Medevac?

flyguy2b · Post by **flyguy2b** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:03 pm

I'm trying to find a reference in the CAR's or the AIP as to the term
medevac and when an aircraft can call it such. Seems like its a bit of a loose term and some companies tend to overuse it.

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:36 pm

If you're referring to returning empty and still filing medevac then yes this is overuse in a way, however think of it this way. If your mom was sick suddenly, and the crew is busy holding at TORON for their flow time and can't get to the hospital in time to save her you'd be pissed right?

Rowdy · Post by **Rowdy** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:31 pm

I'd say that even on the return empty flight they should be considered a priority as there would be less coverage.. and perhaps a longer wait when time could possibly make the difference in certain cases.

Whats required to file as MEDEVAC?

Snowgoose · Post by **Snowgoose** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:41 pm

There's no NAVCAN fees when you file medevac.

Connor M · Post by **Connor M** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:59 pm

Our company's guideline is to file medevac when there is patient on board or enroute to pick one up. Other times we file normally.

gr8gazu · Post by **gr8gazu** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:17 pm

Are medevac flights no longer classified? A lot of medical flights are merely patient transfers and should not receive any more priority than any other flight.

Back (in the good old days

) when I did medical flights, only priority 1 flights were filed as MEDEVAC. In other words, your flight was life saving in nature.

The vast majority of patients have already been stabilized and in a lot of cases, priority isn't really an issue.

"Bandaid" may be able to provide some helpful insight on this...

hazatude · Post by **hazatude** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:18 pm

Can I claim my hangover as a medevac?

Pugster · Post by **Pugster** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:18 pm

Generally I'd file Medevac whenever we were transporting a patient or if we were repositioning for a pending trip.

Sometimes we'd elect not to file Medevac when we had a patient return on board and we knew that the extra time wouldn't be critical. As well, because of the abuse of the term "Medevac" that has happened, I'd personally ask for priority if we had a patient on board where time was extremely important (preggers about to burst, critical patients, etc.).

Abusing Medevac status won't make you a favorite among other Medevac operators, that much I guarantee!

gr8gazu · Post by **gr8gazu** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:33 pm

hazatude wrote:Can I claim my hangover as a medevac?

Chronic conditions don't warrant "medevac" classification...

flyinhigh · Post by **flyinhigh** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:40 pm

Your suppose to file medivac ONLY when the situation warrants it, as in if it is a code 4/priority 1, there is no other need for it other than abusing the system.

Period

Starsky · Post by **Starsky** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:40 pm

In Ontario, operators are only supposed to file medevac if they are carrying or enroute to pick-up a code 1 or 2 patient. The lower priority code 3 and 4 patients should not be using medevac priority.

G whiz · Post by **G whiz** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:54 pm

Starsky wrote:In Ontario, operators are only supposed to file medevac if they are carrying or enroute to pick-up a code 1 or 2 patient. The lower priority code 3 and 4 patients should not be using medevac priority.

That's actually backwards. Priority in Ontario according to MEDCOM is the same as used for land ambulances with the code 4 being the highest priority and code 1 being a simple patient transfer.

We were only permitted to file "MEDEVAC" when on a code 4 or positioning to pick up a code 4.

Ambulance Driver · Post by **Ambulance Driver** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:24 pm

It should only be use if priority is need, ie a code 4. Going to YWG as medevac will get you no priority any more because some have over used it there, you have to tell ATC that you are a priority medevac, which is what filling as medevac is for.

Airtids · Post by **Airtids** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:48 pm

gr8gazu wrote:
hazatude wrote:Can I claim my hangover as a medevac?
Chronic conditions don't warrant "medevac" classification...

Seriously, that's one of the funniest things I've read on here for a while. Made me snort my 'beverage'. Thanks!!:lol:

Hazatude, I gotta admit, when you first showed up here at Avcanada, I kind of rolled my eyes, gritted my teeth, and figured soon you'd just go away. I'm really growing to like you, and look forward to your "interesting" but always humorous contributions. Thanks for doing your part to keep the site light.

I think you DO deserve a good woman. I'll write you a reference letter for Chantal, if you'd like.

I may have been back in the "old days" too, but we'd call ourselves medevac anytime it seemed there was a rush to get there, and take all the advantages we could. If there was no reason to hurry, we'd fly just like everyone else was supposed to.

hazatude · Post by **hazatude** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:58 pm

Thanks brother!

You've got the duct tape...I've got the plans!

Flybabe · Post by **Flybabe** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:43 am

In our world, we don't question the attendants if the patient is "critical" or not - they have contracted us for medevac purposes. We fly the planes, it's not up to us to determine what the status of the patient is.

If the patient is extremely critical they will usually advise if there are imminent concerns - slow pressurization requirements, sensitivity to turbulence, whatever.

Additionally, the delay of one aircraft can easily affect the launch of a subsequent medevac.

We have a patient on board - we are medevac.

Dusty 3 · Post by **Dusty 3** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:47 am

As far as medevac's in BC go. if you are P1, you go as "medevac" status. It doesn't matter if you are going empty to pick up a patient. Though the aircarft doesn't return home under "medevac" status emtpy. It's regular non medevac status.

Regular patient transfers don't require "medevac" status, why would you need to delcare that when you are just moving a non priority patient. 99% chance is that your going to have to wait for 10 minutes when you arrive at the destination airport anyway for the ambulance.

I know this topic always comes up, it's generally because one company wants to get out of navcan fees, or just wants to save a few minutes on the filght.

The a.i.p definition is fairly vague, and as far as BC medevacs go. The provincial government has said when they want the term used, and when not to use it.

it's seems to be a topic that's alwas up for discussion.

jetway · Post by **jetway** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:49 am

Medevac flights are whenever a Medical company is doing a flight...BUT!!! As far as filing or calling yourself "superfly 109 MEDEVAC" when you are (on your way to pick up) anything but a code four is BS!!! if you have a person on board going to get their cracked diabetic heel checked out at a 1130 appointment, then NO NOT MEDEVAC...but if you have someone on board with say, a severed foot on board, yes, medevac. Anything absolutely time critical should be filed and designated MEDEVAC, other wise, NO.
I hate hearing "superfly109 medevac" and then see them at the FBO while one BLS medic gets out, with a laughing, cognitive patient - stretcher or not, get wheeled into the ambulance. I feel like my "reduce speed" request or my holding or going around was a waste of not only my time, but my clients time.
However, when I see ALS and BLS medics, with an obvious emergency on board...or Anything with an incubator squeeze out of one of the planes, then by golly, I'd hold forever if I had to to let them in.
Do Not Abuse the MEDEVAC WORD, boys and girls!! use your common sense and your Medic's knowledge and realize that even though you are performing a medical evacuation, it may not be necessary to file and call yourselves MEDEVAC. Sometimes the transfers are done by air, only because this country is short land ambulance staff and can't drive from Muskoka to Toronto...so, the province, not the requesting party (IE: Muskoka) pays for the plane.
I once heard an AC going into YWG upgrade their status to MEDEVAC enroute, and by the sounds of the pilot's voice, I do believe it was a warranted upgrade....

confuzed · Post by **confuzed** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:59 am

Ahhhh....here we go again with the MEDEVAC term abuse. This topic was beaten to death (literally) a while ago. It used to drive me nuts while when I was flying Air Ambulance and hearing people abuse the term. That or getting YWG center asking me if I was priority or not? I basically said in a nice way, that's why I'm calling myself MEDEVAC sir. Anyway, here's a link to the previous thread where this topic was brutalized. Cheers

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... sc&start=0

Go Guns · Post by **Go Guns** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:16 am

Here in BC I regularly have ATC go out of their way to accomadate us on a Medevac. They never question the priority, they just make sure we get from A to B as quickly as we can. It makes me glad the term is not abused out here.

goldeneagle · Post by **goldeneagle** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:33 pm

I've been questioned on this a couple of times, especially when landing in yvr, and the 'patient' jumps out of the plane, sprints thru the fbo, and jumps in a cab. Got into it once with folks arriving in a contract medevac plane at the same time, carrying body parts. The pilot started yelling at me about the criticality of the parts they were carrying, and the time sensative nature of the body parts. I just looked over, and commented very politely 'those parts wont do any good if the recipient isn't at the hospital in time for the transplant, and that fella you saw sprinting over to the cab is gonna have a new liver in a few hours'.

In that case, it's not about the critical nature of the passengers on board, it's about the critical timeframes involved. Altho the passenger may well be walking and talking (in this case sprinting), the organs have been harvested, and the clock is ticking. Nobody questions that the airplane arriving with the organs is a 'medevac', yet, in reality, the organ recipient is more time critical than those organs. The organs just have to arrive at the hospital in time for the second half of the transplant operation, the recipient has to be there considerably earlier.

A few years ago, I made the mistake of not using the medevac designator on a retrieval flight like that. The bc interior was something like 7000 overcast, actually quite a nice day. When we taxiid out, there we sat, one of them 1900's full of kids up front was inbound, so we couldn't get a departure clearance. A couple minutes later I heard them on the radio, calling 'airport in sight', with an eta of 12 minutes. Waited, waited, but, didn't hear those magic 'cancel the ifr' words, and finally I got frustrated, got on with the FSS told them to add the medevac to the callsign and request a visual departure.

The lesson was well learned that day. In this modern age of automotons driving to SOP's, do not expect any common courtesy from the other airplanes. Put the medevac designator on when you file. When we arrive at the other end, and the 'patient' walks to a cab, I really dont give a shit what the other pilots on the ground think. Not all time critical patients are laying on a stretcher with hoses poking out of them. There are perfectly valid reasons that can make a walking and talking patient time critical. In this day and age, you cant expect common courtesy from SOP slaves when it comes to helping one expedite IFR departures from smaller places (years ago, it was the norm, even 737 inbound would cancel so the little guys could get going). Now we just formalize it in advance by filing as a medevac.

25 years ago I would have considered that an abuse of the system, filing medevac with a walking/talking patient to ensure you get priority on the departure. Today, the sky is full of airplanes with folks up front that are more concerned with regurgitating SOP documents than they are in making the whole system work well for everybody, and some of them have even got management that forced the issue by writing 'thou shalt not cancel ifr' in those SOP documents. Its unrealistic to expect others to use common sense and a little courtesy to help expedite departures, so there is little choice but to force the issue. If the folks in the back are time critical for medical reasons, that's why they invented the medevac add-on to your callsign. It's a formal request for priority in the system. It does not mean the pax in the back are bleeding and on the verge of dying, it means they are time critical for medical reasons.

bandaid · Post by **bandaid** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:38 pm

Thanks GE,
You made a point that I was going to but put it much better from a pilots perspective. Just because he or she is walking does not mean they are not really emergent.
Hmmmm, my 1000 post went by without fanfare, dang. Guess I need to post my ugly kisser on here to get fan fare eh Haz

looproll · Post by **looproll** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:51 pm

goldeneagle, amen to that

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:30 pm

Jeesses, you write good stuff Golden-one.

SOP Slaves....

Gotta love that one.

I thank a higher power every day I no longer have to live in that world.

Ever wonder what a SOP slave would do when something goes wrong and they can't find a SOP to cover it?

hazatude · Post by **hazatude** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:33 pm

bandaid wrote:Thanks GE,
You made a point that I was going to but put it much better from a pilots perspective. Just because he or she is walking does not mean they are not really emergent.
Hmmmm, my 1000 post went by without fanfare, dang. Guess I need to post my ugly kisser on here to get fan fare eh Haz

Congratulations Bandaid