When do operators hire new pilots?

[TalkingPie]

I'm looking for some feedback on when operators hire fresh pilots.

Five years after starting my PPL part-time, I'm in the process of doing my multi-IFR and finishing my CPL while working my longtime, unionized job. If I leave my job I lose over a decade's seniority and a defined pension that I can't get back, so I've been waffling over pulling the pin. At the same time, I understand that I want to have my ratings all done by spring for the 2025 season, at the latest.

So I'm considering quitting my job so that I can make a final full-time push to finish everything, even though winter flying in the Montreal area isn't exactly ideal. If I do this I'll then be adrift until I can land my first piloting job. I have the finances to allow a few months of unemployment if I have to, but the prospect seems daunting. The alternative is to hold on to the job I have but risk missing out on the 2025 season, which, at 40, I don't want to do. My current employer steadfastly refuses to give me a leave of absence, despite being a major airline during a pilot shortage.

Thoughts?

[7ECA]

It sounds like you've already made a decision, you just aren't ready to admit it yet.

Leaving your current employer means you lose your DB pension, years of seniority - as well as the stability of a union shop.

Starting from scratch as a green CPL is a daunting prospect at any age, let alone at 40+ when you're just not going to put up with the kind of shit that an 18/19 year old can. No offence.

If you've been on this forum for any length of time, you've probably seen the stats around licensing and the reality check that they should give any prospective CPL... Of the people that go to an FTU with the intention of becoming an "airline pilot", the percentages of people that finish their PPL, versus actually make it to their CPL... versus actually go on to work in the industry become smaller and smaller. Frankly, the reality sucks, but even with a CPL very few people "make it" or stick it out making poverty level wages for long enough to "make it".

With a, seemingly, stable position and (from the sound of things) numerous benefits in the short and long term, it seems foolish to walk away from that. You can always use that PPL, or even a CPL if you are so inclined, to fly recreationally and still be miles ahead of your much younger peers whom you'd be competing with for the small number of jobs available.

[rookiepilot]

I'm looking for some feedback on when operators hire fresh pilots.

Five years after starting my PPL part-time, I'm in the process of doing my multi-IFR and finishing my CPL while working my longtime, unionized job. If I leave my job I lose over a decade's seniority and a defined pension that I can't get back, so I've been waffling over pulling the pin. At the same time, I understand that I want to have my ratings all done by spring for the 2025 season, at the latest.

So I'm considering quitting my job so that I can make a final full-time push to finish everything, even though winter flying in the Montreal area isn't exactly ideal. If I do this I'll then be adrift until I can land my first piloting job. I have the finances to allow a few months of unemployment if I have to, but the prospect seems daunting. The alternative is to hold on to the job I have but risk missing out on the 2025 season, which, at 40, I don't want to do. My current employer steadfastly refuses to give me a leave of absence, despite being a major airline during a pilot shortage.

Thoughts?

Do you understand where the economy is going now — right?

If that doesn’t matter, it doesn’t matter. Just add it to your analysis, thats all.

[KN84]

Keep doing your current profession. Easy to get the 1st flying job but it’s hard to advance. I’m currently a newish King Air Captain whose considering taking my degree and using it outside of aviation. A colleague of mine has been a King Air training captain for a long time and has had no opportunities presented to advance to the airlines.

[330heavy]

Don't quit your job until you have a flying one lined up. Operators hire year round, unless you're targeting float/bush, then they generally will have hired by March or so for the season. Even then, nowadays with so much moevent, they're hiring/replacing throughout the season. You've put in this much time and patience, have a little bit more to have financial comfort for you and your family

[goingnowherefast]

If you've been on this forum for any length of time, you've probably seen the stats around licensing and the reality check that they should give any prospective CPL... Of the people that go to an FTU with the intention of becoming an "airline pilot", the percentages of people that finish their PPL, versus actually make it to their CPL... versus actually go on to work in the industry become smaller and smaller. Frankly, the reality sucks, but even with a CPL very few people "make it" or stick it out making poverty level wages for long enough to "make it".

With a, seemingly, stable position and (from the sound of things) numerous benefits in the short and long term, it seems foolish to walk away from that. You can always use that PPL, or even a CPL if you are so inclined, to fly recreationally and still be miles ahead of your much younger peers whom you'd be competing with for the small number of jobs available.

This is some great advice to the OP. Flying professionally is a ruthless career, and it's even worse in Canada.

2010-2015 we were heading into a pilot shortage. None of the operators gave a flying f-. Pay was abysmal, use and abuse. Nobody wanted to be a pilot.

2020 came around, starting off the year with a shortage, then suddenly massive layoffs throughout the industry. What were thought of as stable jobs, people were now working at Home Depot. Some operators used it as an opportunity for vengeance against their pilots after a couple years of shortage style gains. Many people never went back to flying.

Now we're back in the thick of the shortage. It's depressing looking at how WJ and AC treat their pilots. Smaller companies aren't much different. The difference with smaller airlines is people up and quit because you're not losing a great pension when quitting Perimeter. AC and WJ jobs are supposedly the best in Canada, so the unions will, and rightfully are fighting for them. The group of employees that literally make the airplanes move; management and the public has some weird distain for us.

If I were to do this all over again, I'd find a job that affords me the opportunity to fly recreationally. Find a partnership in some cool airplane and fly for fun on weekends.

[TalkingPie]

I appreciate the replies so far.

For clarification, I work as cabin crew for a Canadian airline, so am already well acquainted with that landscape of disrespect. This was a job that I never intended to do for as long as I have, and one way or another I've been looking to make a change. I've already done the business degree along the way and found it, unfortunately, to be useless to me. Taking a crack at being a pilot is something I'm committed to doing at this point. I'm not planning to give it up now at ~240 hours and being relatively close to being (theoretically) employable. But it's helpful to me to know that being ready for early spring maybe isn't the end-all, be-all that I thought it was.

[rookiepilot]

I appreciate the replies so far.

For clarification, I work as cabin crew for a Canadian airline, so am already well acquainted with that landscape of disrespect. This was a job that I never intended to do for as long as I have, and one way or another I've been looking to make a change. I've already done the business degree along the way and found it, unfortunately, to be useless to me. Taking a crack at being a pilot is something I'm committed to doing at this point. I'm not planning to give it up now at ~240 hours and being relatively close to being (theoretically) employable. But it's helpful to me to know that being ready for early spring maybe isn't the end-all, be-all that I thought it was.

You’ve obviously already made up your mind, whats the point of your first post, then?

I’d listen a bit better.

[DanWEC]

You’ve obviously already made up your mind, whats the point of your first post, then?

I’d listen a bit better.

WOW.
You having a bad day man?

Anyways, in the spirit of discussion to Talkingpie- which is what this forum is about... it's a huge gamble quitting just to finish your license. Some people quit to take a road trip, but those days might be behind us. When I started, I quit my job in Nov for a dream position that evaporated after a few months when the plane deal fell through. I was suddenly totally unemployed in late winter with 250 hrs, and the road trip was do or die. It worked out fortunately. Now in 2024, unless you want to do floats or camp work (Which is a pretty damn awesome way to start flying compared to punching buttons and checklists in a little Dash or RJ) I don't think spring holds any more promise than any other season. Quitting for a spring road trip would be a better risk than quitting to finish your license.... plenty could go wrong or get delayed before you get there.

Back on track, I know a few FA's that moved through super quick, one guy went to pal then jazz about 3 years after starting PPL training. I think you have a leg up in the airline world.
It might take you only a few extra months, but if it were me, I wouldn't cut the cord quite yet- but only you know what you should do!

Good luck, you've got a great flying career ahead!

[rookiepilot]

I've already done the business degree along the way and found it, unfortunately, to be useless to me. Taking a crack at being a pilot is something I'm committed to doing at this point. I'm not planning to give it up now at ~240 hours and being relatively close to being (theoretically) employable.

No offense Dan, but reading this, I was struck by a trying this and taking a crack at that.

Unless one is rich already, that ain’t gonna fly well in the environment that is coming, but as they say, you do you.

Does he have a family? Seems like a lotta risk unless one is totally sold out and not “taking a crack at it”. Not sure how the airlines would look at that attitude to being in command of an airliner, either.

[CtrlX]

Just a thought... I know of a handful of FA's who have made the switch to the flight deck, and they kept their FA jobs while getting started. Most of them traded, sold or gave away their FA shifts as much as possible to allow the flexibility to finish training and start flying. That way if there was a downturn, they still had the FA job as a back-up.
For two of them, they never left the original airline as an FA, and also flew charters or air ambulance as well. This gave them a step up once they had the experience and were re-applying for a pilot job at their own airline as they were still an active employee and had a good employment record.

I'm not saying this is easy, or possible for everyone, but it has been done.

As for your original question, operators who hire newbies are always looking for someone with the right attitude, all year round. The bush operators may not start operations until the spring, but they will interview anytime, and if they like you they will keep you in mind. They won't wait until spring to hire their pilots for the season, and they always need a few names ready to go in case they lose a pilot to another job.

[Big Pistons Forever]

My 02 cents

Finish all your training. When you get a flying job offer with a course start date ask for a LOA from your current job again. Things can change rapidly so you may get it, if you don’t then if you want to make a move you will have to quit. The advantage of getting all you training in while you still have a job is you don’t necessarily have to take the first flying job offered.

I worked for 5 companies over 36 years. Every job I got was by a word of mouth referral. Talk up the new hire pilots and politely pump them for the inside scoop on who might be hiring and how good the outfit is.

At the end of the day, however only you can decide what’s best for your life.

[CaptDukeNukem]

I say take the plunge. Your FA wage and QOL will be eclipsed in a short while. DB pension is nice, but you’ll win in the end.

[TeePeeCreeper]

My two cents…

Keep your current job while achieving the ratings you seek.

Since you mentioned being unionized…

I would suggest speaking to your union rep and asking them to go over your collective b to see if any potential alternative work arounds exist within your union agreement.

I’m also unionized but the way our agreement is written after 7 years of continuous service one can opt to take a 24 month sabbatical without loosing their seniority # or incur a $ penalty other than a hit on one’s pension…

Food for thought…

All the best,

TPC

[RayJr]

Do you understand where the economy is going now — right?

Where is it going?

[rookiepilot]

Do you understand where the economy is going now — right?

Where is it going?

What do you think

[RayJr]

Do you understand where the economy is going now — right?

Where is it going?

What do you think

No idea

[goingnowherefast]

Where is it going?

What do you think

No idea

Bank of Canada is cutting rates to prevent bad things. So far it seems to be working alright. Still makes me nervous.

[BigQ]

Central banks always cut too late.

Right now, I wouldn't leave a job unless you have a start date in the next 24hrs.

[rookiepilot]

Central banks always cut too late.

Correct.

[rookiepilot]

What do you think

No idea

Bank of Canada is cutting rates to prevent bad things. So far it seems to be working alright. Still makes me nervous.

Gonna take a lot more this time.

Could be wrong, often am.