The 737-600

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:33 am

Seems WestJet are recieving these at a good pace lately, whats the plan, and total amount of 600's coming?

Do they really save any money over the 7? I mean it's 16 or so less seats, is the fuel burn that much better when compared to the cost to make them worthwhile, I assume so.

Also the 600 is almost useless on longhaul trips because of the tiny baggage area, normally they will almost bulk out with 100 people onboard.

CanadaEH · Post by **CanadaEH** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:02 pm

We've recieved all the -600's we had on order: 13.

Good luck getting a real difinitive answer on the rest of what you asked.

195psi · Post by **195psi** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:14 pm

Also the 600 is almost useless on longhaul trips because of the tiny baggage area, normally they will almost bulk out with 100 people onboard.

Is this another area of your expertise? You seem so well informed in so many areas.
Like you say, it's useless. What would a bunch actual pilots, execs and bean counters know about making a decison of what type to buy.
The really should have asked the de-icer guy.
Stupid on their part I guess.

[/quote]

po'dcjer · Post by **po'dcjer** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:16 pm

well said 195psi well said...

flystraightin · Post by **flystraightin** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:56 pm

I gotta agree with av8rpei on the small baggage space thing...we seem to be getting more and more 600s, yet our loads either stay the same or increase which makes the 600s a bitch to pack without a pit #1.

I dont know whats happening with the 600s, one day I hear they are planning on being the APB winglet launch customer, the next day I hear they're not working out with seat/mile costs so they're being sold to SAS. We'll have to wait and see...

CanadaEH · Post by **CanadaEH** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:16 pm

They are not getting winglets. That's confirmed publicly by Clive during our last conference call (Q2). LiveTV is rumored to still be a go but stay tuned during the first week of October as all rumors have pointed to that as the go or no-go time frame.

giligan · Post by **giligan** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:47 pm

It is my understanding that there is trouble with the TV on the -600.
As I understand the antenna buble disrupts the airflow over the fuselage and as the fuselage is shorter the air is still turbulent as it passes over the tail.
gil

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:30 pm

195psi wrote:
Also the 600 is almost useless on longhaul trips because of the tiny baggage area, normally they will almost bulk out with 100 people onboard.

The really should have asked the de-icer guy.
Stupid on their part I guess.

[/quote]

Take it easy their on your ego, don't hurt yourself.

Ask any rampie, its a fact, I've seen it bulked out 3 times with 100 people on it, without any Cargo, last winter. Not saying its a bad plane, but even the 500 has bigger pits, I assume the lack of front pit space is due to larger avionics? Just guessing.

YYCVOR · Post by **YYCVOR** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:09 am

The bulked out issue on the 736 has been beaten to death and it does happen system wide from time to time.

However I dont understand how your saying they get bulked out with only 100 up top. Perhaps its just a issue of stacking or not knowing how to overflow your pit space wisely. Even if there is the full 119 up top, that only translates to about 145 bags(ish). With about 55 bags up front, are u saying that u cant get 90 bags in to pits 4, 5 and 6?

WestJet tends to not use the -600 on long haul's are kept mostly to the western triangle besides the odd flight here and there.

Trevor · Post by **Trevor** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:07 am

CanadaEH wrote:They are not getting winglets. That's confirmed publicly by Clive during our last conference call (Q2). LiveTV is rumored to still be a go but stay tuned during the first week of October as all rumors have pointed to that as the go or no-go time frame.

It'll be some time before the LiveTV equipment is installed, and stability is the least of the concerns. Unfortunately I'm not at liberty to say more.

The APB winglets were cancelled as you stated, mostly for cost reasons.

As for fleet size av8, aircraft 615 (already delivered) will be the last -600 to join the fleet, and probably the last -600 ever built.

The shorter length of the forward fuselage and the increased size of the aft E&E bay is what accounts for the missing pit.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:45 pm

YYCVOR wrote:The bulked out issue on the 736 has been beaten to death and it does happen system wide from time to time.

However I dont understand how your saying they get bulked out with only 100 up top. Perhaps its just a issue of stacking or not knowing how to overflow your pit space wisely. Even if there is the full 119 up top, that only translates to about 145 bags(ish). With about 55 bags up front, are u saying that u cant get 90 bags in to pits 4, 5 and 6?

WestJet tends to not use the -600 on long haul's are kept mostly to the western triangle besides the odd flight here and there.

I think you just contradicted yourself there.

I can fully imagine the 600 with 119 people onboard would only have 145 bags, of regular size.

You have to understand out on the east coast the majority of people are flying to YYC or further, and a good load of those each flight are fellas headin out to the oil fields for work. Thus even in the off-season 119 people will equal 150 bags or so, but those bags are almost always ungodly massive hockey bags.

When you combine that with sometimes idiotic loadplans we're issued (Like trying to plan 75 bags in pit 3 on the 600, with 20 bags planned for Pit 2)

In the fall season, even the 700 with 136 people on it, out of my base will have close to 200 if not over 200 bags, and we make it fit, the 700 pit space is just about perfect for the size of the airplane, the 800 is oversized (We've put 210 bags in pit #4 alone before)

At Christmas time out of my base I've seen initial TOC's of 280 bags, so yes people fly quite heavily out of the east coast, not just in count but in baggage size, throw in the odd surfboard or bike, motorized wheelchair and you're loadplan goes all to hell.

By the way don't mention pit space and packing methods, you're talking to someone who spent hundreds of flights loading 108 peoples bags into the belly of an F100, which by the way makes the 600 look massive.

(See loading the belly laying on your back)

Trickkles · Post by **Trickkles** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:38 pm

Just adding some additional points, those crazy loadplans are required because for some strange reason the 600 tends to be tail heavy. You have to have massive weight in the front pits or load all the people at the front of the plane which stupid and I mean stupid CSA's overide the computer. I've seen loadplans calling for 100 bags upfront and nothing and I mean nothing in the back, just to squeak the 'dot into the envelope'.

The 600 is a Loadplan nightmare!!!

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:50 am

Interesting, thanks for that, I'd love to see someone jam 100 bags into the front of a 600 though! It gives me a greater understanding regarding the 600, from what I recall I was never given any direction different than the 700/800 regarding required W&B issues.

I mean I know we follow Loadplans...plan... but it wouldn't hurt to keep the rampies in the loop on that.

flystraightin · Post by **flystraightin** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:26 pm

av8rpei wrote:Interesting, thanks for that, I'd love to see someone jam 100 bags into the front of a 600 though! It gives me a greater understanding regarding the 600, from what I recall I was never given any direction different than the 700/800 regarding required W&B issues.

I mean I know we follow Loadplans...plan... but it wouldn't hurt to keep the rampies in the loop on that.

it's on the contract ground handlers training DVD..

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:30 pm

flystraightin wrote:
av8rpei wrote:Interesting, thanks for that, I'd love to see someone jam 100 bags into the front of a 600 though! It gives me a greater understanding regarding the 600, from what I recall I was never given any direction different than the 700/800 regarding required W&B issues.

I mean I know we follow Loadplans...plan... but it wouldn't hurt to keep the rampies in the loop on that.
it's on the contract ground handlers training DVD..

Unfortunately I don't think those DVD's have made it to me yet, since I'm P/T I'm obviously out of the loop on that.

Even still if loadplan said strap em to the wings, that's what we'd do.

flystraightin · Post by **flystraightin** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:26 pm

really? I'd call them up and ask what they're smokin'

Smitty · Post by **Smitty** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:03 am

Gotta pipe in on this one...

Flew with a dude from flight technical and the official word is...
we have only ever bumped bags once since the introduction of the -600.

This is a rumour that may have got a tad outta hand.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:15 am

Since I've seen bags bumped twice off the 600 just in my small base, I'm calling BS.

DA900 · Post by **DA900** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:35 pm

Does the 600 have less baggage space then the 200?

Smitty · Post by **Smitty** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:06 pm

I am only relayin' info from the guys who's job it is to monitor such things. I would hardly call this fellow a BSer.

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:26 pm

obviously Smitty, a part-time rampie at a single airport is a far better source of reliable information than a guy who monitors every plane for every location westjet flies.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:52 am

Four1oh wrote:obviously Smitty, a part-time rampie at a single airport is a far better source of reliable information than a guy who monitors every plane for every location westjet flies.

So you're telling me I'm not telling the truth?

I've personally taken extra bags off of a 737-600 because they just would not fit.

MS737 · Post by **MS737** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:28 pm

Av8rpei, would that be WestJet's 600 you are talking about?

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:57 pm

600 is a 600, but yes... only ones I've ever seen.

Stampede1 · Post by **Stampede1** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:51 pm

This is a bit off topic, but it is still about the 600. Apparently we do want to put live tv on the aircraft, but due to it being short, not only would we have to move the anti-collision light on top, but we would have to move a few antennas on top as well, which means re-certification and that costs money.

rumor has it that we are now the largest -600 operater in the world.
We did try to cancel the order early, but due to the fact that boeing had already started building parts for them and no other airline wants them, we had to take them.