Financial concerns.

Broke · Post by **Broke** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:13 pm

Well, I've found myself in the position that countless others have found themselves in throughout the history of aviation.

Finished flight training, and have about 45,000 dollars worth of debt.
This is a choice that I made, and I realize I must live with it. That's fine, and I have no problem living up to my responsibility of paying it back.

But......how?
I managed to get a first job in the industry (instructing) - which I am thrilled about. I am also working a second job, but am still having trouble paying the bills.
I am extremely lucky in that I have managed to stay single and childless, so I imagine that is something which is working in my favour.

Basically what I'm looking for is suggestions on how I can make a living when I'm expected to be at the airport 24/7, only getting paid for a fraction of it.
As I said, I'm working a second job - but still can't quite make ends meet.
I have cut ALL "unnecessary" expenses out of my life, so there is nothing else I can do there.

What did you do to get by?
What do people you know do? Side-business? Is there something I could be doing at the airport to make money when I'm sitting in between flights?
There has to be SOMETHING?!?

Thanks a lot for any help.

Geoff W.

twinpratts · Post by **twinpratts** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:27 pm

Congrats on the first job! You're already ahead of many others. It's a tough go, as you've already found out. This industry has a way of weeding out those who don't want it enough, and only the deturmined will make it. It's not easy... (I got my private 12 yrs ago, and still make less than 40K/yr). But I couldn't think of doing anything else.
Best of luck.

... · Post by **...** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:27 pm

open an internet biz.

chiefpilot · Post by **chiefpilot** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:52 pm

Broke;

Hang in there man/woman/buddy;

We all have been there, I did not instruct, but many of my pilots have, they all have a certain way about them after instructing, this is why many of them are training pilots, even the First O's, who better to train a new hire than a person who holds that current position and has instructed adult students.

My advice.....stay with it and netwotk....network....network, as much as you can, with who ever you can.

Remember, the student you have today, maybe the boss you have tomorrow.

I realise it is the hardest times (financially) you may be facing in your life time but, If there is anything else you would rather be doing, you would be doing it!!. so stick with it, work two jobs if you have to.......you will thank yourself in the end, nothing hurts a person more than the statement "WHAT IF". if you try and fail, there will never be an empty space in your life. I believe it was put more eloquently by NIKE, "JUST DO IT".

CP.

scubasteve · Post by **scubasteve** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:25 pm

sometimes you just have to jump off the bridge and learn to fly on the way down.

I am in a similar situation except that I've held off finishing my training for financial reasons but now I have to find some way of financing the rest while paying off the loans I have already. Sitting at a desk makes it hard to do, but the payoff is when you're behind the controls looking down on your house, or tent in the woods, or rusted out truck, etc. consider your time as an instructor as continuing your investment. Hopefully the returns will come soon.

As someone else mentioned, that first job, tho a rough go is a step ahead of many other pilots, myself included. Good luck

DC6driver · Post by **DC6driver** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:33 pm

in case you are paying off your student loan (if thats what you have)....

there is a "poverty line" so to speak, if you make below a certain amount of money per month, you fill out a form, give a copy of your pay stub, and your student loan is held off from you and the government pays the interest.

Lots of us were on that.

scubasteve · Post by **scubasteve** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:13 pm

That doesnt count if the government or some lackey decides that your parents make too much money and yet cant seem to help you pay tuition so you have to get lines of credit and requiring you to take two jobs while a full time university student and student pilot just so you can make the interest payments...or here's a kicker...taking money from your line of credit to pay the interest on your line of credit.

I dont know if anyone can relate to this story but I'm sure some of you can appreciate this.

I was denied government loans for the first 2 years of university and received $6500 for my third year...that wasn't enough to cover my costs but still very nice. When I was turned down for assistance the following year I went to talk to a financial aid counselor. These people have no clue. I was told that my parents made too much money (not enough to help me out tho and less than the parents of other kids who received loans) so I asked why I got money the year before considering nothing had changed. The lady looked at my file and determined that there had been a mistake and I wasn't supposed to get that money. She made it seem like I would have to pay back the $6500 right away and then said that every one is allowed one mistake. Bottom line, she told me that I couldn't get any assistance and then asked if I had considered a student line of credit. When I told her that I indeed had one that was sitting at $36000 (would have been $48k or more if I had done the 4th year of the program) her jaw dropped and she was speechless. Its about time the people in charge of our education system realize the real cost and struggles that students face in this country.

Sorry but there is an election coming up and this topic especially sets my blood to boil. The world is run by those who show up. If the people lead the leaders will follow.

yycflyguy · Post by **yycflyguy** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:07 am

I was denied interest relief from my aviation student loans (2 years previous) while I was attending University because they decided that if you take 2 courses at the University, 1 course at the community college and attended part time instructor ground school, you were only a "part-time" student that doesn't qualify for interest relief. Seems I needed to take at least 3 courses at either the community college or the university but not simultaneously. This pearl of wisdom took them 8 months to figure out and when they did, they informed me that I owed for the 8 months it took them to figure it out plus this months payment. Uhm, hello? Didn't I just tell you that I am on a diet of Ramon noodles and water??? When I asked who I could appeal to I was told that all appeals go through the same person that denied my request. WTF, over.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:33 am

Good luck with your choice of occupation. You are obviously brain damaged....or were dropped on your head as a child...like everybody else in this business!!! I wish there was an easy answer to your plight, but in fact, there isn't. As CP put it..."network".
Or put on a tight miniskirt and hit the street corner...it's a joke kids! And, of course, with a comment like that, I'm praying you're a guy! LOL
It looks bleak right now.....but the sun always comes up tomorrow!

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:44 am

Congrats on the first job. I was in a similar situation six years ago. I paid the bills cleaning cars at the airport Budget Rent a Car. I still remember the polyester pants and clip on tie. Anyways, it paid a bit of money, but let me stay at the airport so I could hopefully network with pilots from other company's. At that time, I had to live off $800/mo. (And I wasn't living at home)

Broke · Post by **Broke** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 5:12 am

Thanks for the tips and advice, everyone.
I realized it wasn't going to be easy - but nothing worthwhile in life is easy. I guess I'll just have to take each day as it comes - and eat lots of KD and rice.

Thanks for the motivation.

Geoff

hz2p · Post by **hz2p** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:27 am

There are two sayings in aviation that any prospective pilot should keep in mind:

1) "Time to spare, go by air"

2) "If you've got the money, you've got the job, honey!"

Mario · Post by **Mario** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:43 am

I recieved interest relief for the full 30 month term...I was never asked about my parents income for repayment purposes...they take the amount you are supposed to owe each month and the amount of income you recieve on paper (from your paystubs) if you are within the lines on the chart...you're in. Not sure exactly what the amounts are today but a few years ago if you owed say, $500/month in loan payments, you were allowed to make close to $1200/month on paper. You have to keep re-applying every 6 months though even if you are approved the first round. The following is from their website...

Interest Relief

Should your income fall below a certain level, you may be eligible for Interest Relief. While you are receiving Interest Relief, the Government of Canada pays the interest on your Canada Student Loan and you are not required to make any payments on your loan.

Interest Relief is normally approved for six-month periods, up to a maximum of 30 months, throughout the lifetime of your loan.

To apply, you must:

Be living in Canada or be on an international internship;

Have signed a Consolidated Student Loan Agreement;

Not have already received Interest Relief for the maximum period allowed (30 months); and

Ensure your student loans are in good standing at your financial institution and/or the National Student Loans Service Centre.
good luck, even if it's a long shot for your situation...it's always worth it.

Broke · Post by **Broke** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:37 am

Mario-

Thanks for the info. Any idea if this plan applies to independent bank loans, or if it's only for people with debt through the Canada Student Loan program?

Also - do you have a link for the website you got that info from?
I can't seem to find it through yahoo.

Thanks!

Mario · Post by **Mario** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 2:58 pm

If you have personal loans from the bank this exact information would not apply...however if they are actual student loans that you recieved from a bank (this is how student loans were handed out proir to august/99 or 2000 I believe) the same info applies. The best thing to do is contact your bank and ask them what you can do...you never know, they may have programs designed for special situations that they don't always advertise.

http://www.canlearn.ca/nslsc/index.cfm?langnslsc=en

Broke · Post by **Broke** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:47 pm

Mario - much appreciated!

slowstream · Post by **slowstream** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:30 pm

Hey Broke,

Chief Pilot is right, stay with it.

I did the instructing route with a divorce at the same time + new wife and little ones that were on the way. While divorced, single and instructing you can get a box of KD to last two days. Mario is also right, I find that a great many people do not ask what others like banks, gov or other agencies can do to help...................all you need do is ASK, ASK & ASK. Also given the current state of our economy there is also a great deal stores that sell second hand stuff there are also food banks and don't be shy about that one believe me getting a box of KD lasting two days is hard.

Lastly, NETWORK, NETWORK & NETWORK

Good luck!

Captain X · Post by **Captain X** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:59 pm

I had to leave my job today aerial photography, I can't makes ends meet and I can't work a second job like some, I have TOO MUCH DEBT I have to work manual labour for $$ to make ends meet, needles to say my boss was angry, but what can I do, make him happy and go into personal bankruptcy or keep my head above water and ruffle some feathers, needless to say he said he won't give me a reference, which i don't understand, but it will all work out in the end.... i hope

N2 · Post by N2 » Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:11 pm

Captain X, you have to look out for number one first and foremost! You can be sure if the shoe was on the other foot they would be looking out for their interests before yours.

Jimmy · Post by **Jimmy** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:52 pm

Jimmy sees there are lots of people feeling sorry for themselves in aviation. Truth is, it's the easiest job in the world and we're all over paid. I know Jimmy is.

James has a diferent sort of take on the network, network, network angle. That's pick a company where you know you'll fit in, and bug them, bug them, bug them. If you're a worker, go up north and find a blue collar job like Jimmy did, or if you're a city boy and want to wear a shirt and tie pester some of them there medevac outfits and so forth in the south.

In any case, best of luck to you. Jimmy did a couple years at the intructing too, and knows the pay ain't no picnic. Don't let the frustration get to you. It's not forever and beats working for a living.

just another pilot · Post by **just another pilot** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:52 am

Jimmy needs to break the pills in half...

FL410 · Post by **FL410** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:00 am

CLguy · Post by **CLguy** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:23 am

HUH!!! Jimmy you need some time off!!