Crazy Beaver Load

Snowgoose · Post by **Snowgoose** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:31 am

First of all get your minds out of the gutter

I've had ATV's and snowmachines in the back but have never seen strapped to the side.

Rowdy · Post by **Rowdy** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:23 am

That looks pretty good on the side! How far did you have to take it?

We had a threewheeler on the side of the beaver.. Looks pretty cool with that quad on there though... some of our standard loads were....

16ft 2x6's Usually carrying 16 per side.

14 and 16ft Aluminum boats

All shapes and sizes of fiberglass, composit and aluminum canoes. (had some on the cessna as well.. but don't have any pictures sadly)

I have pics of my father with a skidoo on a beav from many years back... see if I can find it and scan it in.

ANyone else have some neat external load pics?

Snowgoose · Post by **Snowgoose** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:27 am

Alas I have never flown a beaver, would like to though.

A freind sent me the pics and he in turn got them from someone else. Nonetheless I was impressed.

pianodude · Post by **pianodude** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:09 pm

wouldn't it be more aerodynamic to strap the boats on with the bow into the wind(they sure go throught the water better that way!!)

CFMartin · Post by **CFMartin** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:15 pm

Curiously, no.

What you wish for is not better aerodynamics, but less disrupted airflow hitting the horinzontal stabilizer.

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:18 pm

Man! I'll bet you'd get a sore leg keeping her coordinated with an ATV on the float of a Beaver!

Very cool pics!

-istp

buck82 · Post by **buck82** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:55 pm

trim... and keep one wing high

Rowdy · Post by **Rowdy** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:13 pm

It's suprisingly not so bad with the beaver. The 180/5 however requires a heavy foot for the most part!

Rowdy · Post by **Rowdy** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:15 pm

pianodude wrote:wouldn't it be more aerodynamic to strap the boats on with the bow into the wind(they sure go throught the water better that way!!)

the bow of the boat when facing forward like you described actually produces lift and will try and tear the straps and (if you have them) racks right off!

Siddley Hawker · Post by **Siddley Hawker** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:13 pm

Anyone remember the so-called Fecteau canoe strut on the Beaver and Otter? That's the one that's like an A-frame, with the two lower ends of the A attached to the float just above the water line, and the top of the A attached to the wing strut. It was on the left side of the Beaver and the right side of the Otter. I preferred it cause it kept the deck of the float free, for one thing.

On another note, Max Ward once carried an upright grand piano on the Otter. He said the touchdown was so smooth he never hit a sour note.

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:06 pm

Rowdy wrote:
pianodude wrote:wouldn't it be more aerodynamic to strap the boats on with the bow into the wind(they sure go throught the water better that way!!)
the bow of the boat when facing forward like you described actually produces lift and will try and tear the straps and (if you have them) racks right off!

We fly boats bow forward on the Otter all the time and have never had any incident like that occur or any other problems for that matter. You can get away with bow forward on the Otter because the horizontal stab is well above the airflow created by the boat. They fly faster and nicer that way. But again, can't get away with it on the Beaver because the horizontal stab is right behind the boat.

185_guy · Post by **185_guy** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:24 am

We'd tie boats on bow foward on the Norseman too. Like the Otter, the airflow seems to miss the tail, cause the tail is a bit higher, and the boat is hanging way out there off the rack. ( just like the Fecteau canoe strut)
I dident like carrying stuff on the side of the Beaver, the Norseman however would fly anything without the puckering of your ass!! (well, just the usual, wondering when u'd break water!!)[/img]

MUSICMAAN · Post by **MUSICMAAN** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:00 am

Hmmmmm, the reason we tie boats on with the ass end forward has nothing to do with the air flow over the tail, beside the tail, or anything to do with the tail... If you put the stern to the rear you are creating a suction as the air flows around the flat ass of the boat. By puting the stern at the front of the float, you creat a compression of air on the flat part of the boat. Anyone that know's anything about aerodynamics will tell you that compression is less drag than suction, thus giving you better air flow. Ta Da!! science lesson for the day. Oh, by the way.... this is why the tail of aircraft are the pointy end.

MM

niss · Post by **niss** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:48 pm

It can be a bit of a challenge sometimes but fortunatly I am a hell of a pilot.

P.S. Dont ask my why the hell someone would be flying a boat in the winter.

. . · Post by **. .** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:16 pm

musicman: I agree that vacuum drag is indeed a factor, golf balls being the perfect proof of concept. However, I don't think that it out weighs the mass amount of form drag from the back of the boat. If your theory were true bullets would be shaped to fire the squared off end first, the space shuttle would be backwards etc etc etc.

They've tried to design long range arty shells that release gases into the vacuum drag section to overcome that drag. If your theory was correct they would have redesigned the shape of the shells rather than stay with the current more areodynamic varriants.

So there's your lesson of the day.

(=

As the earlier poster stated, the boats bow forward fly more quickly. I believe this is further proof that form drag far outweighs vacuum drag no matter how signifigant posed by the flat stern of the boat.

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:26 pm

Sweet pic, niss!

-istp

bronson · Post by **bronson** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:27 am

This will probably start an argument, but that boat should be on the right side of the Beaver, not the left...

Pratt · Post by **Pratt** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:39 am

Start of the argument, I want the outside load to be on the left side so that I can monitor what it is doing, can't see it too good strapped onto the right side.

Flown loads on both sides and depending on what it is there is usually little to none adverse effect on the flight characteristics. But that means that it won't. MY DISCLAIMER.

I have flown canoes and boats on both sides, the only time anything was on the right side was when there was already something on the left side, used to do freight hauls with lumber up both sides as far as the struts would allow with sheets of plywood on the spreader bars below.

If you are ever hauling paneling on the spreader bars, have a sheet of plywood above and below it, it doesn't stand up too well otherwise, and makes for an interesting flight when parts of it start breaking off. Trust me, I know.

As for ass first or pointy end first, was taught by old, and still alive bush guys when I was getting into it, ass end forward always. Again not a really big difference aerodynamically, especially if you are flying a Beaver or Otter. The rational was if the load ever departed the side of the plane it wouldn't take the tail off if it was the bow ta the back end.

Which all came to light one wet, cold, fall day in Labrador when a coworker strapped a 17 foot freighter canoe onto the side of the Beaver. Having to stand in the water to get it loaded he was pissed off and in a hurry and didn't do his normal good job of securing the load. Shortly after take off the canoe departed the fix, fortunately for him, when it left it just went back, hitting the horiz stab and deflected down. And away it went, if the stern had been at the back he might have lost the horizontal stab, which would not have been good for him and everyone else.

My advise, keep it on the left side and bow to the back if you have a choice.

185_guy · Post by **185_guy** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:44 am

To keep the arguement going:
I found boats flew better on the right, espically big ones, even big long canoes. Also easier to get out of the plane, you dont have to crawl over a boat trying to get to the dock. If it starts coming loose in flight, what are you gonna do? watch it fly off? if its going to come off, i'm sure it will hapen faster than you can chop the power and land. Tie it on good enough and you dont have to worry about it!! I always use 2 ratchet straps around the middle, 2 ropes, one on each end of the canoe, and sometimes the 2 float ropes, doubling up where the ratchet straps are.
All in all, personal preference me thinks.
But i guess on the Caravan, you'd have to tie it on the left side, or watch your load melt and catch fire!!!
Now tying a load on a Beech 18......

thats just cool looking! I bet niss could almost do it with his cherokee! may have to extend the struts or get bigger tires though!!

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:14 am

Don't give him any ideas, 185_guy!

NWONT · Post by **NWONT** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:21 am

Am I the only one that noticed a bit of trick photography with the Cherokee

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:24 am

No. But it's still cool!

-istp

Walter · Post by **Walter** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:37 am

I found a boat will fly fine bow first or stern first doesn’t seem to make much difference. However, I can feel a lot more vibration in the elevator control when it is on bow first and for that reason I flew them stern first. As for left side vs. right, on the beaver it doesn’t matter because the stab is pretty much aligned with the load so the slipstream either takes to turbulent air over or under the stab. On the Otter because of the raised tail the boats should be flown on the right side because in that way the slipstream will be taking the turbulent air down and away from the stab. Also because the Otter has an adjustable stab this is more important. I don’t have any experience to prove it but I never sweat not being able to see the load knowing full well if it comes loose I won’t need to see it to tell. For the people just learning to tie externals: keep it simple. If you get too many knots on top of knots you wont be able to tell what’s holding what. Also if you are tying loads for your boss he will appreciate this, being able to tell at a glance if it’s secure.

Elessar_44 · Post by **Elessar_44** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:46 am

Man, thats so cool. I would have thought that straping a big ass boat would cause a shitload of drag but I guess you guys do it everyday lol

Thats the kind of flying I'd like to do when I'm all done school in the next 5-6 months.

Driving Rain · Post by **Driving Rain** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:24 pm

pianodude wrote:wouldn't it be more aerodynamic to strap the boats on with the bow into the wind(they sure go throught the water better that way!!)

If you've ever observed a boat floating freely on a lake, it floats with the stern facing the wind. Believe it or not it's more aerodynamic that way. If you were to carry a small boat on your car roof that way you would actually get more miles per gallon too.
Just get behind a transport trucks big flat area and feel the turbulence. Would you want that same turbulence shaking the shit out of your tail feathers?