Invites for 2024 GS?

[Hysteria]

What will be interesting is after the merger the low time Sunwing guys that I’ve heard they’ve been hiring a lot of lately will likely not be able to fly at WJ. Perhaps the plan will be to offer them a position at Encore, and hence solve some of Encore’s staffing issues (for FOs anyway).
I can’t see WJ dropping their 1500/ATPL requirement. There will be a huge backlash from ALPA if they try.

Not true at all. Once hired you are hired. Sunwing has some high time pilots without ATPLs that have been here 10+ years. The new low time pilots are perfectly capable. The cadets are some of the sharpest pilots I've flown with. One is will be a captain in the next round of upgrades. Another one is a recently upgraded captain at Air Canada. Hiring going forward is a different ball game.

Might be a dumb question but how can one be there for years and not have an ATPL? Is it that they did not acquire the AA’s PIC time before becoming 705 FO?

[daedalusx]

You’d have to be insane to think that a 737 FO with years of experience would be demoted to being an Encore FO because they lack the ATPL.
I don’t like cadets programs and I don’t think they should exist but that’s just ridiculous.

[josejimenes33]

What will be interesting is after the merger the low time Sunwing guys that I’ve heard they’ve been hiring a lot of lately will likely not be able to fly at WJ. Perhaps the plan will be to offer them a position at Encore, and hence solve some of Encore’s staffing issues (for FOs anyway).
I can’t see WJ dropping their 1500/ATPL requirement. There will be a huge backlash from ALPA if they try.

Not true at all. Once hired you are hired. Sunwing has some high time pilots without ATPLs that have been here 10+ years. The new low time pilots are perfectly capable. The cadets are some of the sharpest pilots I've flown with. One is will be a captain in the next round of upgrades. Another one is a recently upgraded captain at Air Canada. Hiring going forward is a different ball game.

You cannot sanely think that a 250hrs CPL pilot will match the level of experience of a 1500+hrs ATPL pilot hired in mainline. If Sunwing low timers (or even high timers) FOs were not recruited or didn't apply to WJ mainline (one of the 2(3?) Major airline in Canada) there is a reason. I'm not saying that SW FOs are incompetent, but you can't compare a major airline recruitment versus a leisure airline recruitment.

[fish4life]

Insurance requirements could be different, maybe one company has certain requirements in their policy that make it a bit cheaper. No one on here would know

[MaxAuto]

What will be interesting is after the merger the low time Sunwing guys that I’ve heard they’ve been hiring a lot of lately will likely not be able to fly at WJ. Perhaps the plan will be to offer them a position at Encore, and hence solve some of Encore’s staffing issues (for FOs anyway).
I can’t see WJ dropping their 1500/ATPL requirement. There will be a huge backlash from ALPA if they try.

Not true at all. Once hired you are hired. Sunwing has some high time pilots without ATPLs that have been here 10+ years. The new low time pilots are perfectly capable. The cadets are some of the sharpest pilots I've flown with. One is will be a captain in the next round of upgrades. Another one is a recently upgraded captain at Air Canada. Hiring going forward is a different ball game.

You cannot sanely think that a 250hrs CPL pilot will match the level of experience of a 1500+hrs ATPL pilot hired in mainline. If Sunwing low timers (or even high timers) FOs were not recruited or didn't apply to WJ mainline (one of the 2(3?) Major airline in Canada) there is a reason. I'm not saying that SW FOs are incompetent, but you can't compare a major airline recruitment versus a leisure airline recruitment.

Major vs leisure is irrelevant. Porters interview process is harder than Sunwing interviews. So what? Line pilots interview pilots at Sunwing. The way it should be. No dumb compass testing or stupid 10 min presentations. Sunwing turns down a lot of pilots. Sunwing flying is just as complicated and dangerous as WestJet flying if the guys upfront don't know what they are doing. These pilots are already on a list and are union paying members. Their jobs are safe post seniority integration. They have rights. And yes some are better than the 1500+ hour pilots. When you sit in the left seat you'll be surprised at what see with high time pikots. The opposite is also true from the right seat.

Lots of Sunwing pilots never applied or did and turned it down because some flying is more enjoyable than others. Schedule carrier flying is boring and mundane. Being at Sunwing pilot has nothing to do with not being able to get on with AC or WJ.

[nohojob]

Regardless, last time I checked, swg aircraft are not falling from the sky !

[ant_321]

What will be interesting is after the merger the low time Sunwing guys that I’ve heard they’ve been hiring a lot of lately will likely not be able to fly at WJ. Perhaps the plan will be to offer them a position at Encore, and hence solve some of Encore’s staffing issues (for FOs anyway).
I can’t see WJ dropping their 1500/ATPL requirement. There will be a huge backlash from ALPA if they try.

Requirements change all the time. When I was hired at Sunwing they required 3000hrs TT. My job before that required 3000hrs for captain. That was a “hard” number until it wasn’t anymore.

[Blackdog0301]

What will be interesting is after the merger the low time Sunwing guys that I’ve heard they’ve been hiring a lot of lately will likely not be able to fly at WJ. Perhaps the plan will be to offer them a position at Encore, and hence solve some of Encore’s staffing issues (for FOs anyway).
I can’t see WJ dropping their 1500/ATPL requirement. There will be a huge backlash from ALPA if they try.

Not true at all. Once hired you are hired. Sunwing has some high time pilots without ATPLs that have been here 10+ years. The new low time pilots are perfectly capable. The cadets are some of the sharpest pilots I've flown with. One is will be a captain in the next round of upgrades. Another one is a recently upgraded captain at Air Canada. Hiring going forward is a different ball game.

Why would anyone go that far into their career without getting their ATPL? The way I see it, if you can't bother to go through the effort of getting your ATPL signed off for whatever reason that may be, maybe you deserve to go to back to turboprop flying.

I know this is probably an unpopular opinion, but I support throwing the low-time/non-ATPL licensed pilots at Encore. That's still better than the street, or working at some sketchy 703 northern operator. That would fix the pilot shortage at Encore.... Temporarily anyways.

Que the hate comments!

[CarlG2000]

If the merger is between SWG unifor and WJ ALPA how could any pilots be “thrown” at encore which is a separate OC and Union?

[Oleo 4]

Pump the brakes!

Lots of questions here that will not be answered on public forums with information and data from the parties involved that will provide factual guidance. This process is being worked through, conjecture and stating what will happen based on personal desires will not help and only drive a wedge between all parties. Their will be Positions when all said and done that are not happy as with any merger, until then lets try to keep this on the rails so both committees can work together.

O

As for ground schools, last I heard (probably not current) the next classes are Feb, March, April, May, June, Aug, and September

[PittBoss]

As for ground schools, last I heard (probably not current) the next classes are Feb, March, April, May, June, Aug, and September

For WJ?

[LR200]

What will be interesting is after the merger the low time Sunwing guys that I’ve heard they’ve been hiring a lot of lately will likely not be able to fly at WJ. Perhaps the plan will be to offer them a position at Encore, and hence solve some of Encore’s staffing issues (for FOs anyway).
I can’t see WJ dropping their 1500/ATPL requirement. There will be a huge backlash from ALPA if they try.

Not true at all. Once hired you are hired. Sunwing has some high time pilots without ATPLs that have been here 10+ years. The new low time pilots are perfectly capable. The cadets are some of the sharpest pilots I've flown with. One is will be a captain in the next round of upgrades. Another one is a recently upgraded captain at Air Canada. Hiring going forward is a different ball game.

You cannot sanely think that a 250hrs CPL pilot will match the level of experience of a 1500+hrs ATPL pilot hired in mainline. If Sunwing low timers (or even high timers) FOs were not recruited or didn't apply to WJ mainline (one of the 2(3?) Major airline in Canada) there is a reason. I'm not saying that SW FOs are incompetent, but you can't compare a major airline recruitment versus a leisure airline recruitment.

Not too sure about that statement. Flown with guys with thousands of hours who have nearly killed me on multiple occasions. Have also flown with people with very low time and have been incredibly sharp. I think it’s all a mentality thing. Those who take the job seriously and care will be far better.

[Oleo 4]

As for ground schools, last I heard (probably not current) the next classes are Feb, March, April, May, June, Aug, and September

For WJ?

Yes for WJ

O

[PittBoss]

I remember they mentioned they just have 5 GS planned this year. March April May Sep Oct

[TylxrG]

What will be interesting is after the merger the low time Sunwing guys that I’ve heard they’ve been hiring a lot of lately will likely not be able to fly at WJ. Perhaps the plan will be to offer them a position at Encore, and hence solve some of Encore’s staffing issues (for FOs anyway).
I can’t see WJ dropping their 1500/ATPL requirement. There will be a huge backlash from ALPA if they try.

Not true at all. Once hired you are hired. Sunwing has some high time pilots without ATPLs that have been here 10+ years. The new low time pilots are perfectly capable. The cadets are some of the sharpest pilots I've flown with. One is will be a captain in the next round of upgrades. Another one is a recently upgraded captain at Air Canada. Hiring going forward is a different ball game.

Might be a dumb question but how can one be there for years and not have an ATPL? Is it that they did not acquire the AA’s PIC time before becoming 705 FO?

Your question isn’t dumb!

To be a Cadet, you have to be part of a partnered university or college aviation program.

Let’s say, U Waterloo aviation for example. You have to be “integrated” which means doing all your training (including meeting benchmarks on time) at the Waterloo Wellington Flight Centre. Then you write the ATPL exam when your training is complete and go to Sunwing at 250 hours if they hire you.

The issue is getting the PIC hours. Most don’t go for the cadet opportunity and pay for their instructor rating, then onwards to getting paid to build the hours. However, if you’re a cadet pathways 737 FO, your career is basically, “stagnant” if you don’t have the money to rent a 152, or money/free time to become an instructor. For many, the goal is, “fly the biggest jet as young as possible”. That makes the cadet program attractive. However, some folks don’t think about the long term.

That’s why I’m not keen on “skipping” steps. While It will take longer to end up in a jet, you would at least be upgradable.

Everyone’s path is different so I don’t judge regardless but I personally wouldn’t skip the class 4 rating.

[Hysteria]

Not true at all. Once hired you are hired. Sunwing has some high time pilots without ATPLs that have been here 10+ years. The new low time pilots are perfectly capable. The cadets are some of the sharpest pilots I've flown with. One is will be a captain in the next round of upgrades. Another one is a recently upgraded captain at Air Canada. Hiring going forward is a different ball game.

Might be a dumb question but how can one be there for years and not have an ATPL? Is it that they did not acquire the AA’s PIC time before becoming 705 FO?

Your question isn’t dumb!

To be a Cadet, you have to be part of a partnered university or college aviation program.

Let’s say, U Waterloo aviation for example. You have to be “integrated” which means doing all your training (including meeting benchmarks on time) at the Waterloo Wellington Flight Centre. Then you write the ATPL exam when your training is complete and go to Sunwing at 250 hours if they hire you.

The issue is getting the PIC hours. Most don’t go for the cadet opportunity and pay for their instructor rating, then onwards to getting paid to build the hours. However, if you’re a cadet pathways 737 FO, your career is basically, “stagnant” if you don’t have the money to rent a 152, or money/free time to become an instructor. For many, the goal is, “fly the biggest jet as young as possible”. That makes the cadet program attractive. However, some folks don’t think about the long term.

That’s why I’m not keen on “skipping” steps. While It will take longer to end up in a jet, you would at least be upgradable.

Everyone’s path is different so I don’t judge regardless but I personally wouldn’t skip the class 4 rating.

Thanks, some of my old students elected to take an integrated program and I had advised them that they were not immune to the 250 pic requirement. Then I started doubting whether the iATPL veto’d the 250 pic requirement - but I was right the first time.

[Me262]

Might be a dumb question but how can one be there for years and not have an ATPL? Is it that they did not acquire the AA’s PIC time before becoming 705 FO?

Your question isn’t dumb!

To be a Cadet, you have to be part of a partnered university or college aviation program.

Let’s say, U Waterloo aviation for example. You have to be “integrated” which means doing all your training (including meeting benchmarks on time) at the Waterloo Wellington Flight Centre. Then you write the ATPL exam when your training is complete and go to Sunwing at 250 hours if they hire you.

The issue is getting the PIC hours. Most don’t go for the cadet opportunity and pay for their instructor rating, then onwards to getting paid to build the hours. However, if you’re a cadet pathways 737 FO, your career is basically, “stagnant” if you don’t have the money to rent a 152, or money/free time to become an instructor. For many, the goal is, “fly the biggest jet as young as possible”. That makes the cadet program attractive. However, some folks don’t think about the long term.

That’s why I’m not keen on “skipping” steps. While It will take longer to end up in a jet, you would at least be upgradable.

Everyone’s path is different so I don’t judge regardless but I personally wouldn’t skip the class 4 rating.

Thanks, some of my old students elected to take an integrated program and I had advised them that they were not immune to the 250 pic requirement. Then I started doubting whether the iATPL veto’d the 250 pic requirement - but I was right the first time.

Meanwhile EASA pilots have no problem flying jets and upgrading to captain with also 250hrs to start but able to get the remaining 400hrs as PICUS. In an airspace magnitude more difficult with specific rules over each country vs the open and simple space of Canada.

The 100 PICUS maximum is archaic and I've said it before, buffalo joe mentality that a pilot needs to "fly up north and work the ramp" because that's what all the boomers had to do

[CaptDukeNukem]

Your question isn’t dumb!

To be a Cadet, you have to be part of a partnered university or college aviation program.

Let’s say, U Waterloo aviation for example. You have to be “integrated” which means doing all your training (including meeting benchmarks on time) at the Waterloo Wellington Flight Centre. Then you write the ATPL exam when your training is complete and go to Sunwing at 250 hours if they hire you.

The issue is getting the PIC hours. Most don’t go for the cadet opportunity and pay for their instructor rating, then onwards to getting paid to build the hours. However, if you’re a cadet pathways 737 FO, your career is basically, “stagnant” if you don’t have the money to rent a 152, or money/free time to become an instructor. For many, the goal is, “fly the biggest jet as young as possible”. That makes the cadet program attractive. However, some folks don’t think about the long term.

That’s why I’m not keen on “skipping” steps. While It will take longer to end up in a jet, you would at least be upgradable.

Everyone’s path is different so I don’t judge regardless but I personally wouldn’t skip the class 4 rating.

Thanks, some of my old students elected to take an integrated program and I had advised them that they were not immune to the 250 pic requirement. Then I started doubting whether the iATPL veto’d the 250 pic requirement - but I was right the first time.

Meanwhile EASA pilots have no problem flying jets and upgrading to captain with also 250hrs to start but able to get the remaining 400hrs as PICUS. In an airspace magnitude more difficult with specific rules over each country vs the open and simple space of Canada.

The 100 PICUS maximum is archaic and I've said it before, buffalo joe mentality that a pilot needs to "fly up north and work the ramp" because that's what all the boomers had to do

I dunno. I keep thinking colgan air here. You may be right. PICUS is a way for sure. But the thing about PICUS, is it really pilot in command? If you’re just logging PIC cuz you’re with a training captain and the operations manual allows it….. does it actually mean you’re making the difficult decisions? I guess it could. But I also feel like when it hits the fan, then the actual PIC takes over. My .02$

[JungleRiot]

Hiring at mainline is definitely slowing down. They just laid off multiple talent acquisition people.

[PittBoss]

Just accepted the offer for April GS. Super excited.