Voyageur

longjon · Post by **longjon** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:18 am

I see Voyageur are looking for Engineers, does anyone have any info on the 4 continents they operate in?

Do they pay the overseas guys into offshore accts?

How short of guys are they?

Pat Richard · Post by **Pat Richard** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:20 am

They're always running ads here. I don't know exactly what their current pay is, but it was shit (21 a/hr for an AME with relevant endoresment)late last winter, both in Canada, and overseas. They also offered zero in relocation expenses.
Going by the frequency of their ads, they're either getting huge amounts of work and cant find AME's(pay), or losing(workers) what they have due to other places paying better. They are what you would call a "frequent flyer" in regards to the "help wanted" section here.

If anything has changed, I stand corrected. But this was accurate as of Feb of this year.

Do a search here, they've been discussed before.

MUD BUTT · Post by **MUD BUTT** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:51 pm

Hey patty!! It seems that all you do is b**ch and complain. Wages, benefits and all different kinds of company's in the world of aviation is all you b**ch about. Heres a question where do you work? What wage do you get? You must get payed shit for the amount of B**ching you do or are on your rag all the time? If you don't like what you do or what you get paid to do it. Then leave the industry and this forum before you get to old. Or is that the problem? To far along,can't bother to leave. So you just b**ch and complain on here. I'm not sure how b**ching & complaining makes you feel better. But if its working for you keep on truckin PATTY!!!!!
Just my 2 cents

Pat Richard · Post by **Pat Richard** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:24 am

hmmm.... I'll keep truckin', thanks.
Admittedly, I do get a charge outa winding up individuals such as yourself, butt mud(Voyageur recruiter??). So I shall keep at it as I see fit, no matter how much it bugs the mouthfoamer's out there.
Thats why god put me here...

Toodaloo!

chubbee · Post by **chubbee** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:18 pm

One definition of stress is "that bad feeling,... I give to OTHER people"

Keep at it Pat,

MZUNGO · Post by **MZUNGO** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:32 pm

ok i'll actually answer your question. i dont know about FOUR continents but we operate in africa and canada, but if you are working for fugro doing geological survey they go where the money is.

the africa operations are in sudan,uganda,and congo and are in support of the U.N. during a tour of africa you are paid direct deposit into your bank account and are given perdiems weekly. i dont know if they will pay into a foriegn bank.

the reason that voyageur is always advertising is that there is huge amounts of work and not because the pay sucks. i am getting 50% more here than anywhere else i went to for a job and i dont have to live in the boonies to get it either.

like any other company there are good and bad things to say, but the good far outwiegh the bad. there are a few people who are always snivveling about how they are so hard done by and they only made 60k last year and they dont want to travel or do any overtime. luckily those guys are the exception not the rule.

most of the guys are really switched on and care about what they do, there is room for advancement but no company is going to start anyone at top rate or pay some guy they dont know anything about to move, only to discover that he is a whiny little kid with no work ethic. who jumps ship at the first nickel waved under his nose by somebody else.

if you want to see a crappy part of the industry go look at anyone who works in a ramp service company. i am treated and PAID way better than when i worked for the fuel company in winnipeg.

. having been in various parts of the industry for 17 years i have to say that as an A.M.E. we have it pretty good. these are only my opinions bit they are first hand

Pat Richard · Post by **Pat Richard** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:49 pm

You know Dylan , its cool you're happy. You give your opinon, I give mine.
Both seemed to be based on our respective experiences, and for me personally, from two other individuals.
Are you basing your "50% more" statement on what you made at the ramp company? Because what they(Voyageur) were offering in the time I quoted, was drastically less than I was accustomed to for what they were expecting of me. I could barely stifle a laugh when the dom blurted it out. As I've talked to people since then, I got the same story, either from North Bay, or their seasonal op in Vancouver(a month and a half ago)
Maybe you guys are accustomed to less out there, I don't know, but that kind of money was/is a joke out here.

A little perspective, why should an AME have to travel/do overtime to make more than 60 a year? Have a look at how much carpenters/welders/plumbers/etc, travel in a year to make past 60. The ones that i know that do make well into six figures, and there not having to be in places like sub/saharan africa, with it's associated risk to life and limb. Or is that just expected of "good" AME's. I see no reason why an AME exercising his authority, in Canada, can't make well past that. Problem always is, somebody is always there ready to accept less, and be happy with it, undermining any progress in respect to wages.

As for most AME's being happy with the current wage/work conditions.....all I can say is I've never met one, with any decent amount of time served, who is. Gods honest truth. Maybe its an eastern thing, but I know several from that area also, so I doubt it.
My experience has also shown the companies that have problems attracting good people, are the ones pay relatively poorly, treat their employees poorly, or as is common in aviation, both.

There is no shortage of experienced AME's. There is only a shortage of cheap experienced AME's. Simple as that.

Anyway, if your happy at around 50 a year(you say you dont go into the sticks), so be it. I would'nt be, not with 17 years into it.

Parity with plumbers would be nice, either wages or schedulewise

, but I guess I just aim a little higher.

Pat

not my REAL name

longjon · Post by **longjon** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:30 pm

Dylan thanks for the info, I asked the orignal question and you pretty much gave me what I was looking for.

Ive been doing the OS thing for a bit now and there are guys making more and having it put into offshore accts. Unless you enjoy the work or the Night Fighters (Nigerian expression) then you can do better.

MZUNGO · Post by **MZUNGO** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 6:29 am

no worries jon glad to help, there are significant tax breaks fir you if you want to rotate through africa on a full time basis. so thats what i will be doing for a couple of years.

and for pat .... you are the shock jock of this forum some people love you some hate you but we all read your posts just to see what you will say next. mabye i wasnt clear about the money thing, i was offered substantially less money as an ame by about 6 different places before coming here. should i get more? hell yes!! will i get more? hell no.

i dissagree with what you have to say more often than not,(i'm not saying that you are wrong just dissagreeing) but i respect your opinion

Pat Richard · Post by **Pat Richard** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:57 am

No prob dude.

Agree to disagree..

Happy weekend All..

Pat out..

Northof60 · Post by **Northof60** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:17 pm

I have worked for voyageur in the passed and all i can say is those guys are very cheap. They take advantage of the employees. Don t pay good, and its 10 apprentice to one engineer. The best thing i ever did is get the hell out of there

.

airwrench · Post by **airwrench** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:45 am

Is there higher pay for overseas work?

Pat Richard · Post by **Pat Richard** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:54 am

This is from memory, so Im open to corrections, but I seem to recall it was time and half for overseas.
Not a 100% sure, and I think there was a perdium too, but I do know none of it impressed in the least, when he(DOM) told me.
I did mention to him that one does better contracting in Canada(western)than what they were offering, and he really did'nt have an answer, except to ramble on how people in aviation needed to be a "little crazy" to do this kind of work.

Whatever the hell that's supposed to mean....

BusDriver · Post by **BusDriver** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:31 am

Voyageur has never paid well(and never will)!!! Pat is spot on!! Talk to the boy's leaving before you bitch. Too many people with family in YYB keeps the wages suppressed.

Pat Richard · Post by **Pat Richard** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:07 am

Some other people's comments on voyageur.....

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=16611

Enjoy!!

MUD BUTT · Post by **MUD BUTT** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:57 pm

Thanx Pat !!!!
You must really have something against Voyageur eh???

Pat Richard · Post by **Pat Richard** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:12 pm

You must really have something against Voyageur eh???

Don't really understand what you're getting at with that question. Seems to me that I'll I've done is divuldge their pay practices, which more than one other here has opined as being poor, and that they're always running ads here, and invite each to draw they're own conclusion. Which as you can see, some have.
I could care less if it points to voyageur in a negative light, and that you don't like it. I've divulged simaler info about other places also, so nothing special about Voyageur, literally. But Im hardly alone in thinking that.

So again, I'll continue to post what i know about
any company, negative or positive, and not give a shit as to who it upsets.

MUD BUTT · Post by **MUD BUTT** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:51 am

Oh Don't you worry your little heart, Pat. I really don't care what you say about any company or Voyageur for that matter. Just kinda wondering where all your anger and negativity comes from? Were you beat'n by your mother as a child?

Pat Richard · Post by **Pat Richard** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:02 pm

Were you beat'n by your mother as a child?

Wow...What sharp wit you have

That's almost as good as "keep on truckin'"

After I quit laughing, I started to feel a little bad for you, if that's the best you can do.
Seem's to me im dealing either with a child, with his/her parents helping out with dialogue(on their computer), or a mildly/moderately retarded older adult, who has some in between time to stab away at the computer while the model glue sets up on his plastic airplane kit.

You obviously do not comprehend what you read, or you would reliaze the negativity you accuse me of comes from the mentioned company(s). I simply pass on to everyone what they offer, either in wages, or work conditions. Do you understand? If not, maybe it's an language thing, in which case your SOL, as I don't speak/write in retard...

Hmm...you don't care huh? I think you're in denial. I think you're set on butting heads with me, but you bring nothing in terms of contradictory/contrary(have your mom look it up) facts. All ya got are some lame taunts in response. Very sad

, which again, is why I think the mentality Im dealing with is underdeveloped.

On that note, a final bit of advice. You're gonna need(with Mommy/Daddy/asswiper's help) to be more original than the 20+ year old lame taunts you're resorting to currently, if you want to keep my attention.

Which in the end, the more I think about it, is really what this about, isn't it, BUTT MUDD?

That's kinda flattering actually

hehe...

Vickers vanguard · Post by **Vickers vanguard** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:30 pm

MUD BUTT wrote:Oh Don't you worry your little heart, Pat. I really don't care what you say about any company or Voyageur for that matter. Just kinda wondering where all your anger and negativity comes from? Were you beat'n by your mother as a child?

With all respect Mud, Pat is totally free to post his opinions of Voyageur. Mud, if you have that many people who come forward and say your pay is the problem overall, well I think you should take note and work on that.
I am not defending Pat in particular, in fact, we had few disagreements of opinions in the past.

take care.......

benchmark · Post by **benchmark** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:42 pm

if you like having your $3500 snapon toolbox drawers glued shut or filled with sh*t every other day, then go work for voyeguer!! i heard as well that recently they were only paying $19-21 in northbay

gli77 · Post by **gli77** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:53 pm

I see the age old debate is still raging on with Pat leading the charge. Pat did make one very important point though, there is always someone willing to work for less. Some companies look for that individual, some avoid that individual, but as long as that mentality is out there complaints about this industry will rage on.

The original post and subsequent post eludes to one big problem in our field. We are NOT engineers!! We are technicians or mechanics. Change AME to AMT. We went to a college for two years to complete a program that is not overly tough. I've completed the avionics at a college and the mechanics program through ICS. Come on!?, I completed the mechanics trade curriculum through correspondence!!! We do not have 4 year degrees, we did not study calculus, algebra, chemistry, physics etc. to any extent beyond what I learned in high school. For God's sake I had to take an English grammar course in college!! Further more most of our work is done in accordance with instructions written by an engineer.

I once listened to a mechanic ramble on about how he was more valuable than a doctor because of all the lives he was responsible for. BullSh1t. One changes an engine on a 737 with the guidance of a procedure. After it is done it is released IAW task XXXXXX. Unless he is grossly negligent in his duties, design engineering, flight crew resource management, and our abilities to follow procedures is what makes aviation safe.

The point of this is that there are a couple of levels above us. Mechanics/avionics/structures have a limited amount of theory taught to them and gain hands on skills. It is the hands on skills that make our levels of competence. The phrase "no one is irreplaceable" has never been so true as it is in aircraft maintenance. If I am an employer I dont have to pay top dollar to get someone to bash rivets, run wires, or change tires. I can get by with low wages and high turn around, it's been proven. Afterall one signature releases the aircraft. It sucks, and in my opinion is not wise , but hey thats the biz.

I can not however design an aircraft or modification with just anyone. Degree'd engineers, DAR/DAD's are at the level that so many "AME's" want to be at. They work 9-5, nice pay cheques, nice cars, nice houses and rarely if ever set foot in the bush. They also have a far greater education levels than we competed.

One can make a good wage in this business. I am quite happy with mine. But there are always always always always!!! going to be low paying companies who treat their employees like crap. If you dont like it quit, find another company, good ones are out there. If you think "AME" means something, think again. Take a look at the curriculum for an engineering degree. An electrical engineering degree pretty much surpasses after a couple of semesters what I learned in two years at a college. A company can hire a mechanic without any education or licence to fill a mechanics position. An engineering firm can not hire someone without a degree to fill an engineering position.

There is a big variance in wages throught Canada. I know many helicopter guys that make upwards of $85 000+ with a good rotational schedule. Good guys in that field are usually paid well. I know guys at Jazz getting $18/hr. I know contractors getting $42/hr plus many extras. My advice, take a step back and look at the big picture. If you are not were you want to be figure out how to get there. Reality is cold and impartial.

Of course someone is going to say that a plumber makes $50/hr and doesn't have a degree. That is true and irrelevant. Different industry, different trade, different everything. You might as well say "well Tiger Woods gets paid millions to hit a little ball" it means nothing. We are in aviation and can only compare ourselves to trades within our industry.

I know this has nothing to do with Voyageur but Pat is slinging mud about someones mother so I figured it was open season.

Take care all,

Troubleshot · Post by **Troubleshot** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:04 pm

I would somewhat agree with you on the whole AME/AMT thing....(Sanitary Engineers ie. garbage man) but do believe I am a valuable part in the safety of people on the aircraft, not for the tasks layed out on paper but the stuff I find because I give a crap and take pride in what I do. Most AME's will tell you they find alot of things wrong even when the manufactures manuals or check sheets makes no mention to look there, but since we are best mechanics in the world we dig deeper and find it before it breaks thus preventing shit from hitting the fan. And as for Doctors....lol they can never tells it's cancer till it's to late..

I don't think we are entitled to huge dollars but we are accountable for everything we do...If my friends have a bad day at work or forget to do a task they can rest easy because they can take care of it tomorrow with little or no flak from the boss...an AME cannot, we are expected to bang on for 12hrs from 8pm-8am, if we are not you could be potentially be stripped of your licence, your job,...your livelyhood.... all because someone asked you a question distracted you and you forgot to bend over that cotter pin, I doubt too many people bust into a operating room as ask the doctor to "come outside and look at this for me would ya"

gli77 · Post by **gli77** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:57 pm

Troubleshot I absolutely agree with you. But you are highlighting the group of tech's that do care and take great pride in their work. But there is an opposite side of the scale. How many loafers are there that go missing on a night shift around 2 am, cat nap somewhere? How many times have you tried troubleshooting a snag with someone who had no clue whatsoever, but demanded that you listen to them.

My comparison is that for our line of work there is a broad range of talent. Therefore there will be a broad range of pay. A shrewd business man is not going to run an outfit paying top dollar to everyone that comes through the door. Likely he will have a couple of guys he knows and have proven there worth and everyone can start at the $11/hr range. If they dont like it then see ya because there will be someone walking through the door. Simply put I can hire anyone to bash rivets, run wires, change tires no education required. It happens we all know it. And we all know you get what you pay for but when it comes to profits that is often forgotten at some places.

I am very well aware that manuals and modifications do contain errors. But the simple fact is that you and I can not write a manual or design a major mod. These fall to DAD's/DAR's who are in the end taking a tremendous amount of responsibility. Much more than me and my freshly completed A check.

At the end of the day is a tech a valuable part of aviation? Of course. Am I going to make $100 000 living in Vancouver? Never. Should I? No, it was a 2 year college program! It is much easier to get in working on the floor than it is into an engineering position.

If you really want to wrap your head up in this consider that Bombardier pays people right off of the streets with absoluetly no experience, gives them a 1 or 2 weeks course and off they go to build airplanes at $30/hr.

As for doctors I was thinking more along the lines of in an ER when you take your child in with a life threataning emergency and he/she saves your childs life with minutes/seconds to make their decisions. That beats the hell out of a tech who's cracking the system description to troubleshoot his assigned snag. The airplane wont die in 10 minutes if you dont know what to do. The accident victim will. At any rate it was a ludicrous statement steeped in arrogance.

Troubleshot · Post by **Troubleshot** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:35 am

gli77 wrote: How many loafers are there that go missing on a night shift around 2 am, cat nap somewhere? How many times have you tried troubleshooting a snag with someone who had no clue whatsoever, but demanded that you listen to them.

that's good material...and very true

I guess we can say that the ole supply and demand thing applies here, if there were very few AME's we all be making big bucks...I think $30/hour is a good living for an AME as well as a fair wage.

I agree with you on all your points, regarding your schooling and how much you make, but I will say that an AME and a pilot go to college for roughly the same amount of time...in 10 years a pilot will be making far more than a AME (or should be). Are they more valuable? maybe, maybe not....as for other trades there is very little overhead in there industries....consider a plummers wrench does not have to be certified, nor does the parts he uses to fix your pipes, same as an auto mechanic, the car garage is a money maker for a dealership not a cost like an aircraft hangar with an airline.

That being said I think the industry is ready to start paying higher because the demand for experience AME's is starting to show and will be reflected in the salaries in the coming years.

Voyageur

Voyageur

HEy fat PAT!!

Voyageur