To Descend in the Downwind or Not to

[Aviator3925]

Have been hearing too many conflicting opinions on this. Some people say you should never climb/descend in the downwind at an uncontrolled aerodrome (high wing climbing in to a low wing who is descending to join the circuit).

When do you start your descent for landing? Configure abeam the touchdown zone and start a descent, or go out 45 degrees to your aiming point, configure and turn base as you are starting the descent?

On a side note - what about downwind departures?

[tsgarp]

Descend once you turn base.

[RayJr]

Just for fun, Can you point out downwind departure in any TC docs?

[Me262]

Descend from 3000 to 2700 on downwind in Moose Jaw

[tsgarp]

Descend from 3000 to 2700 on downwind in Moose Jaw

Not applicable at a civi aerodrome; they don’t have to separate straight in traffic from overhead break traffic.

[scdriver]

Just for fun, Can you point out downwind departure in any TC docs?

AM9, eastbound takeoff from the river has a published downwind departure

[Panama Jack]

Have been hearing too many conflicting opinions on this. Some people say you should never climb/descend in the downwind at an uncontrolled aerodrome (high wing climbing in to a low wing who is descending to join the circuit).

When do you start your descent for landing? Configure abeam the touchdown zone and start a descent, or go out 45 degrees to your aiming point, configure and turn base as you are starting the descent?

On a side note - what about downwind departures?

Let me take a crack at the easy question first: "What about downwind departures?"

The AIM says: "Departing the Circuit or Aerodrome: Aircraft departing the circuit or aerodrome should climb straight ahead on the runway heading up to the circuit traffic altitude before commencing a turn in any direction to an en route heading. A turn back toward the circuit or aerodrome should not be initiated until the aircraft is at least 500 ft above the highest circuit altitude."

As far as climbing/descending in the downwind, the AIM provides the following guidance:
"Continuous Circuits: Aircraft performing a series of circuits and landings should, after each take-off, commence the turn to the crosswind leg beyond the departure end of the runway and within 300 ft of the circuit altitude, and reach circuit altitude before joining the downwind leg."

also...

"When joining from the non-active side, the pilot should plan the descent to cross the runway in level flight at circuit altitude and maintain that altitude until further descent is required for landing."

The FAA in AC 90-66C expressly warns against descending in the pattern "Entries into traffic patterns while descending may create collision hazards and should be avoided."

Obviously, gliders on the downwind are in a descent.

The CARs, the AIM, and the Aeroplane Flight Training Manual do not discuss when to begin the descent. FAA AC 90-66C says: "The traffic pattern altitude should be maintained until the aircraft is at least abeam the approach end of the landing runway on the downwind leg. The base leg turn should commence when the aircraft is at a point approximately 45 degrees relative bearing from the approach end of the runway."

[digits_]

Have been hearing too many conflicting opinions on this. Some people say you should never climb/descend in the downwind at an uncontrolled aerodrome (high wing climbing in to a low wing who is descending to join the circuit).

When do you start your descent for landing? Configure abeam the touchdown zone and start a descent, or go out 45 degrees to your aiming point, configure and turn base as you are starting the descent?

On a side note - what about downwind departures?

Let me take a crack at the easy question first: "What about downwind departures?"

The AIM says: "Departing the Circuit or Aerodrome: Aircraft departing the circuit or aerodrome should climb straight ahead on the runway heading up to the circuit traffic altitude before commencing a turn in any direction to an en route heading. A turn back toward the circuit or aerodrome should not be initiated until the aircraft is at least 500 ft above the highest circuit altitude."

It's not that easy, because the circuit altitude, or the highest circuit altitude, is undefined at most airports.

[7ECA]

It's not that easy, because the circuit altitude, or the highest circuit altitude, is undefined at most airports.

The AIM states the circuit altitude is generally 1000' Above Aerodrome Elevation.

Airports with "non-standard" circuit altitudes have this figure published in the CFS - for example Blunder Bay (CZBB) has an 800' ASL circuit height. The same goes for airports with runways that do not follow the "standard" left hand circuit pattern - those "non-standard" circuit directions are published as well.

[futurebushpilot]

When turning base.

[‘Bob’]

It's not that easy, because the circuit altitude, or the highest circuit altitude, is undefined at most airports.

The AIM states the circuit altitude is generally 1000' Above Aerodrome Elevation.

Airports with "non-standard" circuit altitudes have this figure published in the CFS - for example Blunder Bay (CZBB) has an 800' ASL circuit height. The same goes for airports with runways that do not follow the "standard" left hand circuit pattern - those "non-standard" circuit directions are published as well.

The new AIM publishes different altitude for different aircraft types.

[7ECA]

The new AIM publishes different altitude for different aircraft types.

Indeed, hence why I said the circuit altitude is generally 1000' AAE.