotel shuttle wait.

My god you sound like whiney prick.

I’m all onboard getting rid of the flat pay and increased wages, but sitting there with the crying “My flight I do what I want” attitude is just embarrassing. Are you 12? Not everyone wants to talk about your issues or opinion.

Send me your schedule so I can avoid flying with you like everyone else probably does after hearing you whine.

Hey, how about go fûck yourself.

Very creative response.

“Top Poster” How about you start being a professional airline pilot instead of a keyboard warrior.

[altiplano]

My god you sound like whiney prick.

I’m all onboard getting rid of the flat pay and increased wages, but sitting there with the crying “My flight I do what I want” attitude is just embarrassing. Are you 12? Not everyone wants to talk about your issues or opinion.

Send me your schedule so I can avoid flying with you like everyone else probably does after hearing you whine.

Hey, how about go fûck yourself.

Very creative response.

“Top Poster” How about you start being a professional airline pilot instead of a keyboard warrior.

I thought I told you to go fück yourself?

[AirCandida]

Unfortunately Mac, him as a top poster means he's a better poster than a professional pilot. And judging by his posts, it ain't saying much

[North Shore]

Devolving into a sniping match. Locked.