Updated salary tables 2024

[Caterpillar]

Has anyone been able to reproduce this table below with the new rates around the industry? Updated as of 2024...?

[TurkeyFarmYQX]

Sure, just go to safeflights.ca

A newer one is posted there.

[Grey_Wolf]

Scales aren't up-to-date on the site. (May 2023)

Porter has gone up, while Lynx is still listed; for example

[Inverted2]

Should keep the Swoop table on as a reminder for future reference that someone whored their selves out for less than 100k/yr to fly a 737.

[DanWEC]

Transat's low;
Capt 188k-258k
FO 66k-159K

Renegot in 12 months.

[Canadaflyer46]

Should keep the Swoop table on as a reminder for future reference that someone whored their selves out for less than 100k/yr to fly a 737.

Agreed. Also pretty mind blowing to see a Cargojet pilot is willing captain a widebody for $133 bucks an hour. That pays C$436 an hour at UPS. Actually pathetic.

[cjp]

This needs a complete update.

Porter Captain's start at 190/hr or 171,000 min guarantee of 75 hours on the E2 - just below ACs and Westjet's current 737 rates.
5th year I believe, they blow through the 12 year pay of the 737.

Hopefully AC ALPA can make some serious salary headway and give everyone else some breathing room to move up.

[RippleRock]

This needs a complete update.

Porter Captain's start at 190/hr or 171,000 min guarantee of 75 hours on the E2 - just below ACs and Westjet's current 737 rates.
5th year I believe, they blow through the 12 year pay of the 737.

Hopefully AC ALPA can make some serious salary headway and give everyone else some breathing room to move up.

Any gains, or not at AC, will be for the Membership to wear. If they want egg on their face, so be it.

Given the number of VO whores, I'm not so sure what's going to happen. We could have been done by now, but for their efforts to line their own pockets, we will all be out on strike in October. Thanks.

It's like herding cats. I guess being the "frostbacks" of the north doesn't bother a lot of us. Shameful.


FWIW, We would NEVER see this behavior at Delta or United, so don't hold your breath for a "Delta or United" type gains. I was standing up for the Junior Membership, but judging from how many are on the O/T list, I'm not wasting any more of my time. Good luck.

[yowflyer23]

Let me know if there's any mistakes. Sourced this almost entirely from avcanada and Pilot Career Center. For AC, I couldn't find updated WB scales so I assumed a 2% raise every year from a post in 2022 that had the pay scale at the time. Doesn't include Nav or Overseas pay.

It would be great to compare other aspects of the contracts too like YOS, benefits, etc. as well.

Updated: Westjet 2024 numbers

[cjp]

This needs a complete update.

Porter Captain's start at 190/hr or 171,000 min guarantee of 75 hours on the E2 - just below ACs and Westjet's current 737 rates.
5th year I believe, they blow through the 12 year pay of the 737.

Hopefully AC ALPA can make some serious salary headway and give everyone else some breathing room to move up.

Any gains, or not at AC, will be for the Membership to wear. If they want egg on their face, so be it.

Given the number of VO whores, I'm not so sure what's going to happen. We could have been done by now, but for their efforts to line their own pockets, we will all be out on strike in October. Thanks.

It's like herding cats. I guess being the "frostbacks" of the north doesn't bother a lot of us. Shameful.


FWIW, We would NEVER see this behavior at Delta or United, so don't hold your breath for a "Delta or United" type gains. I was standing up for the Junior Membership, but judging from how many are on the O/T list, I'm not wasting any more of my time. Good luck.

That's disappointing. Are they on O/T while in their first 4 years?

[cjp]

Let me know if there's any mistakes. Sourced this almost entirely from avcanada and Pilot Career Center. For AC, I couldn't find updated WB scales so I assumed a 2% raise every year from a post in 2022 that had the pay scale at the time. Doesn't include Nav or Overseas pay.

It would be great to compare other aspects of the contracts too like YOS, benefits, etc. as well.
CDNpilotpayNB.JPG
CDNpilotpayWB.JPG
CDNpilotpayRegionals.JPG

Thank you for the update, looks good now. Bigger delta than I originally thought for Porter and AC, we got work to do to close that gap a bit.

Cheers.

[braaap Braap]

Thank you for the update, looks good now. Bigger delta than I originally thought for Porter and AC, we got work to do to close that gap a bit.

Cheers.

What sort of work do you propose we do? FOAG gives us 0 ability to pressure/use leverage. We’re along for the ride until the executives decide attrition/recruitment need another boost.

[goingnowherefast]

Sign a card

[Lurch]

Let me know if there's any mistakes.

The WJ rates are from 2023 the 2024 rates are as follows, sorry for the format

Capt 37

205.65
212.62
219.53
226.33
233.12
240.26
247.53
257.52
267.45
277.50
287.40
291.63
297.46

FO 37

84.26
91.31
116.66
124.56
143.21
149.74
155.02
156.67
159.03
161.41

Capt WB

282.55
285.37
288.16
290.98
293.70
296.56
303.02
309.47
315.91
322.36
328.83
335.25

FO WB

84.26
100.24
116.79
125.65
172.92
179.73
186.42
193.28
200.02
201.31
202.59

[RippleRock]

Those wages make me physically ill.

Not one is "outstanding". The are all "meh". Remember how hard you worked to get here, and how "fragile" your career choice is. Simply forgetting eye protection when changing your brakes will end it forever in an instant.

When you factor in the fact that inflation has been around 4% on average for the last 5 years, these numbers look even worse.

A Hawaiian FO on the 321 will eclipse --every wage on that table-- at year 5, and then some.


How about we work on a little self respect before this career gets swept into the dust bin entirely. Start by asking your friend why they aren't supporting the Negotiations Team with a red lanyard and frowning upon "extra work".

Don't underestimate how many other carriers in these tables use AC as their "benchmark". We all depend on AC pilots getting their shit together.

[Canadaflyer46]

Those wages make me physically ill.

Not one is "outstanding". The are all "meh". Remember how hard you worked to get here, and how "fragile" your career choice is. Simply forgetting eye protection when changing your brakes will end it forever in an instant.

When you factor in the fact that inflation has been around 4% on average for the last 5 years, these numbers look even worse.

A Hawaiian FO on the 321 will eclipse --every wage on that table-- at year 5, and then some.


How about we work on a little self respect before this career gets swept into the dust bin entirely. Start by asking your friend why they aren't supporting the Negotiations Team with a red lanyard and frowning upon "extra work".

Don't underestimate how many other carriers in these tables use AC as their "benchmark". We all depend on AC pilots getting their shit together.

As another perspective, an FO at Southwest will eclipse a NB CA at Air Canada in their second year. Truly depressing how bad our flagship airline pays.

[goingnowherefast]

Looks like Porter Q400 captains are due for another benchmark. How is that non-union flexibility working out?

[Upgradeable]

Edited

[yowflyer23]

Let me know if there's any mistakes.

The WJ rates are from 2023 the 2024 rates are as follows, sorry for the format

Thanks. It's updated now.

[JHR]

The unfortunate truth is this...until AC has a really good contract, nobody else will. Those numbers are all garbage. Depressing

[twa22]

Those wages make me physically ill.

Not one is "outstanding". The are all "meh". Remember how hard you worked to get here, and how "fragile" your career choice is. Simply forgetting eye protection when changing your brakes will end it forever in an instant.

When you factor in the fact that inflation has been around 4% on average for the last 5 years, these numbers look even worse.

A Hawaiian FO on the 321 will eclipse --every wage on that table-- at year 5, and then some.


How about we work on a little self respect before this career gets swept into the dust bin entirely. Start by asking your friend why they aren't supporting the Negotiations Team with a red lanyard and frowning upon "extra work".

Don't underestimate how many other carriers in these tables use AC as their "benchmark". We all depend on AC pilots getting their shit together.

Ripple, can you comment on negotiation updates? It's been quiet over in the AC sub in the last little while, and your comment earlier here about VO suggests things aren't looking so bright anymore

[RippleRock]

Those wages make me physically ill.

Not one is "outstanding". The are all "meh". Remember how hard you worked to get here, and how "fragile" your career choice is. Simply forgetting eye protection when changing your brakes will end it forever in an instant.

When you factor in the fact that inflation has been around 4% on average for the last 5 years, these numbers look even worse.

A Hawaiian FO on the 321 will eclipse --every wage on that table-- at year 5, and then some.


How about we work on a little self respect before this career gets swept into the dust bin entirely. Start by asking your friend why they aren't supporting the Negotiations Team with a red lanyard and frowning upon "extra work".

Don't underestimate how many other carriers in these tables use AC as their "benchmark". We all depend on AC pilots getting their shit together.

Ripple, can you comment on negotiation updates? It's been quiet over in the AC sub in the last little while, and your comment earlier here about VO suggests things aren't looking so bright anymore

They are dragging.

Only 30% of the Articles have even been looked at thoroughly or are tentatively agreed to. As the Articles get more critical, or costly, the foot dragging will get worse. The Company is far apart on some Articles, that's without even touching the hard stuff like pay provisions. That will be the show stopper. I think there is just enough being done that Kaplan's alarm bells aren't going off....but barely. This is part of the "drag it out" strategy. The longer this goes, the longer you don't see any gains and the longer they don't have to pay them. Don't count on retro as it is never garanteed.

We have our own serious issues outside the negotiating room. We can't seem to act like a single cohesive entity, and it's being noticed by the other side. The amount of VO that's being done is drastically lowering the sense of "urgency" to get us a deal. There is no shortage of those doing VO, so their summer is protected. It's a bit stunning actually. There is a huge raise and far better working conditions for everyone at the end of this, yet the VO hogs are getting a "hall pass" from the rest of us, while making themselves rich. They are forcing the rest of us to wait indefinitely for the contract and corresponding raise that we all deserve, and have been waiting sooo long for. Never underestimate another pilots greed. They are literally taking money out of other pilots pockets while they force you to wait. {my opinion only}

The biggest culprits are those senior (not the red lanyard guys and gals) who just don't give a crap about what they've let happen to the contract over the last two decades. The contract they passed on to you is apparently your problem, and they aren't prepared to lift a finger to help you younger pilots fix it. It's all about them, which has been our problem right from the start. We have always had a subset of pilots who's own self interest usurped unity and the wellbeing of of the group as a whole. They're easy to spot, especially around the neck area.

Anyway, this will finally come to a head after summer. I'm betting October, when the Company locks us all out. I'm betting the are counting on us breaking after a week, maybe 10 days, but they will likely be prepared to keep us out for three. That two week period in between the first and third will absolutely determine what our next contract looks like. Prepare for minimum a month, maybe slightly longer, and we will be successful.

My bet is if VO or sliding GDO's stopped completely tomorrow, we would have a full WC offer tabled by May 1st.

This is all just my opinion which isn't worth anything, so take it with a grain of salt.

[RippleRock]

[

[thepoors]

Those wages make me physically ill.

Not one is "outstanding". The are all "meh". Remember how hard you worked to get here, and how "fragile" your career choice is. Simply forgetting eye protection when changing your brakes will end it forever in an instant.

When you factor in the fact that inflation has been around 4% on average for the last 5 years, these numbers look even worse.

A Hawaiian FO on the 321 will eclipse --every wage on that table-- at year 5, and then some.


How about we work on a little self respect before this career gets swept into the dust bin entirely. Start by asking your friend why they aren't supporting the Negotiations Team with a red lanyard and frowning upon "extra work".

Don't underestimate how many other carriers in these tables use AC as their "benchmark". We all depend on AC pilots getting their shit together.

Ripple, can you comment on negotiation updates? It's been quiet over in the AC sub in the last little while, and your comment earlier here about VO suggests things aren't looking so bright anymore

They are dragging.

Only 30% of the Articles have even been looked at thoroughly or are tentatively agreed to. As the Articles get more critical, or costly, the foot dragging will get worse. The Company is far apart on some Articles, that's without even touching the hard stuff like pay provisions. That will be the show stopper. I think there is just enough being done that Kaplan's alarm bells aren't going off....but barely. This is part of the "drag it out" strategy. The longer this goes, the longer you don't see any gains and the longer they don't have to pay them. Don't count on retro as it is never garanteed.

We have our own serious issues outside the negotiating room. We can't seem to act like a single cohesive entity, and it's being noticed by the other side. The amount of VO that's being done is drastically lowering the sense of "urgency" to get us a deal. There is no shortage of those doing VO, so their summer is protected. It's a bit stunning actually. There is a huge raise and far better working conditions for everyone at the end of this, yet the VO hogs are getting a "hall pass" from the rest of us, while making themselves rich. They are forcing the rest of us to wait indefinitely for the contract and corresponding raise that we all deserve, and have been waiting sooo long for. Never underestimate another pilots greed. They are literally taking money out of other pilots pockets while they force you to wait. {my opinion only}

The biggest culprits are those senior (not the red lanyard guys and gals) who just don't give a crap about what they've let happen to the contract over the last two decades. The contract they passed on to you is apparently your problem, and they aren't prepared to lift a finger to help you younger pilots fix it. It's all about them, which has been our problem right from the start. We have always had a subset of pilots who's own self interest usurped unity and the wellbeing of of the group as a whole. They're easy to spot, especially around the neck area.

Anyway, this will finally come to a head after summer. I'm betting October, when the Company locks us all out. I'm betting the are counting on us breaking after a week, maybe 10 days, but they will likely be prepared to keep us out for three. That two week period in between the first and third will absolutely determine what our next contract looks like. Prepare for minimum a month, maybe slightly longer, and we will be successful.

My bet is if VO or sliding GDO's stopped completely tomorrow, we would have a full WC offer tabled by May 1st.

This is all just my opinion which isn't worth anything, so take it with a grain of salt.

Funny that those on flat pay are likely barely making ends meet or are putting their lives on hold, and yet it's the fat f***ks at the top who can't stop padding their pockets with overtime. The entitlement of that disgusting generation is mind boggling.

[twa22]

Those wages make me physically ill.

Not one is "outstanding". The are all "meh". Remember how hard you worked to get here, and how "fragile" your career choice is. Simply forgetting eye protection when changing your brakes will end it forever in an instant.

When you factor in the fact that inflation has been around 4% on average for the last 5 years, these numbers look even worse.

A Hawaiian FO on the 321 will eclipse --every wage on that table-- at year 5, and then some.


How about we work on a little self respect before this career gets swept into the dust bin entirely. Start by asking your friend why they aren't supporting the Negotiations Team with a red lanyard and frowning upon "extra work".

Don't underestimate how many other carriers in these tables use AC as their "benchmark". We all depend on AC pilots getting their shit together.

Ripple, can you comment on negotiation updates? It's been quiet over in the AC sub in the last little while, and your comment earlier here about VO suggests things aren't looking so bright anymore

They are dragging.

Only 30% of the Articles have even been looked at thoroughly or are tentatively agreed to. As the Articles get more critical, or costly, the foot dragging will get worse. The Company is far apart on some Articles, that's without even touching the hard stuff like pay provisions. That will be the show stopper. I think there is just enough being done that Kaplan's alarm bells aren't going off....but barely. This is part of the "drag it out" strategy. The longer this goes, the longer you don't see any gains and the longer they don't have to pay them. Don't count on retro as it is never garanteed.

We have our own serious issues outside the negotiating room. We can't seem to act like a single cohesive entity, and it's being noticed by the other side. The amount of VO that's being done is drastically lowering the sense of "urgency" to get us a deal. There is no shortage of those doing VO, so their summer is protected. It's a bit stunning actually. There is a huge raise and far better working conditions for everyone at the end of this, yet the VO hogs are getting a "hall pass" from the rest of us, while making themselves rich. They are forcing the rest of us to wait indefinitely for the contract and corresponding raise that we all deserve, and have been waiting sooo long for. Never underestimate another pilots greed. They are literally taking money out of other pilots pockets while they force you to wait. {my opinion only}

The biggest culprits are those senior (not the red lanyard guys and gals) who just don't give a crap about what they've let happen to the contract over the last two decades. The contract they passed on to you is apparently your problem, and they aren't prepared to lift a finger to help you younger pilots fix it. It's all about them, which has been our problem right from the start. We have always had a subset of pilots who's own self interest usurped unity and the wellbeing of of the group as a whole. They're easy to spot, especially around the neck area.

Anyway, this will finally come to a head after summer. I'm betting October, when the Company locks us all out. I'm betting the are counting on us breaking after a week, maybe 10 days, but they will likely be prepared to keep us out for three. That two week period in between the first and third will absolutely determine what our next contract looks like. Prepare for minimum a month, maybe slightly longer, and we will be successful.

My bet is if VO or sliding GDO's stopped completely tomorrow, we would have a full WC offer tabled by May 1st.

This is all just my opinion which isn't worth anything, so take it with a grain of salt.

Thanks for the thorough and insightful response Ripple. I'm disheartened to hear that the same old song of VO by those at the top continues to go on, but I can't say i'm surprised. I really appreciate those who do consider the younger generation of pilots, and i'm sure like others, we are eagerly waiting and still hoping you can make some form of substantial gains. Even if it won't mirror what our US counterparts got, hopefully it's at least somewhat close to that