Flight attendants are only paid when the plane is in motion.

[TCAS II]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/flight ... -1.7220150

I wonder if this is something being looked at for the pilots.

[fish4life]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/flight ... -1.7220150

I wonder if this is something being looked at for the pilots.

If I’m Air Canada tomorrow I’m going to the union and taking the annual salary of the FA’s dividing it by 2080 hours and giving them that as an hourly rate and paying them for every hour on duty.

[yvrgoods]

Bingo.

I don’t think they realize the Pandora’s box they’re opening here.

[RippleRock]

Bingo.

I don’t think they realize the Pandora’s box they’re opening here.

Exactly. They open it, they can deal with what comes out.

They need to look at their "total compensation package". We in aviation that work from "brake off to brake on" aren't really "hourly workers".

[RippleRock]

Bingo.

I don’t think they realize the Pandora’s box they’re opening here.

Exactly. They open it, they can deal with what comes out.

They need to look at their "total compensation package". We in aviation that work from "brake off to brake on" aren't really "hourly workers".

[goingnowherefast]

Brake off to brake on + 75 minutes (or whatever time they decide). Probably should vary with type, a CS300 boards and deplanes faster than a 777.

Would that be more reasonable?

[Donald]

When you are hired, you are shown the payscale (annual salary), and duties required.

You accepted employment on that basis.

Has the airline broken either of those commitments?

If you need more money, then by all means negotiate a raise. I think we all need more money these days. However, this tactic of "unpaid work won't fly" might result in the FA group being paid a lower hourly salary over more hours. And that lower hourly rate could impact things like their OT rate.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Brake off to brake on + 75 minutes (or whatever time they decide). Probably should vary with type, a CS300 boards and deplanes faster than a 777.

Would that be more reasonable?

Too complicated for cookie pushers

[itsgrosswhatinet]

Are we sure their hourly wage for total time away from base wouldn't be below minimum wage? I saw 40 hour weeks assumed above. It's probably more like 75-80 hours per week they are away from home.

[yvrgoods]

Are we sure their hourly wage for total time away from base wouldn't be below minimum wage? I saw 40 hour weeks assumed above. It's probably more like 75-80 hours per week they are away from home.

That’s not how it works

[CaptDukeNukem]

Yea. I don’t think TAFB counts as on duty.

[yvrgoods]

FAs already have way better top ups than pilots. They need to stop complaining, and just try to negotiate a higher rate (they aren't up for contract until next year).

For example if they don't get min contract rest on layover (fall below 10 hours I think) then they get total duty from check in on day one to check out on day two minus 4 hours. Which can be insane pay top ups vs what they were originally blocked for, it's why so many FAs always ask for us to taxi slow and stuff. Even one minute delayed into their layover can trigger this massive pay claim. They know how to play the system.

[Fanblade]

In aviation our wages are pretty much double a normal hourly worker to make up for the time we work with no pay at all. A normal work month is 160 hours. We work full time at 80 flight hours. So our hourly wage is double.

If you cut your hourly pay in half that is pretty much a direct comparison to a normal hourly worker.

If you make $200/hour it’s really a $100/hour. If you make $50/hour it’s really comparable at $25.

A new FA makes $22-$23/hour. You cut that in half and it’s $11-$12/hour. Below minimum wage. Yet it’s not below minimum wage because the official hourly rate is $22-$23.

The company is taking advantage of them. The pay system is failing them.

How the FA’s deal with it is up to them. I would be inclined to stick with the current system and fix it. They appear instead to have decided to go after unpaid work as a strategy.

But I doubt anyone who understands the pay system would argue that below minimum wage is acceptable. Part of the problem is I don’t think they understand their own system.

[itsgrosswhatinet]

A new FA makes $22-$23/hour. You cut that in half and it’s $11-$12/hour. Below minimum wage. Yet it’s not below minimum wage because the official hourly rate is $22-$23.

The company is taking advantage of them. The pay system is failing them.

I thought so. Good on them for trying for a raise. I'm concerned how many comments were negative against other workers. This doesn't bode well for outside support of our own negotiations.

[Fanblade]

A new FA makes $22-$23/hour. You cut that in half and it’s $11-$12/hour. Below minimum wage. Yet it’s not below minimum wage because the official hourly rate is $22-$23.

The company is taking advantage of them. The pay system is failing them.

I thought so. Good on them for trying for a raise. I'm concerned how many comments were negative against other workers. This doesn't bode well for outside support of our own negotiations.

No it's not helping them but ignore it and don't follow suit.

Most of the AC unions have forgotten how to be a union.

We can lead by example

[newlygrounded]

When you are hired, you are shown the payscale (annual salary), and duties required.

You accepted employment on that basis.

Has the airline broken either of those commitments?

If you need more money, then by all means negotiate a raise. I think we all need more money these days. However, this tactic of "unpaid work won't fly" might result in the FA group being paid a lower hourly salary over more hours. And that lower hourly rate could impact things like their OT rate.

By that logic minimum wage shouldn't exist

[newlygrounded]

Brake off to brake on + 75 minutes (or whatever time they decide). Probably should vary with type, a CS300 boards and deplanes faster than a 777.

Would that be more reasonable?

Too complicated for cookie pushers

Why is it so hard to act like a professional?

[TalkingPie]

There's quite a bit to unpack here, not the least of which being the terrible attitude of a minority of pilots towards their coworkers.

I'm of the opinion that the safest way to increase pay would be to leave the longstanding hour credit system in place and just raise the hourly rates. Developing a whole new pay structure would be incredibly complicated and would leave the door open for management to stack the deck in its favour. That said, the current "pay for boarding" campaign is making headlines and getting attention in political circles. Putting pressure on management in this way prior to negotiations is probably no bad thing!

It should also be pointed out that management dug this hole by whittling pay credit hours down so low that this is no longer a financially viable job for new hires. It's normal that people will clamour for change at this point. As others have said, management is abusing the system to effectively pay less than minimum wage. Most people look at their pay at the end of the month, and if the figure is acceptable to them, they won't stress much about the whys and wherefores of how that number was calculated. But if they feel screwed over, you'll get what is currently happening.

There's also an element of dishonesty in how the company advertises the pay. Pilots, having gone through training, made their way through the ranks of the first, second, and maybe third flying jobs before making it to a 705. By that time, they've most likely been informed about how how the flight credit hour system works. 18 year old flight attendants who see "$29/hour, training is paid at a lower rate" on the Air Canada job site might not have the context required to realize how bad a deal that is. By the time they're made aware, they're often already committed into training. Employees' fault for not researching and knowing better? Maybe, but as a company, having many of your new employees feeling duped isn't a great look.

[Donald]

When you are hired, you are shown the payscale (annual salary), and duties required.

You accepted employment on that basis.

Has the airline broken either of those commitments?

If you need more money, then by all means negotiate a raise. I think we all need more money these days. However, this tactic of "unpaid work won't fly" might result in the FA group being paid a lower hourly salary over more hours. And that lower hourly rate could impact things like their OT rate.

By that logic minimum wage shouldn't exist

Are FA's paid an hourly wage, or a monthly salary?

[Me262]

When you are hired, you are shown the payscale (annual salary), and duties required.

You accepted employment on that basis.

Has the airline broken either of those commitments?

If you need more money, then by all means negotiate a raise. I think we all need more money these days. However, this tactic of "unpaid work won't fly" might result in the FA group being paid a lower hourly salary over more hours. And that lower hourly rate could impact things like their OT rate.

By that logic minimum wage shouldn't exist

Are FA's paid an hourly wage, or a monthly salary?

And are they also paid from brakes off / brakes on like us or a different start/end?

[Donald]

By that logic minimum wage shouldn't exist

Are FA's paid an hourly wage, or a monthly salary?

And are they also paid from brakes off / brakes on like us or a different start/end?

Not sure about you, but I'm paid a MMG.

[Me262]

Are FA's paid an hourly wage, or a monthly salary?

And are they also paid from brakes off / brakes on like us or a different start/end?

Not sure about you, but I'm paid a MMG.

You have a MMG but you get paid x amount of credits a day when you work, with a minimum for each of those days most likely. If you work more than the minimum, that's extra money in your pocket.

[itsgrosswhatinet]

The minimum wage is very important. Even in modern times slavery would be morally justifiable by MBA sociopaths.

[newlygrounded]

The minimum wage is very important. Even in modern times slavery would be morally justifiable by MBA sociopaths.

This is why I think the argument of "they know what they signed" doesn't entirely hold water. There is a reason you can't waive away your workers rights, because the employers have so much more leverage

[NEBOJSA]

Is this a Air Canada thing or is this industry wide.