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philaviate wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 11:27 am I always hear, and understood, that to remain current for a group 1 instrument rating the 6/6/6 must be done in a multi engine airplane. But where does this come from?

According to CAR 401.05

3.1) No holder of a Canadian pilot licence endorsed with an instrument rating or to which is attached instrument rating privileges shall exercise the privileges of the instrument rating unless, following the first day of the 13th month after the completion date of a test referred to in subsection (3) and within six months before the flight, the holder has

(a) acquired six hours of instrument time; and

(b) completed six instrument approaches in an aircraft in actual or simulated instrument meteorological conditions, or in a Level B, C or D simulator or an approved flight training device configured for the same category as the aircraft

(i) under the supervision of a person who holds the qualifications referred to in subsection 425.21(9) of Standard 425 — Flight Training, or

(ii) while acting as a flight instructor conducting training in respect of the endorsement of a flight crew licence or permit with an instrument rating.

(3.2) The holder of a Canadian pilot licence endorsed with an instrument rating or to which is attached instrument rating privileges shall retain a record of having met the applicable recency requirement set out in subsection (3) or (3.1) for three years.

So it says you must do the approaches in a real aircraft, or sim, that is the same category. But category just means Airplane, vs Helicopter etc.

It doesn't mention class. Class is multi, vs single etc.The accompanying instructor part only applies to the SIM part right? So flying real IFR solo is fine and no instructor needed.

So as a holder of a group 1 IR, if I'm flying a single in IFR flights, and IMC conditions, doing approaches, meeting the 6/6/6 rule, why doesn't that count? Or does it?
Can someone give me the idiot's guide please?

Also an IPC for group 1 must be done in a multi right?
Thank you

Yes you can do the 6/6/6 in a single engine aircraft. No the instructor part doesn’t only apply to a sim or ftd. Yes a group 1 ipc has to be done in a multi.

(3.1) No holder of a Canadian pilot licence endorsed with an instrument rating or to which is attached instrument rating privileges shall exercise the privileges of the instrument rating unless, following the first day of the 13th month after the completion date of a test referred to in subsection (3) and within six months before the flight, the holder has

(a) acquired six hours of instrument time; and

(b) completed six instrument approaches in an aircraft in actual or simulated instrument meteorological conditions, or in a Level B, C or D simulator or an approved flight training device configured for the same category as the aircraft
...
(ii) while acting as a flight instructor conducting training in respect of the endorsement of a flight crew licence or permit with an instrument rating.

If you write it out as one sentence it reads, "...the holder has completed six instrument approaches in an aircraft in actual or simulated instrument meteorological conditions, or in a Level B, C or D simulator or an approved flight training device configured for the same category as the aircraft while acting as a flight instructor conducting training in respect of the endorsement of a flight crew licence or permit with an instrument rating.

The way I've understood this is if you are an instructor in the simulator, you are not the one completing the approaches and cannot log the instrument time or approaches (since it says "...the holder has completed..."). That's obviously just an interpretation I've made though, so I'd be interested if someone has more specific guidance from TC or otherwise.

Nonetheless, I understand it as if you are an instructor completing simulated IFR approaches in an airplane in VMC (so not filed IFR, and student is under the hood), the instructor can still log that towards the 6 instrument approaches.

Edit for further clarity:
It also doesn't say that you have to have an instructor with you in the sim/ftd to do the approaches. Say you worked at a flight school/sim centre and had access to a ftd/sim. You could, for the purposes of the CARs, turn on the sim, set yourself up for an approach, fly the approach (or 6 if you really wanted to), shut down the sim, and be on your merry way with the approaches logged in your logbook.

Thank you both, that was my understanding too, but not the line many of the local instructors held when explaining it.

I also felt they were interpreting it incorrectly, but as I was doing my group 1 IFR in a multi it didn't really matter. But now for maintaining currency it does as I'm not flying a multi in IFR at present.

Aviatard wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 9:52 pm

philaviate wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 11:27 am I always hear, and understood, that to remain current for a group 1 instrument rating the 6/6/6 must be done in a multi engine airplane. But where does this come from?

According to CAR 401.05

3.1) No holder of a Canadian pilot licence endorsed with an instrument rating or to which is attached instrument rating privileges shall exercise the privileges of the instrument rating unless, following the first day of the 13th month after the completion date of a test referred to in subsection (3) and within six months before the flight, the holder has

(a) acquired six hours of instrument time; and

(b) completed six instrument approaches in an aircraft in actual or simulated instrument meteorological conditions, or in a Level B, C or D simulator or an approved flight training device configured for the same category as the aircraft

(i) under the supervision of a person who holds the qualifications referred to in subsection 425.21(9) of Standard 425 — Flight Training, or

(ii) while acting as a flight instructor conducting training in respect of the endorsement of a flight crew licence or permit with an instrument rating.

(3.2) The holder of a Canadian pilot licence endorsed with an instrument rating or to which is attached instrument rating privileges shall retain a record of having met the applicable recency requirement set out in subsection (3) or (3.1) for three years.

So it says you must do the approaches in a real aircraft, or sim, that is the same category. But category just means Airplane, vs Helicopter etc.

It doesn't mention class. Class is multi, vs single etc.The accompanying instructor part only applies to the SIM part right? So flying real IFR solo is fine and no instructor needed.

So as a holder of a group 1 IR, if I'm flying a single in IFR flights, and IMC conditions, doing approaches, meeting the 6/6/6 rule, why doesn't that count? Or does it?
Can someone give me the idiot's guide please?

Also an IPC for group 1 must be done in a multi right?
Thank you

Yes you can do the 6/6/6 in a single engine aircraft. Yes the instructor part only applies to a sim or ftd. Yes a group 1 ipc has to be done in a multi.

Where does it say the instructor part only applies to a Sim or FTD?

It's says (b) approaches in aircraft OR sim OR FTD

Then

(i) OR (ii)

If an instructor was doing approaches with a student in an actual aircraft those approaches would count for the instructors currency? Are you saying they don't?

khedrei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:54 pm
Where does it say the instructor part only applies to a Sim or FTD?

It's says (b) approaches in aircraft OR sim OR FTD

Then

(i) OR (ii)

If an instructor was doing approaches with a student in an actual aircraft those approaches would count for the instructors currency? Are you saying they don't?

Good catch. Yes you are correct. I read the regulation wrong. I have corrected my post.