Nice

[Old fella]

It must be a well sought after assignment to crew Air Canada JETZ as of late bringing the Jays to their post-season destinations and back. Late night travel it seems but it would appear(to me) a different kind of schedule.

[flying4dollars]

It must be a well sought after assignment to crew Air Canada JETZ as of late bringing the Jays to their post-season destinations and back. Late night travel it seems but it would appear(to me) a different kind of schedule.

Haven't done the Jays yet but generally with Jetz, yes and no. Live flights are great. Amazing food , nice hotels and sometimes game tickets. But the other half is middle of the night repo flights with no crew on board and kind of hit or miss on any boarded meals. I still enjoy it nonetheless. I get to fly into airports the 320 doesn't normally serve on sched flights. Not to mention there's some advantages to flying in and out of FBOs.

[Jean-Pierre]

Nice is mainline only operates in the summer time.

[Stratopaused]

The Jays flying is being done by WestJet

[702pipeliner]

The Jays flying is being done by WestJet

Lmao. Wj sponsors the team. They don't fly them. Most of the professional teams in canada are done by jetz.

[Flyboy736]

The Jays flying is being done by WestJet

Lmao. Wj sponsors the team. They don't fly them. Most of the professional teams in canada are done by jetz.

With all due respect this feels like Dumb and Dumber having a conversation. A simple Google search shows Delta has the contract to fly all MLB teams including the Jays. That's why you see the Delta 757 always sitting on the north end of the airport..

[Old fella]

The Jays flying is being done by WestJet

Lmao. Wj sponsors the team. They don't fly them. Most of the professional teams in canada are done by jetz.

With all due respect this feels like Dumb and Dumber having a conversation. A simple Google search shows Delta has the contract to fly all MLB teams including the Jays. That's why you see the Delta 757 always sitting on the north end of the airport..

I did a Google search and it indicated AC JETZ does indeed fly the Jays, but whatever.

[TheStig]

Sports charters can be a nice change of pace from sked flying, it's been a few years since I've looked at the mainline 320 flying so things might have changed. Most of the regular season flying is published in the pairing for line pilots to bid on. As mentioned a lot of the NHL stuff is repositioning airplanes because the number of teams flown is greater than the number of fins configured for charters.

In the summer it was more common for the aircraft to stick with the Jays and there were some pairings that had the crew staying for the series out of town, this allows you to attend some games. Playoff charters tend to end up in 'open time' and are flown by pilots; on reserve, doing make-up flying, management etc.

As a sports fan it's interesting to see what a modern day travelling circus professional sports are. It's amazing how many Coaches, Trainers, Management, Media and sometimes Owners, travel with the teams. It's easy to forget how many people are involved behind the scenes when you turn a game on TV and watch, kind of like when the credits roll after a movie.

[altiplano]

With all due respect this feels like Dumb and Dumber having a conversation. A simple Google search shows Delta has the contract to fly all MLB teams including the Jays. That's why you see the Delta 757 always sitting on the north end of the airport..

Dumb and Dumberer apparently...

Jays team flying is done by AC.

A simple Google search finds the Jays flight back from LA after game 5...

https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA7027

Plane spotters even have the approach and landing posted.

[flieslikeachicken]

WestJet sponsors the Jays but the Jays don't want to be stuck in a 29" gap between seats for hours on end.

Delta carries many MLB teams, but not the Jays.

Air Canada flies the Jays on the Jetz aircraft.

Any other things we need to clear up?

[FelixGustof]

Why wouldn't more teams use Air Canada over Delta?

Aren't Air Canada pilots way cheaper with their inferior contract?

Seems like that would be huge cost savings for professional sport teams

[flieslikeachicken]

Why wouldn't more teams use Air Canada over Delta?

Aren't Air Canada pilots way cheaper with their inferior contract?

Seems like that would be huge cost savings for professional sport teams

The teams aren't paying the pilots... they're paying the airline. There are many reasons why Air Canada could be more expensive or less appealing for private charters.

[philaviate]

Why wouldn't more teams use Air Canada over Delta?

Aren't Air Canada pilots way cheaper with their inferior contract?

Seems like that would be huge cost savings for professional sport teams

The same reasons no one in practically any form of business will choose Canadian when they have the option to use someone else.


Taxes and government over regulation.

[TheStig]

I Know Felix is trolling, but this was covered when he was in diapers. Jetz provides a great product with reliable service on dedicated aircraft but its expansion into carrying US based franchises drew the ire of Delta airlines. The agreement reached limited AC to more or less "stay in its own lane".

In September 2009, Air Canada Jetz was involved in a significant dispute with the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) over the strict enforcement of cabotage laws related to its charter flights for professional sports teams, specifically in the NHL and NBA.

The Core of the Issue

Cabotage laws, generally, prohibit foreign airlines from carrying passengers or cargo between two points within a single foreign country for remuneration. Air Canada Jetz, which operated an all-business-class charter service, had contracts to fly Canadian and U.S. sports teams across North America.

The U.S. DOT alleged that Air Canada violated U.S. cabotage restrictions by carrying passengers (such as injured players or team owners) between two U.S. cities who did not make the initial cross-border flight from Canada. The DOT's position was that for a foreign carrier to operate a domestic leg within the U.S. as part of an international journey, all passengers on that domestic leg must have originated from, or be returning to, a point outside the U.S.

The 2009 Dispute and Resolution

The dispute escalated when the DOT issued a ruling in August 2009 that threatened to cancel all of Air Canada's professional sports team charters for the upcoming season, prompting Air Canada to sue the U.S. DOT. Air Canada argued that the DOT's action was unilateral and that similar operations had been previously allowed for decades. The issue was eventually resolved after a high-level meeting between U.S. President Barack Obama and Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper.

The immediate ban was averted, allowing Air Canada to resume the charters under a watchful eye while an investigation into past activities continued. This incident highlighted the strict interpretation and enforcement of international aviation rules regarding domestic routes.


Here's a thread from 16 years ago.
viewtopic.php?t=57238

[737Drver]

In all honesty, shouldn't Air Canada be able to whoop Delta with their vastly cheaper costs on pilots & labour?

Aren't Air Canada pilots the cheapest North American legacy pilots there is?? Shouldn't the company be able to take advantage of this and just be able to out price Delta and their much superior (and costly) pilot contract?

[altiplano]

In all honesty, shouldn't Air Canada be able to whoop Delta with their vastly cheaper costs on pilots & labour?

Aren't Air Canada pilots the cheapest North American legacy pilots there is?? Shouldn't the company be able to take advantage of this and just be able to out price Delta and their much superior (and costly) pilot contract?

Pilots make up a miniscule amount of the cost of operations. Between Delta and Air Canada it's a rounding error on the balance sheet in casm.

Look at the larger operational inefficiency

Delta has 100,000 employees for 1000 aircraft. 100:1
Air Canada has 40,000 employees for 200 aircraft 200:1.

Add on all the wasted money at Air Canada from government/regulator bullshit, bilingualism, crown corporation baggage, taxes, and just the general bad luck of operating a business in present day Canada...

[Flyboy736]

In all honesty, shouldn't Air Canada be able to whoop Delta with their vastly cheaper costs on pilots & labour?

Aren't Air Canada pilots the cheapest North American legacy pilots there is?? Shouldn't the company be able to take advantage of this and just be able to out price Delta and their much superior (and costly) pilot contract?

Pilots make up a miniscule amount of the cost of operations. Between Delta and Air Canada it's a rounding error on the balance sheet in casm.

Look at the larger operational inefficiency

Delta has 100,000 employees for 1000 aircraft. 100:1
Air Canada has 40,000 employees for 200 aircraft 200:1.

Add on all the wasted money at Air Canada from government/regulator bullshit, bilingualism, crown corporation baggage, taxes, and just the general bad luck of operating a business in present day Canada...

T

[Flyboy736]

In all honesty, shouldn't Air Canada be able to whoop Delta with their vastly cheaper costs on pilots & labour?

Aren't Air Canada pilots the cheapest North American legacy pilots there is?? Shouldn't the company be able to take advantage of this and just be able to out price Delta and their much superior (and costly) pilot contract?

Pilots make up a miniscule amount of the cost of operations. Between Delta and Air Canada it's a rounding error on the balance sheet in casm.

Look at the larger operational inefficiency

Delta has 100,000 employees for 1000 aircraft. 100:1
Air Canada has 40,000 employees for 200 aircraft 200:1.

Add on all the wasted money at Air Canada from government/regulator bullshit, bilingualism, crown corporation baggage, taxes, and just the general bad luck of operating a business in present day Canada...

That's not a very fair comparison. For starters you forgot Rouge which should be included. Delta is NB heavy while AC is WB heavy.a 777 going to Delhi has double the pilots and at least quadruple the FA compared to Delta on their 737

[jpilot77]

So with Rouge that’s 247 fins so that gets you down to 162 employees per fin still a big difference with Delta’s ratio.

[3rdWorldClassPilot]

In all honesty, shouldn't Air Canada be able to whoop Delta with their vastly cheaper costs on pilots & labour?

Aren't Air Canada pilots the cheapest North American legacy pilots there is?? Shouldn't the company be able to take advantage of this and just be able to out price Delta and their much superior (and costly) pilot contract?

Pilots make up a miniscule amount of the cost of operations. Between Delta and Air Canada it's a rounding error on the balance sheet in casm.

Look at the larger operational inefficiency

Delta has 100,000 employees for 1000 aircraft. 100:1
Air Canada has 40,000 employees for 200 aircraft 200:1.

Add on all the wasted money at Air Canada from government/regulator bullshit, bilingualism, crown corporation baggage, taxes, and just the general bad luck of operating a business in present day Canada...

So let me get this straight...

ACPA needed to negotiate scope concessions because we needed to lower labour costs so Air Canada could create Rouge so as to compete.

But for flying around professional sports teams, pilot salaries don't matter because its the French language that is driving up costs?



ACPA type excuses are indeed making a comeback

[thepoors]

Those Delta 75s often parked at the north end in YYZ are actually owned/leased by the NBA. Delta just operates the aircraft for them.

[altiplano]

In all honesty, shouldn't Air Canada be able to whoop Delta with their vastly cheaper costs on pilots & labour?

Aren't Air Canada pilots the cheapest North American legacy pilots there is?? Shouldn't the company be able to take advantage of this and just be able to out price Delta and their much superior (and costly) pilot contract?

Pilots make up a miniscule amount of the cost of operations. Between Delta and Air Canada it's a rounding error on the balance sheet in casm.

Look at the larger operational inefficiency

Delta has 100,000 employees for 1000 aircraft. 100:1
Air Canada has 40,000 employees for 200 aircraft 200:1.

Add on all the wasted money at Air Canada from government/regulator bullshit, bilingualism, crown corporation baggage, taxes, and just the general bad luck of operating a business in present day Canada...

So let me get this straight...

ACPA needed to negotiate scope concessions because we needed to lower labour costs so Air Canada could create Rouge so as to compete.

But for flying around professional sports teams, pilot salaries don't matter because its the French language that is driving up costs?



ACPA type excuses are indeed making a comeback

Jesus. Now it's Dumb and Dumbererer...

I'm making the exact opposite argument.

Our salary doesn't make or break the competitiveness of the airline. Whether we're paid more or less, if the airline can't compete on cost that's on them, that's all their bullshit costs that they can't or refuse to control because pilot labour cost is barely a drop in the scope of it all.

[flying4dollars]

The thread derailment metrics on avcanada need to be studied. I swear you guys spend way too much energy arguing with each other.

Yes, Jetz is generally nice. Yes, we fly the BlueJays.

Next thread.

[Old fella]

The thread derailment metrics on avcanada need to be studied. I swear you guys spend way too much energy arguing with each other.

Yes, Jetz is generally nice. Yes, we fly the BlueJays.

Next thread.

Kinda sorry I brought the subject up even though it was kinda point of interest for me. I wanted to post couple of more questions on JETZ but naw…. couldn’t be bothered now as the drift certainly went 90 degrees from the intended thread. But whatever…… as expected.
Thanks for your knowledgeable responses(and TheStig), certainly appears you enjoy that type of work.

Cheers

[The Brantford Boomer]

NO WAIT COME BACK