Just curious if Encore pilots feel any shame on a shameless collapse with one of the most embarrassing messages from a pilot union, possibly ever

The sky was falling during a historic opportunity and locked themselves into a 5 yrs deal

Are these pilots now going to just let other pilots groups do the Lion's share of the work and jump on those coat tails by submitting applications when this happens?

If I were other airlines, they would be at the top of my list for hiring - they have shown they are giant bunch of push overs. A company's dream!

ShillBill wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:07 am Just curious if Encore pilots feel any shame on a shameless collapse with one of the most embarrassing messages from a pilot union, possibly ever

The sky was falling during a historic opportunity and locked themselves into a 5 yrs deal

Are these pilots now going to just let other pilots groups do the Lion's share of the work and jump on those coat tails by submitting applications when this happens?

If I were other airlines, they would be at the top of my list for hiring - they have shown they are giant bunch of push overs. A company's dream!

Jesus! This has been beaten to death, Encore pilots had to weight the odds of a CEO who has a history of literally closing a similar operation, was he bluffing. We’ll never know for sure!
Imagine for a second, you’ve invested a bunch of time and you’re on a list with seniority at the mainline company, you roll the dice and he’s not bluffing, now you’ve lost your job and your spot on WJ’s list and you’re starting over on the bottom of someone else’s list at shitty pay.
I can say with a reasonable amount of confidence that most of the no votes were from the pilots hired after the one list closed to new hires, they had nothing to lose.
If you don’t get that, you’re a little dense there buddy!
FYI, the mainline carries in the US created the situation where the regional affiliates had to raise the pay, not the other way around!

No skin in the game, but why bother posting this? Pretty pointless.

PostmasterGeneral wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 11:17 am No skin in the game, but why bother posting this? Pretty pointless.

Honest questions...

Do pilots in Canada think other bargaining outcomes don't have an impact on each other?

Pattern Bargaining doesn't exist for pilots in this country?

Are CEOs shutting down airlines over pilot wages in this country? Can someone point to where this has ever happened ever?

Are pilots always going to vote yes forever now because they need to worry about their airline shutting down if they vote "No"?

So all Airlines now have to do is threaten to shutdown and all the Senior pilots will vote yes?

Pilots struggling to negotiate big gains in this country during good times...

Imagine how they did during bad times...

FelixGustof wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 11:58 am

PostmasterGeneral wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 11:17 am No skin in the game, but why bother posting this? Pretty pointless.

Honest questions...

Do pilots in Canada think other bargaining outcomes don't have an impact on each other?

Pattern Bargaining doesn't exist for pilots in this country?

Are CEOs shutting down airlines over pilot wages in this country? Can someone point to where this has ever happened ever?

Are pilots always going to vote yes forever now because they need to worry about their airline shutting down if they vote "No"?

So all Airlines now have to do is threaten to shutdown and all the Senior pilots will vote yes?

Jazz and encore could shutdown yes thanks to AC and WJ. Others probably not and definitely not the mainlines including porter.

Encore is hemorrhaging experienced pilots at a great rate of knots. In response they are working their Captains like third world donkeys, which is exacerbating the problem with Captains voting with their feet. Virtually none of the new hires are upgradable any time soon so something has to change.

Either Encore management allows the operation to continue shrinking to match staffing until it is gone or management coughs up an unsolicited significant boost in pay to keep Captains, just like Flair did.

Which scenario plays out is dependent on both internal and external forces. There may be an internal decision that Encore is more trouble than it’s worth resulting in a plan for an orderly shutdown.

External forces include whether or not there is a significant economic downturn, whether Flair fails and creates an overnight new supply of pilots and Porters growth rate and hence their hiring rate. AC hiring in the next year and half is also a major factor as it looks like it is slowing down. On the other hand they are still growing their fleet so that has to drive some demand for new hires.

Interesting times….

Me262 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 1:06 pm

FelixGustof wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 11:58 am

PostmasterGeneral wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 11:17 am No skin in the game, but why bother posting this? Pretty pointless.

Honest questions...

Do pilots in Canada think other bargaining outcomes don't have an impact on each other?

Pattern Bargaining doesn't exist for pilots in this country?

Are CEOs shutting down airlines over pilot wages in this country? Can someone point to where this has ever happened ever?

Are pilots always going to vote yes forever now because they need to worry about their airline shutting down if they vote "No"?

So all Airlines now have to do is threaten to shutdown and all the Senior pilots will vote yes?

Jazz and encore could shutdown yes thanks to AC and WJ. Others probably not and definitely not the mainlines including porter.

Crazy...B737s & A220s flying into

Gander, Sept Iles, Wabash, Goose Bay, Saint John, Bagotville, Baie Comeau, Syracuse, Hartford, Baltimore, Windsor, Grand Rapids, Nashville, Timmons, North Bay, Sudbury, Sault Ste Marie, Thunder Bay, Medicine Hat, Lethbridge, Ft Mac, Yellowknife, Terrace, Smithers, Massett, Nanaimo, Prince George, Kamloops

They going to need a lot of jet pilots if they decide to shut down because pilot wages get too high!!

justapasenger wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 3:38 pm

Me262 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 1:06 pm

FelixGustof wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 11:58 am

Honest questions...

Do pilots in Canada think other bargaining outcomes don't have an impact on each other?

Pattern Bargaining doesn't exist for pilots in this country?

Are CEOs shutting down airlines over pilot wages in this country? Can someone point to where this has ever happened ever?

Are pilots always going to vote yes forever now because they need to worry about their airline shutting down if they vote "No"?

So all Airlines now have to do is threaten to shutdown and all the Senior pilots will vote yes?

Jazz and encore could shutdown yes thanks to AC and WJ. Others probably not and definitely not the mainlines including porter.

Crazy...B737s & A220s flying into

Gander, Sept Iles, Wabash, Goose Bay, Saint John, Bagotville, Baie Comeau, Syracuse, Hartford, Baltimore, Windsor, Grand Rapids, Nashville, Timmons, North Bay, Sudbury, Sault Ste Marie, Thunder Bay, Medicine Hat, Lethbridge, Ft Mac, Yellowknife, Terrace, Smithers, Massett, Nanaimo, Prince George, Kamloops

They going to need a lot of jet pilots if they decide to shut down because pilot wages get too high!!

Lmao

Airlines are pulling out of markets due to high pilot wages

When in reality...it will be the lack of pay that will lead to Airlines pulling out...

justapasenger wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 3:38 pm

Me262 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 1:06 pm

FelixGustof wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 11:58 am

Honest questions...

Do pilots in Canada think other bargaining outcomes don't have an impact on each other?

Pattern Bargaining doesn't exist for pilots in this country?

Are CEOs shutting down airlines over pilot wages in this country? Can someone point to where this has ever happened ever?

Are pilots always going to vote yes forever now because they need to worry about their airline shutting down if they vote "No"?

So all Airlines now have to do is threaten to shutdown and all the Senior pilots will vote yes?

Jazz and encore could shutdown yes thanks to AC and WJ. Others probably not and definitely not the mainlines including porter.

Crazy...B737s & A220s flying into

Gander, Sept Iles, Wabash, Goose Bay, Saint John, Bagotville, Baie Comeau, Syracuse, Hartford, Baltimore, Windsor, Grand Rapids, Nashville, Timmons, North Bay, Sudbury, Sault Ste Marie, Thunder Bay, Medicine Hat, Lethbridge, Ft Mac, Yellowknife, Terrace, Smithers, Massett, Nanaimo, Prince George, Kamloops

They going to need a lot of jet pilots if they decide to shut down because pilot wages get too high!!

All of those destinations were served by jets in the past. Do your research.

Exactly. Even Castlegar used to be served by a 737-200
Pretty much all these places can accommodate a 220, 319 and some NG/MAXs depending payload, except probably Masset when it’s wet/standing water.

ShillBill wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:07 am shame on a shameless collapse

Are these pilots now going to just let other pilots groups do the Lion's share of the work and jump on those coat tails by submitting applications when this happens?

Which airline do you work for?

Other than being a troll on an aviation message board, what is the “Lion’s share” of work you’re doing?

Perhaps leading by example is a more effective way to make your point.

daedalusx wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:28 pm Exactly. Even Castlegar used to be served by a 737-200
Pretty much all these places can accommodate a 220, 319 and some NG/MAXs depending payload, except probably Masset when it’s wet/standing water.

Even if WestJet was going to do this and fly 737s into Castlegar which is laughable at best, wouldn't this be essentially flow?

Wasn't that the big hang up? Wouldn't all this "capturing flying" mentality equal more higher paying jobs on jets?

So are we just re affirming Encore messed up huge?

JBI wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 8:28 pm

ShillBill wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:07 am shame on a shameless collapse

Are these pilots now going to just let other pilots groups do the Lion's share of the work and jump on those coat tails by submitting applications when this happens?

Which airline do you work for?

Other than being a troll on an aviation message board, what is the “Lion’s share” of work you’re doing?

Perhaps leading by example is a more effective way to make your point.

Delta. I left the country

ShillBill wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:19 pm

JBI wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 8:28 pm

ShillBill wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:07 am shame on a shameless collapse

Are these pilots now going to just let other pilots groups do the Lion's share of the work and jump on those coat tails by submitting applications when this happens?

Which airline do you work for?

Other than being a troll on an aviation message board, what is the “Lion’s share” of work you’re doing?

Perhaps leading by example is a more effective way to make your point.

Delta. I left the country

LOL so you ain't doin shit. Riding on the coat tails of the hard fought contracts in the US. Why you even posting on a Canadian forum then? Pathetic.

5degrees wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:24 pm

ShillBill wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:19 pm

JBI wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 8:28 pm


Which airline do you work for?

Other than being a troll on an aviation message board, what is the “Lion’s share” of work you’re doing?

Perhaps leading by example is a more effective way to make your point.

Delta. I left the country

LOL so you ain't doin shit. Riding on the coat tails of the hard fought contracts in the US. Why you even posting on a Canadian forum then? Pathetic.

Question...if a 100 Air Canada & WestJet pilots left as well...wouldn't that do a lot more than writing fear messages to members that Encore is done unless you sign a crappy deal

Honest question. Where we at here Canadian pilots

5degrees wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:24 pm

ShillBill wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:19 pm

JBI wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 8:28 pm


Which airline do you work for?

Other than being a troll on an aviation message board, what is the “Lion’s share” of work you’re doing?

Perhaps leading by example is a more effective way to make your point.

Delta. I left the country

LOL so you ain't doin shit. Riding on the coat tails of the hard fought contracts in the US. Why you even posting on a Canadian forum then? Pathetic.

Of course I left...its a basic math exercise. Do you think I'm stupid? As a 3rd year FO I make more than any airline pilot in this country

And reading comments about how great it is being a WJ FO making $90 a hour because you own a boat in Calgary only reaffirms my decision

Torontomaplelaughs wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:18 pm

daedalusx wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:28 pm Exactly. Even Castlegar used to be served by a 737-200
Pretty much all these places can accommodate a 220, 319 and some NG/MAXs depending payload, except probably Masset when it’s wet/standing water.

Even if WestJet was going to do this and fly 737s into Castlegar which is laughable at best, wouldn't this be essentially flow?

Wasn't that the big hang up? Wouldn't all this "capturing flying" mentality equal more higher paying jobs on jets?

So are we just re affirming Encore messed up huge?

Absolutely.
One could even take it further and make the case that mainline Westjet also could have made bigger gains. When your position is that you’ll strike unless you get a North American standard wage and settle for 15% increase …
One could also argue that mainline had more leverage than encore.

ShillBill wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:37 pm

5degrees wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:24 pm

ShillBill wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:19 pm

Delta. I left the country

LOL so you ain't doin shit. Riding on the coat tails of the hard fought contracts in the US. Why you even posting on a Canadian forum then? Pathetic.

Of course I left...its a basic math exercise. Do you think I'm stupid? As a 3rd year FO I make more than any airline pilot in this country

And reading comments about how great it is being a WJ FO making $90 a hour because you own a boat in Calgary only reaffirms my decision

Congrats mate. Genuinely.
If I had the same opportunity I’d do the same.

ShillBill wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:37 pm
Of course I left...its a basic math exercise. Do you think I'm stupid? As a 3rd year FO I make more than any airline pilot in this country

And reading comments about how great it is being a WJ FO making $90 a hour because you own a boat in Calgary only reaffirms my decision

Congratulations in being a 3rd year FO at Delta while you were looking at getting a green card last September.
Just need one more year to be a 8 year Captain and make the big bucks

ShillBill wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:37 pm

5degrees wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:24 pm

ShillBill wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:19 pm

Delta. I left the country

LOL so you ain't doin shit. Riding on the coat tails of the hard fought contracts in the US. Why you even posting on a Canadian forum then? Pathetic.

Of course I left...its a basic math exercise. Do you think I'm stupid? As a 3rd year FO I make more than any airline pilot in this country

And reading comments about how great it is being a WJ FO making $90 a hour because you own a boat in Calgary only reaffirms my decision

ShillBill wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 5:31 am Bonjour à tous,

I am weighing my career options but am scared to be at an airline full of shills

We have seen how shilling has worked at other airlines and they are now among the worst paid pilots on the planet

My question is, is it likely Air Transat pilots will get their collective butts together or are they going to shill it to the bottom because they have great golf tournaments with management

I see AC pilots revolted and joined ALPA so there is hope there at least. Just concerned about some of the comments from les pilotes de Air Transat

Would love to stay home in Montréal but would move if necessary. Maybe the US, just looking at getting my greencard...

Merci

A third year Delta FO eh? That’s awesome! How did you manage to get to step 3 pay at a US carrier when 10 months ago you were “looking at getting your green card…”

ShillBill wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:37 pm

5degrees wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:24 pm

ShillBill wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:19 pm

Delta. I left the country

LOL so you ain't doin shit. Riding on the coat tails of the hard fought contracts in the US. Why you even posting on a Canadian forum then? Pathetic.

Of course I left...its a basic math exercise. Do you think I'm stupid? As a 3rd year FO I make more than any airline pilot in this country

And reading comments about how great it is being a WJ FO making $90 a hour because you own a boat in Calgary only reaffirms my decision

Buddy you shoulda quit posting a while ago. I don't think you're stupid I know it.

ShillBill wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 5:31 am Bonjour à tous,

I am weighing my career options but am scared to be at an airline full of shills

We have seen how shilling has worked at other airlines and they are now among the worst paid pilots on the planet

My question is, is it likely Air Transat pilots will get their collective butts together or are they going to shill it to the bottom because they have great golf tournaments with management

I see AC pilots revolted and joined ALPA so there is hope there at least. Just concerned about some of the comments from les pilotes de Air Transat

Would love to stay home in Montréal but would move if necessary. Maybe the US, just looking at getting my greencard...

Merci

The above accusations appear accurate.

Can you let us in on your time traveling secrets Mr. Shill?

Dear ShillDill. As an imaginary Delta pilot, you have imaginary access to ALPAs pilot assistance, teledoc, and programs for mental health. I can speak for all of us on Avcanada, we wish you well in your recovery, and urge you to go outside to touch grass and resist the urge to sperg on here. Cheers Pickles

Looks like someone is getting a new alias for him/her/themselves!