WJ vs AC FO pay

[PointNine]

I was just comparing WestJet vs AC payrates for the first few years. I used this tool to compare the contracts from the AC forum: https://airlinecontract.com/ and their pay calculator shows actually higher pay at WJ for the first 5 years or so.
Also QoL seems a lot better at Westjet.

What's everyone's take on that?
Why would I choose say WestJet over AC if I would want to live in Vancouver and enjoy my day at work at the same time.

[Canadaflyer46]

WestJet has the longest narrowbody upgrades in the world. That puts a lot of people off. If you’re in Vancouver you’ll be waiting 15-20 years for a left seat with current projections. If FO pay was increased significantly that would go a long way to making up for that.
AC you will undoubtedly earn more money, but the seniority Vs socialized bidding is definitely something to consider.
If you want to live where AC doesn’t have a base then I’d choose WJ and not spend your life being miserable commuting. If you’re YVR/YYZ then pick AC hands down.

[lownslow]

WestJet has the longest narrowbody upgrades in the world. That puts a lot of people off. If you’re in Vancouver you’ll be waiting 15-20 years for a left seat with current projections.

While I don’t disagree with the data used to make that projection, it’s such a long timeline that with the volatility of aviation it can’t possibly come true… can it?

[JBI]

WestJet has the longest narrowbody upgrades in the world. That puts a lot of people off. If you’re in Vancouver you’ll be waiting 15-20 years for a left seat with current projections.

While I don’t disagree with the data used to make that projection, it’s such a long timeline that with the volatility of aviation it can’t possibly come true… can it?

Right now the most junior WestJet Captain had 9 1/2 years before he upgraded. He was a May 2015 hire. WestJet & Encore did A LOT of hiring in 2015/2016. There are another 100 pilots hired those years. Those 100 pilots will not all upgrade this year, so upgrade times will go up.

But here's the thing, upgrades are not like waiting on an escalator. It doesn't move at a regular pace.

No one has any clue what the situation at WJ or Air Canada will be like in 10 years. The projection with the IPSL award provided assumes NO growth and ONLY hiring to replace retirements. How likely is it that WestJet will keep the exact same number of 737s for the next 15-20 years? It definitely COULD happen, but I think it's more likely that the company is either bigger or smaller (hopefully not).

While I'm not really an optimist when it comes to my aviation career, WestJet currently has around 125 737s active. There are orders for another 60 Max at the moment. While I definitely expect some of those orders simply to off-set lease returns/aircraft retirements, I expect some growth. That will increase upgrades.

I would never say to my colleagues "well, if you don't like it, leave!" - that's an attitude that has long been used by management to justify improper treatment of pilots. What I would say, however, is take an honest look on whether you think WJ's strategy is one you think will be successful or will it fail. And if you don't think it's going to be successful, are their other airlines whom you think WILL be successful? Porter is growing rapidly, with jet time experience, a E2 Captain upgrade would come way quicker than a 737 upgrade at WJ. But, Porter is an unknown right now. I hope they succeed, but a lot of their growth is based on new US destinations, yet we have a huge chunk of Canadians saying that they won't visit the US right now.

[8895]

WestJet has the longest narrowbody upgrades in the world. That puts a lot of people off. If you’re in Vancouver you’ll be waiting 15-20 years for a left seat with current projections.

While I don’t disagree with the data used to make that projection, it’s such a long timeline that with the volatility of aviation it can’t possibly come true… can it?

Porter is growing rapidly, with jet time experience, a E2 Captain upgrade would come way quicker than a 737 upgrade at WJ. But, Porter is an unknown right now. I hope they succeed, but a lot of their growth is based on new US destinations, yet we have a huge chunk of Canadians saying that they won't visit the US right now.

75% of Porters capacity this summer is domestic, and they’re planning for Mexican/Caribbean flying next winter, which will be a nice way to diversify away from the states if needed.

If I were at WJ I’d be concerned about the fact that every person I talk to about them says they’re done dealing with them and are getting rid of the credit card lol

[Blackdog0301]

While I don’t disagree with the data used to make that projection, it’s such a long timeline that with the volatility of aviation it can’t possibly come true… can it?

Porter is growing rapidly, with jet time experience, a E2 Captain upgrade would come way quicker than a 737 upgrade at WJ. But, Porter is an unknown right now. I hope they succeed, but a lot of their growth is based on new US destinations, yet we have a huge chunk of Canadians saying that they won't visit the US right now.

If I were at WJ I’d be concerned about the fact that every person I talk to about them says they’re done dealing with them and are getting rid of the credit card lol

Oh yes, because the conversations that 8895 has with the people in their life regarding who they fly with is going to cause the people at WestJet to question the company's future.

[Babar350]

There are many variables to consider, but it would also be interesting to explore the purchasing power of each group.
A WJ FO living in Calgary with fewer (income) taxes VS an AC FO living in YYZ.
Assuming all other factors remain constant, what would be the Year 5 FO’s take-home pay, excluding the “usual” deductions such as health insurance and income taxes?

[Canadaflyer46]

There are many variables to consider, but it would also be interesting to explore the purchasing power of each group.
A WJ FO living in Calgary with fewer (income) taxes VS an AC FO living in YYZ.
Assuming all other factors remain constant, what would be the Year 5 FO’s take-home pay, excluding the “usual” deductions such as health insurance and income taxes?

Would also be interested to see this. I imagine AC would be better seeing as at WJ you pay for your own benefits and LTD.
Of course the loss of earnings from the extra 10 years in the right seat would amount to $1.5m which would offset a lot of expenses associated with living in YYZ/YVR.