Question re NTA & CMA

Longtimer · Post by **Longtimer** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 7:23 am

I see, from their web site, that Northern Thunderbird and Central Mountain are sister companies. Do they operate as complete seperate entities or is the fleet & crews shared in some fashion? Just curious.

proper · Post by **proper** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:25 am

operated as seperate entities but all of CMA's/ NTA "D" models are dual registered ie. we can swap them back and forth however NTA has it's own a/c but uses CMA airplanes for charter and when the unpredictable happens, CMA uses our machine for some scheds. Same people at the top and more or less same money.

Longtimer · Post by **Longtimer** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:34 pm

Thanks for the info. What about the crews is there progression from on company to the other or is there / would there be any advantage to do so?

Dockjock · Post by **Dockjock** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:15 pm

They are essentially separate companies, but with the same owners. There is no progression from one to the other (a la Georgian Express to Air Georgian), nor would there really be an advantage to do so as there is so much overlap.
However, there is a little bit of sharing. When CMA does layoffs, typically the first place the pilots look for jobs is NT- and with the close connections, CMA pilots seem to more or less have first crack at any openings. Thunderbird has also sent the odd pilot over to CMA, but that is even rarer.
I've always wondered why they were operated separately given all the commonalities. There could be some cost savings, one would think, by eliminating all the duplication. I believe the main reason is an arms length relationship insulates CMA from the riskier flying (off strip, mountain flying not to ILS approaches, charter etc.) NT does and protects them with respect to the Air Canada flying. Recent GGN Express and NTair accidents show the importance of that- gotta keep Big Red happy.
But also, to my cynical mind, it plays the whipsaw nicely every time one group or the other get a little too uppity. If management/ownership ever got whiff of any labour organization action, it takes but a logbook entry to transfer all the aircraft over to the other company. Cheery industry innit...?

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:11 am

So it's kind of like the Thunder/Bearskin thing? Except you can't talk about that because it's a secret?

twotter · Post by **twotter** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:37 pm

Medby, that wasn't his girlfriend.. It was Scott's wife.. better watch out..

TerrainTerrain · Post by **TerrainTerrain** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:49 pm

http://lostav8r.blogspot.com/

Here's a blog about a NTair pilot. Gives you an idea about why its a little different than CMA in the charter sense. Also a good indication about BC flying in general. Interesting read and great pictures on there.

Flying Nutcracker · Post by **Flying Nutcracker** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:01 pm

If this is all true... if CMA people don't do any work like the NT people are... then maybe 22500 isn't too bad of a deal after all... sounds pretty cushy!!! No flightplanning? No loading bags? Just show up and go? wow! AND they provide you with silly hats and jackets?!?!? Sounds like a nice stepping stone to places where those hats and jackets are justified I guess... Still silly mind you, but justified nevertheless!

proper · Post by **proper** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:22 pm

Yeah that blog about the Nt air pilot is all true. I used to fly out of Prince George and he describes it all to a tee. Well Done SHawn. Awesome pics and great text.
Well done!

EyeOh · Post by **EyeOh** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:02 pm

Actually,some corrections to medby
"Any NTAir pilot can do a CMA trip but only a handfull of CMA guys can fly for Thunderbird"

BS. Whoever is on reserve at CMA can get a NT charter. In fact, it is more the other way around. NT pilots cant do CMA Skeds in a lot of cases, due to the Air Canada training requirements (IE both crew members requiring SIM training, as only NT capts go to sim). There is no problem with NT doing a 9M sked, however I cant remember the last that happened.

"CMA pilots wear the silly jackets and hats like they are about to board an A340 and have a little machine that briefs the passengers for them to reduce their incredible work load"

I love how people that fly charters make fun of airline uniforms, but 90% want an airline job. See you when you put on your " silly jacket and hat".

Go Guns · Post by **Go Guns** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:09 pm

I was gonna say.... maybe your hat is to small...

The fact of the matter is, there is some crossing over, but not all that often, and there are certain restrictions. I don't think I've seen an NT pilot do a CMA run since I got here, probably because NT has been pretty busy and CMA has been hiring a shwack so (I believe) they're doing ok for crewing.

And, I could care less what you wear to work, but I doubt the 90% of people looking for an airline job are doing so cause they're anxious to wear the uniform.

Hmmmm... Although, I wonder if they sell Air Canada lace thongs......

Lommer · Post by **Lommer** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:13 am

How does pilot pay compare between the two?

bushpilotplus · Post by **bushpilotplus** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:39 pm

Medby you're quite the loser. I know that you haven't been at NT for long and yet you prance around as if you were a vet. Mr. 4000 hour 185 and 206 driver to capt of the beech in what 3 months??? For crying out loud respect the flying and people you work with by keeping your mouth shut about stuff you don't know anything about. CMA and NT air are partners owned by the SAME people. Why don't you tell CMA management how you feel? If you did you'd be back at Bella coola air in no time. HA!

and yeah yeah yeah I just signed up. So save your hick breath about that.
You ruin the respect we've earned over years of safe hard work. Here's an idea. I'll check you out on a kite.

ya_medby · Post by **ya_medby** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:47 am

well said.......

proper · Post by **proper** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:35 am

wow a little harsh that's for sure, but it is true do not "diss" CMA as it is comparable to dissing your close uncle. We are one team and we all work hard to get the job done. Some of us do the more challenging stuff while as in anything someone has to do the more "boring" stuff, the Nt crew happens to be the more fortunate of the 2 and I wouldn't haveit any other way. Well that is in my opinion anyway.

medby · Post by **medby** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:48 am

tincanflyer · Post by **tincanflyer** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:10 am

Sorry gents, was just having a bit of fun is all. I'll try to include more smiley faces in my posts next time. Didn't mean any harm. Was honestly meant as a joke but I obviously struck a nerve. Wasn't as much "dissing" a close uncle as much as it was ribbing a brother. Won't happen again. Pulling the post.

Yeah must be a lower tomer.....all cocky and Mr. Cool until a pilot with more class smacks him one than he retreats like a school girl.....nomatter if its on Avcanada or in the hangar they are all the same.

angry inch · Post by **angry inch** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:38 pm

Low-time, High-Time, No-time... whatever... has nuthin' to do with how much class a guy/girl has bro... You either have it or you don't.